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Team rebuild required


ozboy

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To me its obvious that CFC squad is never going to cut it at the moment. Unlike Jack I don't pay 200 quid to go to the game live but I do stay up till 2 and 3 in the morning to watch this stuff.

Forwards/Attacking midfield.

Sheva - hopeless, has to go.

Pizarro - also useless for a club of CFC's standing. He just doesn't have the technique.

Kalou/SWP/JC - all of them are fantastic till it comes to the point of scoring goals when they become totally inept. Unbelievable really. Joe Cole last night went backwards. Too much flash, not enough substance. Some great play but could be better. Two of these three need to go because we can't carry attacking midfielders who don't score goals.

Essien/Mikel : good players but Mikel particularly has to learn to be useful in attack.

Defenders: Alex I thought was hopeless last night. When I think of what a good job Gallas and Carvalho do makes me want to cry.

Thoughts?

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Ozboy I agree there are several players who aren't cutting it at the moment. However the only reason some of them are playing at the moment is due to the large amount of injuries we have. It is hard to find quality players who are willing to be patient and spend most of their time in reserves. The likes of Pizarro and Alex have only featured in a few games this season and I wouldn't expect them to start if we had our full team available. I do think they are good enough to be squad players and can do a decent job when called upon. Sheva on the other hand has had more than enough chances to show what he can do and has failed to impress. I think it is time to admit defeat with him and move on. Ballack may also fit in this category although I think he should get one more chance after he returns from injury. Kalou and Mikel are both young and are not ready to be getting the amount of playing time they have been seeing recently. But that is mainly due to injuries. I doubt Mikel would have started ahead of Lamps, and Essien.

SWP was starting to show signs of improvement this season before he got injured and JC has yet to recapture full form since his long time out with injury. Other than that I would say Ashley Cole has been disappointing and I'd still rather see Bridge start ahead of him. I've not been overly impressed with Ben Haim but he is OK as a squad player once Carvs comes back.

So overall once we get our full squad back I don't think we need wholsale changes.

Just 2 in particular:

1 new striker who can find the back of the net to replace Sheva.

1 new manager who actually knows what he is doing!

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I disagree about Alex and Pizza. I thought Alex was good against Fulham. I don't think I saw one single mistake except the one when Cech saved us but that was mostly Joeys fault because his pass was way too soft.

He was also good in attack which was nice to see even though that left us leaking in defence (guess that was Grants plan).

Pizzaro hasn't played much and he missed most of the pre season if I'm not mistaking. He needs more time. So far he has looked okay apart from the fact that he can't create chances but that is a problem all the players are having at the moment it seems.

He works hard though and that is really good. His lack of goals and chances has alot to do with the bad performance from the team. If the team can get back to the good old style then I think he'll score a few goals. I doubt he'll be a 20+ scorer for us but he'll be useful.

About Mikel I agree. He's good with the ball and can pass it well too so he should be able to become a good in attack. I think what he needs is to concentrate on either defence or attack right now.

I don't know what his training looks like but I hope he's focusing on attacking plays. He could also do with playing regulary as attacking midfielder for awhile too. We already know he's good in defence.

I'm not sure but I think Jos?s love for players who can do several different things on the pitch might have prevented Mikel to focus on one thing.

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It's not the players I feel let us down, it was the manager. We may have scrapped it, but I can virtually guarantee you that we would have won if Mourinho was still in charge.

The manager isn't being asked to make gold from pig manure, we have a solid squad allready in place here.

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It's not the players I feel let us down, it was the manager. We may have scrapped it, but I can virtually guarantee you that we would have won if Mourinho was still in charge.

The manager isn't being asked to make gold from pig manure, we have a solid squad allready in place here.

Get real. Where were you last Christmas? 2-2 v Reading, then Fulham. The whole squad is wrecked by injury, not to mention lack of confidence and cohesion (several new players struggling to fit into a team in disarray). Those problems were there before Jose left - we were playing badly and not scoring. Jose's tactics were also dubious

Yesterday's team was short on quality and totally lacking in any form. The back 4 that played the second half is totally new compared to the PF-RC-JT-WB/WG backline that served us so well. Sadly, it's also not in the same league in terms of quality, which raises big questions about the transfer deals of the past two seasons.

