2004 Squad Vs 2008

[Chippy]

I was thinking about the great Squad Jose inherited when he took over from Claudio,

In my opinion that was the best Squad over his stay.

The additions this season have looked good and I wondered what your opinions are on which is the best of the two Squads?

Here they are as I remember although feel free to correct me,

What I feel is the first 11 could be very close and we have improved from last season but taking into account Form...which squad would make the best if you took it down to say 18?

Cech ---------------- Cech

Cudicini ---------------- Cudicini

Pidgley ---------------- Hilario

Lampard ----------------Lampard

Terry ---------------- Terry

Makalele ---------------- Boswinga

Gudjohnson ----------------- A Cole

Ferreira ----------------- Anelka

Duff ---------------- Mikel

Gallas ----------------- Malouda

Carvalho ----------------- Carvalho

Tiago ----------------- Ballack

J Cole ----------------- J Cole

Drogba ----------------- Drogba

Robben ----------------- Deco

Johnson ----------------- Belletti

Bridge ---------------- Bridge

Smertin ---------------- Essien

Kezman ---------------- Kalou

Gerami ---------------- Alex

Huth ---------------- Ivanovic

Babayaro ---------------- Ferreira

Jarosik ---------------- Mancienne

Parker ---------------- Sinclair

Forsell ----------------- Di Santo

Mutu ----------------- Stoch

Oliveira

Morais

Watt

Grant

[ethicalstrategy]

Good thread Chippy :D

I've taken the liberty of jiggling your list around a little as I think it helps to clarify things for my way of thinking. Basically, I have omitted all the common players to both squads and left out those such as Morais, Grant and Oliveira, Stoch who were/are never really involved to any great extent. I appreciate that leaving the common players out doesn't take account of form then and now but in general I would say that they cancel themselves out.

So that leaves the following, arranged in groups by position.

Goalkeepers:

Pidgley----------Hilario--------------Hilario is the winner here

Fullbacks:

Babayaro-------Ashley Cole--------Here I think the current squad wins comfortably.

Johnson---------Bosingwa

------------------Belletti

Centre Backs:

Huth-------------Alex----------------Slightly more tricky here. Gallas at his best was better than any of the others but Alex, Ivanovic and Mancienne give us more depth.

Gallas-----------Ivanovic

Watt-------------Mancienne

Midfielders:

Geremi----------Ballack-------------No contest here. The current squad is much stronger. Only Maka stands out from the 2004 bunch. The others are decent players and we had

Jarosik----------Deco----------------more depth but not the same quality.

Tiago------------Essien

Smertin---------Mikel

Parker

Makelele

Wide players:

Robben----------Sinclair-------------The 2004 boys win this easily.

Duff--------------Kalou

------------------Malouda

Strikers:

Forssell---------Anelka---------------Probably give this to the 2004 squad on the basis of depth and overall ability.

Gudjohnsen----Di Santo

Kezman

Mutu

So overall, I think this exercise tells us what we already know. The quality of the current squad is the best it has ever been, with the exception of the wide players, but we do lack depth out wide and up front.

[Chippy]

Good thread Chippy :D

I've taken the liberty of jiggling your list around a little as I think it helps to clarify things for my way of thinking. Basically, I have omitted all the common players to both squads and left out those such as Morais, Grant and Oliveira, Stoch who were/are never really involved to any great extent. I appreciate that leaving the common players out doesn't take account of form then and now but in general I would say that they cancel themselves out.

So that leaves the following, arranged in groups by position.

Goalkeepers:

Pidgley----------Hilario--------------Hilario is the winner here

Fullbacks:

Babayaro-------Ashley Cole--------Here I think the current squad wins comfortably.

Johnson---------Bosingwa

------------------Belletti

Centre Backs:

Huth-------------Alex----------------Slightly more tricky here. Gallas at his best was better than any of the others but Alex, Ivanovic and Mancienne give us more depth.

Gallas-----------Ivanovic

Watt-------------Mancienne

Midfielders:

Geremi----------Ballack-------------No contest here. The current squad is much stronger. Only Maka stands out from the 2004 bunch. The others are decent players and we had

Jarosik----------Deco----------------more depth but not the same quality.

