Club V Country

[BLUENUT]

Are clubs like Chelsea, Liverpool and Manu right in trying to exclude their players for frendlies?

National Traitor, Rooney, Ferdinand, Lampard are all out of the England squad for the coming international v Germany, but all are likely to feature in their next domestic club next match.

(I'd mention Arsenal but they're only likely to have 1 player who would qualify :D )

[loz]

I think they are wrong to and it has got to such a ridiculous stage now that I would support a rule being brought in meaning that if you missed an international game through injury then you shouldn't be allowed to play for your club for a period of say 7 days.

I realise this would mean there were a few occasions where players were prevented from playing when they genuinely were injured and recovered by the time the weekend came along however I would bet the majority of the international pull outs are fake.

It used to be embarrassing how Giggs simply refused to play friendlies for Wales, now Gerrard has became a master of it and now it looks as if we are following suit.

[Barn]

Mid season friendlies like this are totally pointless, they don't achieve anything that a training break wouldn't achieve. I don't watch them so I think it would be hypocritical of me to say that players shouldn't drop out, it's not as if those that do have really got anything to prove to the manager and if the player that takes there place does well enough to keep their place in the next proper game then so be it.

[loz]

But what is the point of a friendly if the manager can't see how a small number of potential players cope alongide the plaeyrs who will definitely play. If Capello wants to try the likes of Mancienne and Agbhonlahor then he has to see they play alongside JT, Lampard and Gerrard, not his reserves.

[BLUENUT]

I think they are wrong to and it has got to such a ridiculous stage now that I would support a rule being brought in meaning that if you missed an international game through injury then you shouldn't be allowed to play for your club for a period of say 7 days.

I realise this would mean there were a few occasions where players were prevented from playing when they genuinely were injured and recovered by the time the weekend came along however I would bet the majority of the international pull outs are fake.

It used to be embarrassing how Giggs simply refused to play friendlies for Wales, now Gerrard has became a master of it and now it looks as if we are following suit.

We may be following suit with Lamps but we're still allowing a semi fit Terry to take part aswell as Bridge, Mancienne (although technically representing Wolves) and A. Cole if hes fit. Joe Cole would be there aswell if he hadn't spent most of the season injured. Man Utd under Fergie have consistantly refused players for internationals, I think Fletcher has been pulled from Scotland's game aswell.

[loz]

Bluenut

I agree totally that we are not in the same league as Man Utd but it still bothers me that we may have done it as do it onec now and we will start to think we may as well do it again next time, maybe with more players.

[ethicalstrategy]

It is hardly fair to lump people like Frank in with some of the others. He turned up to play but was ruled out by the England medical staff. Similarly, JT missed the last two England games not because he didn't want to play but because Capello wouldn't pick him unless he was 100% fit. (which is fair enough). The fact that he played for Chelsea when still not 100% the following Saturday shouldn't be held against him.

That's a far cry from clubs trying to hold players back. Liverpool took a conscious decision to send Gerrard for an operation during World Cup qualifying for their benefit and at the expense of the country. On this occasion it seems that Gerrard is genuinely injured but it is quite right that the England doctor should at least verify that sort of thing.

This friendly though is a complete nonsense.

[BLUENUT]

Bluenut

I agree totally that we are not in the same league as Man Utd but it still bothers me that we may have done it as do it onec now and we will start to think we may as well do it again next time, maybe with more players.

It's a tough one, but the players we've released this time are not our most important (except Terry, but we're well covered in that department)

The thing is though, this game is really only a money spinner for the FA.

With Champions league qualification still not guaranteed, I can see the reason why some of the clubs want to protect their biggest assest/players. I'm not saying it's right but if you were paying £130k per week to someone, you don't want them out for a month after reporting back from an international?

and with so many foreign coaches, do they really care about England's international prospects?

It make a mockery of another friendly albeit against a rather prestigous opposition.

I know alot of fella's going out there and they're pissed off so many big names are dropping like flies, and not for the first time.

[BLUENUT]

I read on another site about introducing the '7 day rule' mentioned by Loz above and in theory agree with it, but genuine injured players could suffer, as ethical mentions Terry for example in the last round of qualifiers.

I think a gentlemens argeement with the international manager saying he will pick a maximum of x amount of players from 1 side and they will not all play 90 mins each or something along those lines, at least the manager has a full sqaud to work with in training.

It is also not fair on players who travel everywhere in all of the squads to miss the final's if we get there, a bit like Defoe being left out for an injured Rooney and a 16 yr old last time around.

[Kerry]

I'm a bit disappointed by Capello's non-existent response. When appointed manager, he announced a hardline-attitude, espeacially in those friendlies before the Euro08 with a la "If you want to play for England you must love the England shirt". Now we've always known that Stephanie's love for the England shirt is purely metaphysical, and it seems his "love" spreads around. I've expected that Capello would sack all those barbie-stars and his assistant has always ensured that Capello is neither afraid nor impressed by big names. But seeing that he seems to be lenient towards those cheaters and traitors, I'm a bit disappointed.

Before you're pointing with the finger at me - NO I don't support the Germany team. I'm neither supporting England nor Germany.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Kerry

[Luckydevil]

CLub or country? Both. I think it's an honour to wear your national shirt no matter which country you're from and no matter if it is just a friendly or some important game. The thing that really pisses me off at the moment that I payed a lot of money for the game on Wednesday to see England play. And of course to see some of our Chelsea players as the game is here in Germany and during the year I don't have much time to come to England and see them play.

