14 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Well its not his name, so it just comes across a bit insulting. Which confused me as you weren't slagging him off!

I don't think it was at all under Lampard. My impression is the players were consulted and listened to when the results slid. I reckon Azpilicueta and Cech would be the only voices the board fully pay attention to in and around the squad, and I think if you heard both of them wanted Lampard gone you'd think it was the right decision. My suspicion is they both fell on that side and that was the "player power".

The rest is just tabloid fodder. Do you really think the board is going to sack Lampard because Rudiger Jorginho and Alonso wanted him out? Not a chance. 

 

I obviously don't believe the Tabloid Fodder, but as you rightly say, Player Power would be represented by a few senior players, Azpi for sure, Possibly Giroud, but these players are the voice for the likes of Jorginho (Hooray) and others that were obviously disgruntled as was apparent by the way they were performing. My main point was that with Competition for places at a premium given the size of the squad, does TT want players that are going to stab him in the back as soon as he leaves them out for a few games?

10 hours ago, haviet1 said:

In today's world, WINNING is everything.

Player power only exists when you stop winning.

Seems that way though would further refine to say it is the money and this is connected with  FFP.

This is why if we look like missing out on the CL the axe will most likely fall and also if the style turns away the punters that will impact and lastly of course if something seriously damages the club like Evagate or reputationally worse the axe will fall.

Reputation risk can damage advertising revenues.

4 hours ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I obviously don't believe the Tabloid Fodder, but as you rightly say, Player Power would be represented by a few senior players, Azpi for sure, Possibly Giroud, but these players are the voice for the likes of Jorginho (Hooray) and others that were obviously disgruntled as was apparent by the way they were performing. My main point was that with Competition for places at a premium given the size of the squad, does TT want players that are going to stab him in the back as soon as he leaves them out for a few games?

With Jorginho in the starting lineup we haven't lost in 17 games so it's not just him doing a decent job under Tuchel, he was doing a decent job under Lampard as well this season when he played.

I think at this point you would need to show how did a Chelsea player back-stab Lampard, I see no evidence of it... It's not like Kepa deliberately let in goals, it's not like Jorginho deliberately missed a penalty... Or are we missing something? It's a stretch to think that a player that is unhappy for not playing - will also be unhappy when getting to play, in general I think that a player wants to take his chance in the best way when given.

If Tuchel stays as our manager for the next season as well he can sell whoever he wants and I think that there is nothing a player can do about it... It's not really in the favor of any player to perform bad on purpose for multiple managers anyway.

16 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

With Jorginho in the starting lineup we haven't lost in 17 games 

You keep on saying that as if it had any meaning whatsoever,  The only matches we have lost in the last year were the ones where I didn't put my trousers on before I put my t-shirt on.  Has exactly the same bearing on the results.

 

Edited February 10, 20215 yr by yorkleyblue

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

You keep on saying that as if it had any meaning whatsoever,  The only matches we have lost in the last year were the ones where I didn't put my trousers on before I put my t-shirt on.  Has exactly the same bearing on the results.

 

First of all that's not true because any player involved has an effect on the team, it has nothing to do with superstition or whatever you're implying...

Second and mainly - he's saying that some players clearly performed worse under Lampard, stabbed him in the back by their performances - and are now playing suddenly much better.
I'm saying that in this case there is no evidence of that happening since with this particular player we have managed not to lose a game in a while, while Lampard was our manager! If he wanted to backstab Lampard he was clearly doing the worst possible job! We would be able to see somewhere how worse he was but all I see is the same player doing the same thing under 3 different managers for 3 seasons now.

Third, Lampard isn't stupid!!! He would have seen if a player is playing worse for no real reason, why would he in that case decide to start Rudiger against Leicester when his job was under threat, if he knew that Rudiger was going to backstab him by playing worse?! It makes no sense! If anything Rudiger scored an own goal for his new manager that likes him, does that mean that he is backstabbing Tuchel? See, it makes no sense.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

First of all that's not true because any player involved has an effect on the team, it has nothing to do with superstition or whatever you're implying...

Second and mainly - he's saying that some players clearly performed worse under Lampard, stabbed him in the back by their performances - and are now playing suddenly much better.
I'm saying that in this case there is no evidence of that happening since with this particular player we have managed not to lose a game in a while, while Lampard was our manager! If he wanted to backstab Lampard he was clearly doing the worst possible job! We would be able to see somewhere how worse he was but all I see is the same player doing the same thing under 3 different managers for 3 seasons now.

Third, Lampard isn't stupid!!! He would have seen if a player is playing worse for no real reason, why would he in that case decide to start Rudiger against Leicester when his job was under threat, if he knew that Rudiger was going to backstab him by playing worse?! It makes no sense! If anything Rudiger scored an own goal for his new manager that likes him, does that mean that he is backstabbing Tuchel? See, it makes no sense.

 

 

As usual, you miss the point by as much, if not more than, Havertz trying to pass to a team-mate, Werner attempting to shoot or most of Jorginho's penalty attempts when it matters.

The fact that X result occurred on some occasions when Jorginho was playing does not mean that the result was caused by Jorginho playing.