Tiago------------Essien

Smertin---------Mikel

Parker

Makelele

Wide players:

Robben----------Sinclair-------------The 2004 boys win this easily.

Duff--------------Kalou

------------------Malouda

Strikers:

Forssell---------Anelka---------------Probably give this to the 2004 squad on the basis of depth and overall ability.

Gudjohnsen----Di Santo

Kezman

Mutu

So overall, I think this exercise tells us what we already know. The quality of the current squad is the best it has ever been, with the exception of the wide players, but we do lack depth out wide and up front.

Nicely sorted out ES,

I know everyone knows we have a very strong squad and where it could be improved but maybe a better question is to directly compare the two as to which would you feel had the best chance of winning the PL...if the choice of teams was at our disposal for 2008?

I wonder if the squad has improved as much as our direct rivals who (mainly UTD) have improved season by season wheras I think we stagnated a bit until the recent additions.

[byatt]

Good thread...

I think, like ethical strategy worked out, this seasons current squad just about edges it for me

We've alot more experience now for a start and we've got players who genuinely know how to win the major trophies, in 2004 with the exception of the lads that came with Jose from Porto and then Geremi who won stuff with Real Madrid, we didn't have a squad of "winners" like we do now, so for me that adds a little extra to the prestige of the current squad

[ethicalstrategy]

So a first choice, fully fit, top of their form 2004 team versus a first choice, fully fit, top of their form 2008 team!

Cech------------Cech

Ferreira--------Bosingwa

Carvalho-------Carvalho

Terry-----------Terry

Gallas----------Cole

Makelele-------Mikel

Tiago-----------Ballack

Lampard-------Lampard

Duff------------Deco

Robben--------Cole

Drogba--------Drogba

That would be a hell of a match up. On a one off match basis I'd go for 2004 because I think it would be more solid defensively and the width of Robben and Duff would trouble Bosingwa and Cole. Over a whole season it's hard to look past a team the accumulated 95 points.

[Chippy]

So a first choice, fully fit, top of their form 2004 team versus a first choice, fully fit, top of their form 2008 team!

Cech------------Cech

Ferreira--------Bosingwa

Carvalho-------Carvalho

Terry-----------Terry

Gallas----------Cole

Makelele-------Mikel

Tiago-----------Ballack

Lampard-------Lampard

Duff------------Deco

Robben--------Cole

Drogba--------Drogba

That would be a hell of a match up. On a one off match basis I'd go for 2004 because I think it would be more solid defensively and the width of Robben and Duff would trouble Bosingwa and Cole. Over a whole season it's hard to look past a team the accumulated 95 points.

Basically what I have ended up with...worries me a bit as I think the main opposition has improved quite a bit and we are still not quite as good as that first Title winning team,

I think we are in for a very interesting season and if we are to win it Scolari will have to keep the motivation levels high and possibly move in the January window to bring the weaker areas up to the standard of that original line up.

[mad_mac]

Great match up, but I think I'd have Kalou and Essien in my team this season. Either way, we are still pretty solid.

So, if you could add one or two players from the 04 team into our current squad, who would it be? Doesn't need to be at the expense of anyone

For me: Guddy and a fully fit Duffer

[Chippy]

Great match up, but I think I'd have Kalou and Essien in my team this season. Either way, we are still pretty solid.

So, if you could add one or two players from the 04 team into our current squad, who would it be? Doesn't need to be at the expense of anyone

For me: Guddy and a fully fit Duffer

Good question Mac,

I was thinking about Eidur when comparing the teams and even though I rated him highly I couldn't put him in my 04 first 11 which amazes me as I write it :o

I would have an on form Robben and Duffer and with those two I would be very confident we had everything.

I thought hard about Makalele but think with the two wingers and our attacking options we have options without having to have the perfect holding player.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Chippy

[PloKoon13]

Yeah, I'd have Robben and Duff in for Kalou and Malouda, and an on-form Drogba down the middle.

And I don't know whether I'd have Maka in for Mikel. As much as I love him, we do play far more attacking football with Mikel at the helm.