Ditto the midfield. Obviously Maka's not as good as he's been, thanks to advancing years, but Sidwell for Essien/Lamps? Kalou for Robben? WtF?

Then there's JC who's also not the player he was before his long absence. Drogs, who's not fit and not right in the head. And Sheva - enough said.

All in all, the whole thing is a mess that will take a truly talented coach to sort out. Even Jose - a phenomenal coach and man-manager - was struggling with it. Check out his eggs and omelettes comment, which might be a giveaway that he was not the person behind the sale of some quality players and the signing of several players who are not, in his view, of the quality needed to make a quality side. Maybe it was public statements like that that show the extent of the breakdown of relationships within the club. He couldn't work with what he had and couldn't tolerate not having full control, while the board couldn't handle him not being a yes man.

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We really weren't doing THAT badly under Mourinho. Sure we were having a barren spell, but we were still generally controlling games and creating opportunities, we just weren't taking them. Considering we had our two top goal scorers out with injury, I think we did okay.

If he was still at the club, we'd still be in with a reasonable shot at the title. Now, unless something major changes, we are aiming for champions league qualification.

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I disagree about Alex and Pizza. I thought Alex was good against Fulham. I don't think I saw one single mistake except the one when Cech saved us but that was mostly Joeys fault because his pass was way too soft.

He was also good in attack which was nice to see even though that left us leaking in defence (guess that was Grants plan).

I only saw the highlights on MOTD, but that mistake I think was pretty awful, he could and should have had that ball, but instead made a half hearted attempt at reaching that pass, then when it was past him, no reaction at all, Terry or Carvalho would be sprinting after the player through on goal for their very lives, lost cause or not, but Alex just stood there. Maybe he was tired, and I only saw highlights, but what I saw there I didn't like at all

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And refs would still be out to get us - even more than under AG.

One thing about Mourinho. The song and dances he made when Chelsea didn't get a decision, it kept a referee on their toes. You could argue that he kept them honest to an extent (though i'd argue he tried to tip the balance into our favour through putting pressure on the referees).

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All in all, the whole thing is a mess that will take a truly talented coach to sort out. Even Jose - a phenomenal coach and man-manager - was struggling with it. Check out his eggs and omelettes comment, which might be a giveaway that he was not the person behind the sale of some quality players and the signing of several players who are not, in his view, of the quality needed to make a quality side. Maybe it was public statements like that that show the extent of the breakdown of relationships within the club. He couldn't work with what he had and couldn't tolerate not having full control, while the board couldn't handle him not being a yes man.

Some of the papers now are alluding to the fact that Jose jumped ship because he knew the squad could not cope with the season ahead and that he felt hampered with injuries and was scared of facing the likes of MU and Valencia with what he had. Whilst I have doubts about the sources behind these leaks in that I think it's coming from the club trying to put a twist on things I do wonder about that eggs comment. Did he actually have the leeway to actually buy the players he wanted or was he told no work with what you've got (what he had not being that good (the class B eggs).

I don't think we have been that bad but we have had to play more of our squad players than first team and some of them have just not stepped up to the plate. MU are not playing well at all but no one says anything about that because they are scraping buy on 1-0 wins.

I still think he left fundamentally because he could no longer work with the interference at the club and constant take the hassle any more of the constant interference and demands and both parties had literally were fed up with each other.

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Callista - Mourinho was either sacked or constructively dismissed: "parting by mutual consent" has and always will be the legal euphemism for either. Given that Jose's hands were effectively tied in the transfer market during the close season it may have been the case that Jose wanted to walk then but in the absence of clauses in his contract giving him carte blanche in his transfer dealings and that clause being expressly mentioned in any termination clause in the contract that Jose could rely on, IMO Jose would have been advised by his cohorts not to "rock the boat" regarding his emasculated position prior to the commencement of the season due to reasons of anticipatory breach. Further, and IMO, I think what happened at the penultimate meeting was that Ambramovich et al may have sought to vary the contract (and further emasculate Jose's decision making power) or just plain sacked him under the existing provisions of the contract. Otherwise I agree with you take.