See https://towardsdatascience.com/why-correlation-does-not-imply-causation-5b99790df07e

If Jorginho playing was the ONLY variable in all of those matches it STILL wouldn't be a causative fact.  If your point was valid, we would win every match that Jorginho plays.  Wouldn't that be nice?

Sunglasses and ice-creams.

23 hours ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

for example from players like Kovacic and Giorginho.

That's mostly due to TT's tactics and new formation. He's actually playing them together and the team has a defensive balance with the back 3. 

We saw Kovacic in the midfield 3 under Sarri and he was average for a lot of it. 

3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

As usual, you miss the point by as much, if not more than, Havertz trying to pass to a team-mate, Werner attempting to shoot or most of Jorginho's penalty attempts when it matters.

The fact that X result occurred on some occasions when Jorginho was playing does not mean that the result was caused by Jorginho playing.

See https://towardsdatascience.com/why-correlation-does-not-imply-causation-5b99790df07e

If Jorginho playing was the ONLY variable in all of those matches it STILL wouldn't be a causative fact.  If your point was valid, we would win every match that Jorginho plays.  Wouldn't that be nice?

Sunglasses and ice-creams.

I never said that Jorginho was the only variable but what you said is that he is no variable at all - now that's being plain stupid isn't it?

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

With Jorginho in the starting lineup we haven't lost in 17 games

You really do pick and hold stats when it suits you. Last season I was telling you the same thing with Kante, how we had lost more games with Kante in the side than without, and you couldn't cope with it. Now you're using the same stat with Jorginho... 

Just now, Slojo said:

You really do pick and hold stats when it suits you. Last season I was telling you the same thing with Kante, how we had lost more games with Kante in the side than without, and you couldn't cope with it. Now you're using the same stat with Jorginho... 

Show me how did Jorginho backstab Lampard before taking things outside of their context of what I'm saying, thanks in advance.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Show me how did Jorginho backstab Lampard before taking things outside of their context of what I'm saying, thanks in advance.

I said nothing about that. I'm saying you pick and choose stats when it's convenient for you, and when you don't like them you dismiss them. That stat you keep regurgitating about Jorginho, is pretty much the same what I was saying about Kante last season and you wouldn't have it. Kept going on endless tirades of paragraphs of why I'm wrong, Kovacic is sh*t, and Kante is playing his bestest football ever! blah blah blah

Just now, Slojo said:

I said nothing about that. I'm saying you pick and choose stats when it's convenient for you, and when you don't like them you dismiss them. That stat you keep regurgitating about Jorginho, is pretty much the same what I was saying about Kante last season and you wouldn't have it. Kept going on endless tirades of paragraphs of why I'm wrong, Kovacic is sh*t, and Kante is playing his bestest football ever! blah blah blah

No I don't, I tell you show me where did Jorginho backstab Lampard otherwise see what I'm saying and why I'm saying it, you don't get to complain if you can't prove me wrong.

What a genius, "Either you prove me wrong on something you haven't even said, or you don't get to complain about that thing you're not complaining about". 

f**k you got me there! 

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I never said that Jorginho was the only variable but what you said is that he is no variable at all - now that's being plain stupid isn't it?

Where did I say that?  Try the quote function.

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

What a genius, "Either you prove me wrong on something you haven't even said, or you don't get to complain about that thing you're not complaining about". 

f**k you got me there! 

Who was it that said "Never enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed man"?

1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

Where did I say that?  Try the quote function.

I really want to know what this bloke sees, is there a virus on his computer that just translates all our text to "Jorginho is a back stabbing w**ker" per every sentence we make? That would be the most reasonable explanation for why he's like this. 

Just now, yorkleyblue said:

Where did I say that?  Try the quote function.

With Jorginho in the starting lineup we haven't lost in 17 games 

"You keep on saying that as if it had any meaning whatsoever,  The only matches we have lost in the last year were the ones where I didn't put my trousers on before I put my t-shirt on.  Has exactly the same bearing on the results."

So it doesn't matter what player is out there on the pitch according to you? Where did I say that Jorginho is the ONLY variable - stop making up stuff, I tell you very openly show me where did Jorginho backstab Lampard when we lost only 1 game with him in the starting lineup? How did he make his life as our manager more difficult?

You can't because that's simply not the truth.

 

Just now, Slojo said:

I really want to know what this bloke sees, is there a virus on his computer that just translates all our text to "Jorginho is a back stabbing w**ker" per every sentence we make? That would be the most reasonable explanation for why he's like this. 

Stop taking things out of context, read what people have said who people quoted first if you don't understand. A person said that some players and Jorginho were unhappy with Lampard and played worse under him and he was asking how will Tuchel do when players backstab him as soon as he stops playing them - I pointed out that Jorginho under Lampard had a decent run of games as a starter - there is no evidence of him backstabbing Lampard. 

You just took out half a sentence because it bothers you for some reason - that's not my problem at all. I know what I said is true.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Stop taking things out of context, read what people have said who people quoted first if you don't understand. A person said that some players and Jorginho were unhappy with Lampard and played worse under him and he was asking how will Tuchel do when players backstab him as soon as he stops playing them - I pointed out that Jorginho under Lampard had a decent run of games as a starter - there is no evidence of him backstabbing Lampard. 