And now? Nothing......

[Kerry]

And of course to see some of our Chelsea players as the game is here in Germany and during the year I don't have much time to come to England and see them play.

Hey, a compatriot - not possible :P Not exactly the same reason but that's why I refused to go spend cash back then when I was asked if I'd like to join.

[Nibs]

Long gone are the days when playing football for your country was the highest honour and what every player aimed for. No real money in playing for England is there?

A friendly at this stage of the season seems a complete waste of time and I can't blame clubs for not wanting to risk players. Apparantly, Barca have an agreement with Argentina that Messi doesn't have to play in ANY friendlies. Very sensible of them.

[Ruh Buh Juh]

Is it Lampard's fault he has a rib injury? Nope.

Is it Ger 'National Traitor' rard's fault he has injury number 365784165439252 this season? No, it's Rafa's!

[midlandblue]

Is it Lampard's fault he has a rib injury? Nope.

Is it Ger 'National Traitor' rard's fault he has injury number 365784165439252 this season? No, it's Rafa's!

I blame Kenyon.

[Gem]

Hmm...

Lamps gets injured against Germany, misses the season, we miss out on 20 odd goals, we miss out on trophies...

Lamps doesn't play, doesn't get injured.

I know which one I'd choose. I know there is every chance he could pick up something during training or a match, but it wouldn't be pointless like these friendlies THIS TIME OF YEAR. Why not stick one inbetween the Christmas schedule as well?

[andy]

Long gone are the days when playing football for your country was the highest honour and what every player aimed for. No real money in playing for England is there?

A friendly at this stage of the season seems a complete waste of time and I can't blame clubs for not wanting to risk players. Apparantly, Barca have an agreement with Argentina that Messi doesn't have to play in ANY friendlies. Very sensible of them.

Agreed... England is just a side show.. I am proudly english and proud of my national team but in this day and age I am far more upset say if Chelsea lose than England, which says it all.

Club comes first all the way for me and it is a good opertunity to rest the players when we have a mid season friendly

Well that is the situation.. Problem is not Capello or the clubs or the players.. the Problem as always is the weak FA !!!

I reckon they should....

1. Ge rid of the Carling cup..

2. Reduce the numbe rof teams in the Premier league

3. Both above would allow a small break in the season (like the rest of Europe, doesn't necessarliy have to be Christmas, cos I like the christmas games;-) )

4. Use the time generated to give the England squad time together (I think I am right in saying tha Greece had a few months together before winning the Euro's)

5. Only allow the England medical staff decide on a player fitness.

I reckon if the FA were strong enough they could achieve these things or at least work towards them... but as it is .. club first all the way.

[BLUENUT]

Agreed... England is just a side show.. I am proudly english and proud of my national team but in this day and age I am far more upset say if Chelsea lose than England, which says it all.

Club comes first all the way for me and it is a good opertunity to rest the players when we have a mid season friendly

Well that is the situation.. Problem is not Capello or the clubs or the players.. the Problem as always is the weak FA !!!

I reckon they should....

1. Ge rid of the Carling cup..

2. Reduce the numbe rof teams in the Premier league

3. Both above would allow a small break in the season (like the rest of Europe, doesn't necessarliy have to be Christmas, cos I like the christmas games;-) )

4. Use the time generated to give the England squad time together (I think I am right in saying tha Greece had a few months together before winning the Euro's)

5. Only allow the England medical staff decide on a player fitness.

I reckon if the FA were strong enough they could achieve these things or at least work towards them... but as it is .. club first all the way.

Yeah but how much money do the FA make from this game?

[Barn]

Making the Carling cup a competition that full internationals are not allowed to play in is a great idea.

I don't think the honour of playing for your country has gone, I think the players that drop out are players that have won plenty of caps already and know that they will be picked in the next qualifier whether they play in the freindly or not. On top of that club football is such a high level with so much at stake and such tight competition that you can almost understand why some players drop out of international freindlies.

[Kerry]

Hmm...

Lamps gets injured against Germany, misses the season, we miss out on 20 odd goals, we miss out on trophies...

Lamps doesn't play, doesn't get injured.

Frank isn't to be blamed for anything. He's nearly everytime there to step when it's about playing for England. But the fact that this little sweet mascot from Merseyside is deadly injured everytime when England calls up but returns as quickly when Saturday arrives - hey he isn't even e great cheater! Ability in cheating means to cheat without anyone detecting it!

[BLUENUT]

Making the Carling cup a competition that full internationals are not allowed to play in is a great idea.

I don't think the honour of playing for your country has gone, I think the players that drop out are players that have won plenty of caps already and know that they will be picked in the next qualifier whether they play in the freindly or not. On top of that club football is such a high level with so much at stake and such tight competition that you can almost understand why some players drop out of international freindlies.

Good shout but we wouldn't be able to put a team out

[Gem]

Exibit A: Walcott now out for 3 months after getting injured training with England.

Bet Arsenal fans are happy.

[Kerry]

Exibit A: Walcott now out for 3 months after getting injured training with England.

Bet Arsenal fans are happy.

Wenger used to love watching England training. Maybe he'll stop from now on

[Premchat]

Club is ALWAYS better the country IMO

[CFC93]

Club is ALWAYS better the country IMO

I dispise people who would rather their club win a trophy than their country. I hate every Liverpool fan for this reason, EVERY Liverpool fan i have spoke to have said they would rather Liverpool win the Premier League then England win the World Cup. So for me, England are more important than Chelsea.