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Callista - Mourinho was either sacked or constructively dismissed: "parting by mutual consent" has and always will be the legal euphemism for either. Given that Jose's hands were effectively tied in the transfer market during the close season it may have been the case that Jose wanted to walk then but in the absence of clauses in his contract giving him carte blanche in his transfer dealings and that clause being expressly mentioned in any termination clause in the contract that Jose could rely on, IMO Jose would have been advised by his cohorts not to "rock the boat" regarding his emasculated position prior to the commencement of the season due to reasons of anticipatory breach. Further, and IMO, I think what happened at the penultimate meeting was that Ambramovich et al may have sought to vary the contract (and further emasculate Jose's decision making power) or just plain sacked him under the existing provisions of the contract. Otherwise I agree with you take.

I just don't like the way the press are starting to suggest he abandoned the club because he was too scared to carry on - he's never been scared of anything in his life.

I guess bottom line he was sacked - or he felt he had to offer his resignation and Roman was only too pleased to except it.

He was right, he should have left in the summer, the moment Grant was appointed over his head was really the beginning of the end plus the row back in January.

I wish this club would learn but it never does.

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I may be alone on this but i doubt Mourinho would have done any better in this situation. Take a look at how many first team players we were missing before the Fulham match and add to it Terry's injury and Drogba's red card - any team would struggle to get a result under these circumstances.

I feel some pro-Jose supporters are experiencing 'an abused widow syndrome': just because he's gone that doesn't make him perfect, even if you want to believe it.

Like Backbiter mentioned earlier we were struggling to beat midtable teams last season and Mourinho was more than willing to blame injuries for the poor showing on the field, although if i'm not mistaken he never faced a crisis as big as this one. That's why i was never amused at egg and omelette comment: it is Mourinho's team, he put those players together and if the result doesn't look good he may not need to look further than himself for answers.

I personally think that the club was in serious crisis long before JM had left the building and he has as much fault in it as the owner and the board. I wish people would stop blaming Roman for everything negative and praise Jose for all the success, it simply doesn't work like that. I refuse to believe that all those 'grade B eggs' were forced on Mourinho, knowing his personality and hands on approach to all club affairs it's impossible to suggest he had no say in transfer decisions.

I agree on one thing: the timing of JM's exit couldn't have been worse but it only proves it wasn't planned, not at that moment in season, anyway. Grant may not be good enough to save us even on a temporary basis, but he's facing a such an enormous task that even The Special One would have found it extremely challenging.

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I dont think we are in desprate need of building a new team, we need are forwards to start converting chances.

The thing is when some one like Jose leaves its very difficult to fill the void, tacticaly any coach that comes in is going to take time to get players working his way.

There is no way in the world grant can be chastised for the YET. he will not have been able to get the team playing to the way he wants it in such a short space of time.

However, where he does fall down is he has no presence. People talk about the new manager effect, when a team are down on there luck a new man comes in and its worth 6 points because of the freshness of it but thats normaly down the bottom end of the table wherre the man there replacing is probably worse than them. As i said Jose would be a hard image to replace for any manager. Grant falls a million miles short so we loose the added bonus of being able to unite and inspire the players, ironicly, siege mentality if you like!!

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I may be alone on this but i doubt Mourinho would have done any better in this situation. Take a look at how many first team players we were missing before the Fulham match...

This is a recurring theme on this site and I couldn't disagree more vehemently. Half, if not most, of that Fulham team on Saturday wouldn't get a place in our reserves, let a lone a place on the bench with our first XI. Fulham can only dream about players of the quality we have on our bench.

P

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I may be alone on this but i doubt Mourinho would have done any better in this situation. Take a look at how many first team players we were missing before the Fulham match...

This is a recurring theme on this site and I couldn't disagree more vehemently. Half, if not most, of that Fulham team on Saturday wouldn't get a place in our reserves, let a lone a place on the bench with our first XI. Fulham can only dream about players of the quality we have on our bench.

P

Last season under Mourinho we drew with Fulham at the Bridge - 2-2.