You just took out half a sentence because it bothers you for some reason - that's not my problem at all. I know what I said is true.

Because I don't care about the other stuff you said? You keep bringing up this stat about Jorginho, Yorkley pointed it out, so have many others. That's the only part of your post I'm responding to, I've made that clear, I don't need to respond to your full post here. 

Just now, Slojo said:

Because I don't care about the other stuff you said? You keep bringing up this stat about Jorginho, Yorkley pointed it out, so have many others. That's the only part of your post I'm responding to, I've made that clear, I don't need to respond to your full post here. 

Why do you think that you can simply take out a part of a sentence and make it a totally different thing then, you making out your own little story about something that isn't even the issue nor the point is irrelevant to what I'm discussing about.

If you don't care about what I said, don't discuss about it. But don't make a problem where there is none.

Yorkey pointed out that it makes no difference if Jorginho played or not - according to him the factor of Jorginho playing is equal to himself having pants on or not or whatever he said - this is simply not true, full stop.

 

12 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

With Jorginho in the starting lineup we haven't lost in 17 games 

"You keep on saying that as if it had any meaning whatsoever,  The only matches we have lost in the last year were the ones where I didn't put my trousers on before I put my t-shirt on.  Has exactly the same bearing on the results."

So it doesn't matter what player is out there on the pitch according to you? Where did I say that Jorginho is the ONLY variable - stop making up stuff, I tell you very openly show me where did Jorginho backstab Lampard when we lost only 1 game with him in the starting lineup? How did he make his life as our manager more difficult?

You can't because that's simply not the truth.

 

Again with the very selective quoting.  You accused me of "but what you said is that he is no variable at all".  Nowhere did I say that and when I ask for you to quote me saying that you quote yourself arguing with yourself.

I've said this before, you get a lot of leeway because you are being prattish in a language that is not your first language, but that is starting to wear thin now.

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Yorkey pointed out that it makes no difference if Jorginho played or not

Getting boring now.  I did not say that, I said that your infantile extrapolation of two coincident facts was correlation, not causation and your imputing us not losing to the fact that Jorginho played those matches was illogical at the very best.

1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

 

Again with the very selective quoting.  You accused me of "but what you said is that he is no variable at all".  Nowhere did I say that and when I ask for you to quote me saying that you quote yourself arguing with yourself.

I've said this before, you get a lot of leeway because you are being prattish in a language that is not your first language, but that is starting to wear thin now.

You literally said that Jorginho playing has no meaning at all to our results. You literally said that Jorginho playing for us on the pitch is equal to you putting pants on before putting your shirt on - that it makes no difference for our results. If you truly belive that you're just stupid, it has nothing to do with me.

16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

First of all that's not true because any player involved has an effect on the team, it has nothing to do with superstition or whatever you're implying...

Second and mainly - he's saying that some players clearly performed worse under Lampard, stabbed him in the back by their performances - and are now playing suddenly much better.
I'm saying that in this case there is no evidence of that happening since with this particular player we have managed not to lose a game in a while, while Lampard was our manager! If he wanted to backstab Lampard he was clearly doing the worst possible job! We would be able to see somewhere how worse he was but all I see is the same player doing the same thing under 3 different managers for 3 seasons now.

Third, Lampard isn't stupid!!! He would have seen if a player is playing worse for no real reason, why would he in that case decide to start Rudiger against Leicester when his job was under threat, if he knew that Rudiger was going to backstab him by playing worse?! It makes no sense! If anything Rudiger scored an own goal for his new manager that likes him, does that mean that he is backstabbing Tuchel? See, it makes no sense.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

With Jorginho in the starting lineup we haven't lost in 17 games so it's not just him doing a decent job under Tuchel, he was doing a decent job under Lampard as well this season when he played.

I think at this point you would need to show how did a Chelsea player back-stab Lampard, I see no evidence of it... It's not like Kepa deliberately let in goals, it's not like Jorginho deliberately missed a penalty... Or are we missing something? It's a stretch to think that a player that is unhappy for not playing - will also be unhappy when getting to play, in general I think that a player wants to take his chance in the best way when given.

If Tuchel stays as our manager for the next season as well he can sell whoever he wants and I think that there is nothing a player can do about it... It's not really in the favor of any player to perform bad on purpose for multiple managers anyway.

That's neither here or there though is it, it doesn't mean that he's been performing well does it, I personally feel he was dog sh*t under Lampard, has played well first two games for TT and was poor again against Sheff Utd.

Like it or not, certain players downed tools for Lampard

17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You literally said that Jorginho playing has no meaning at all to our results. You literally said that Jorginho playing for us on the pitch is equal to you putting pants on before putting your shirt on - that it makes no difference for our results. If you truly belive that you're just stupid, it has nothing to do with me.

Nobody could possibly be as stupid as to not understand what I said, so therefore yiu are just being a typically argumentative troll.  You apepar to get into arguments quite a lot with lots of different people in here, and I susoect that is because schools are not open and you are a twat.  I've done with this, so off on ignore you go.