[TomP]

Basically, I have omitted all the common players to both squads

The only problem with doing that is it is assuming that the players who have been with us since 04 are still playing at the same level.

In my opinion, the likes of Ferreira, Bridge, and maybe (arguabely) Lampard and Terry were better players in that 2004 season that they are now.

On the other side of things - Drogba, Carvalho and Joe Cole spring to mind. They are significantly better players now than they were in 04.

You have to take that into account when you compare the squads.

The obvious thing is that we have lost quality in wide positions. Duff and Robben were the best in the world in 2004 by a long way. I don't think there's any way that Cole/Malouda/Kalou are as good currently.

Another good comparison to do (if anyone could be bothered) is to compare the current squad to the 05/06 squad - which is the best Chelsea squad of all time in my opinion (adding Crespo, Essien, SWP etc to the 04/05 squad)

Edited October 23, 2008 by TomP

[Dubzz 6]

Well i'd definately have essien in the holding midfield role over anyone over the past four years. The 2004 wide players were the best i've seen in the premiership probably in all of my 18 years.

2004

Cech

Ferreira

Carvalho

Terry

Gallas

Makelele

Lampard

Gudjohnsen

Duff

Robben

Drogba (although he wasn't quite the world class player he is now in 2004, he was still the best lone striker we had)

2008

Cech

Bosingwa

Terry

Carvalho

Cole

Essien

Lampard

Deco

Cole

Kalou

Drogba

There probably my two teams I would pick from both of those years, we definately have a better squad overall this year than 2004, and a more versatile one. If I was to pick an overall squad i'd replace Kalou with Robben.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Dubzz 6

[loz]

Essien over anyone in the holding role in the past four years? Not a chance as far as I am concerned. In the past four years Makalele was still here and although he wasn't 100% the player he was at his peak he was still head and shoulders above Essien in the holding role.

TO be honest if Mikel carries on playing the way he is in the holding role then by the time Essien is ready for first team action again I can see him struggling to get in the first team on a regular basis.

[Dubzz 6]

Nah I think Essien would walk back in if he can produce the form he was showing before he got injured. He is a brilliant holding midfielder and defender crap themselves when he is 30 yards out and in space, thats a handy weapon to have. And he is a powerhouse and is very versatile, he only thing he has to his disadvantage is height.

As much as I rate makelele I feel Essien is a Makelele who can shoot, although makelele is the best defensively, Essien is a holding player who can break away with the ball with pace. I'd much rather have him in a holding role than any other player.

[midlandblue]

It seems that given the choice between Duff or Robben, most would opt for Duff,

Not on my shift, Robben every time (assuming they are both at the top of thier game)

[Chippy]

It seems that given the choice between Duff or Robben, most would opt for Duff,

Not on my shift, Robben every time (assuming they are both at the top of thier game)

I think on top of their game you are spot on, Robbens ability when fit and in the right mood is second to none but Duff just seemed to usually deliver what you expected and you could rely on him game after game...again when fit.

The worst thing for me with Arjen was if he got a knock or hard tackle early in the game it seemed to dictate his whole game, he just seemed to lose interest.

[Ruh Buh Juh]

Of the 2004 squad, I'd love to see Eidur and Robben back for Anelka and Malouda.

Eidur reminds me of Deco in the way he reads the game and nearly always played brilliantly (anyone remember when he came on as a sub for 10 mins in one game and got MOTM?).

Robben is just pure class, no matter how injury prone he is. He would run rings around Malouda anyday, he's got double the pace of Malouda, better crosser than Malouda....need I say more?

[Ruh Buh Juh]

Just to say...

Well i'd definately have essien in the holding midfield role over anyone over the past four years. The 2004 wide players were the best i've seen in the premiership probably in all of my 18 years.

Essien in CDM over Makelele? Essien in CDM over Mikel in the form he's in now? Nah. Would much rather see him alongside Lampard and Deco in a 4-1-3-2 formation (sorry, Ballack).

1 would be Mikel, 3 of Essien, Deco and Lampard, 2 of Drogba and Anelka (Anelka swap with Aguero in August yeah?)

Edited October 24, 2008 by Ruh Buh Juh