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I may be alone on this but i doubt Mourinho would have done any better in this situation. Take a look at how many first team players we were missing before the Fulham match and add to it Terry's injury and Drogba's red card - any team would struggle to get a result under these circumstances.

I feel some pro-Jose supporters are experiencing 'an abused widow syndrome': just because he's gone that doesn't make him perfect, even if you want to believe it.

Like Backbiter mentioned earlier we were struggling to beat midtable teams last season and Mourinho was more than willing to blame injuries for the poor showing on the field, although if i'm not mistaken he never faced a crisis as big as this one. That's why i was never amused at egg and omelette comment: it is Mourinho's team, he put those players together and if the result doesn't look good he may not need to look further than himself for answers.

I personally think that the club was in serious crisis long before JM had left the building and he has as much fault in it as the owner and the board. I wish people would stop blaming Roman for everything negative and praise Jose for all the success, it simply doesn't work like that. I refuse to believe that all those 'grade B eggs' were forced on Mourinho, knowing his personality and hands on approach to all club affairs it's impossible to suggest he had no say in transfer decisions.

I agree on one thing: the timing of JM's exit couldn't have been worse but it only proves it wasn't planned, not at that moment in season, anyway. Grant may not be good enough to save us even on a temporary basis, but he's facing a such an enormous task that even The Special One would have found it extremely challenging.

I don't think Jose was perfect by any means and the omelette quote could have been taken the wrong way by people and perhaps it was. I don't think he was trying to belittle his team just point out if you have injuries to key players the quality of what you produce will not be so good because you rely on your second or even third choice player.

I think Jose did not look his usual self since the start of the season, much quieter not as sparky or confrontational - ironically I don't think toning it down as he did suited him, he looked put upon and reined in. That again was the club's doing wanting to brush up their image.

We have no idea about the transfer dealings at the club, some seem Mourinho buys some everyone has doubts on (Sheva for example). Every manager makes bad buys and good ones, I think overall he didn't do too badly, but I think that having Kenyon making stupid half arsed comments about winning the CL 2 in the next 6 years when you are going through a period of not being able to score goals coupled with a growing injury list was not Jose's idea of support.

You can't blame Roman for all the clubs ills but equally you can't blame Jose for finally calling it a day, Roman seemed to be a man who wanted everything now, he wanted silverware now and he got it, then he wanted silverware but playing a different type of football and when he didn't get there and then he lost patience. He also insisted on making the club into a continental model with a raft of advisors and a director of football - which you could tell disturbed Jose, the team wasn't broken but Roman decided to "fix" it by meddling in the streamlined structure that was there when Jose first came in.

Jose must be a very difficult man to work for but people very good at their job often are, pity the two men's personalities couldn't be accommodated but their egos are both two big but Roman is the boss so there could only be one winner in this final stand off.

So yes Jose must take some of the blame but so should Roman for thinking that football works like any other business - you put ?500 million in and you get a say in everything that happens - in a business yes but in football a manager wants you to give him the money and then stay the hell out of the engine room. Roman didn't want to do that it seems to me - he thinks he can run the club just like one of his many businesses and it just doesn't work like that.

I think Jose finally realised things were just going to get worse between them and coupled with Roman's obvious dissatisfaction about the results he called time on it before things got more fractuous between them.

The irony is that I'm sure once we get Lampard, Riccy and a few of our key players back we will recover - I think Jose knew that too but he just ran out of time.

I hope Grant gets a little longer than Jose did to turn it around - 6 games.

I don't think the team needs some major overhaul at all, we were just going through a bad patch, losing Lampard was a killer blow in my view as he was scoring critical goals to keep us motoring along whilst we were not playing so well plus our other supposed striker Sheva was obviously finished, MU are doing the same thing but no one is pointing the finger at Fergie for all his big name buys failing to gel now are they?

Can you imagine the fuss if Jose had brought in all these expensive players who then failed to start performing from the get go? There would have been more moans and whines about how crap his buying policy.

Nani, Anderson and Tevez have hardly set the world on fire and MU are hardly playing well but no one cares because they are winning.

It would have been the same for us if only our injuries had not occured to key players.

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