just

I agree with all of that. Plus, didn't change us tactically or formation wise one iota. Brought in one player who, IMO, is a class centre-forward and then persistently used him out of position.

Sarcasm seems to be in vogue at the moment Mod. Personally I think we should shoot all our forwards and start again. Drogba and Anelka for being embarassments. Pizzaro for being too good looking, And Sheva for being sh*t.

Here, here. I can't believe Anelka. Not wanting to take a penalty. He lost the CL final for us. He is an embarassment. I don't ever want to see him in a blue shirt again.

My heart says Ruud. The man who invented "sexy football". My other heart says Jose. The most succesful manager in our history. Took over when we were used to finishing second and quickly made us first. We're in the same situation now. I know he could do it again.

The most succesful manager in our history? I'd love to have him back.

I chose that example carefully. True, but by reading the media you will form the wrong perception. I think it is you who has chosen a bad example. These words prove my point which is not that Keane isn't a thug (he patently is) but that he isn't "mental" or consumed by a "red mist". He knew exactly what he was doing in the way that countless footballers have, some wearing blue, through the ages. It has amused me greatly that there is widespread surprise at his success as a manager and at his general calm demeanor. Any observer of his career would have easily predicted exactly that. He's petty, vindictive, vicious and unpleasant but he's intelligent, articulate and very much in control. Self-control!!! Liam surely you're joking! Either that or you're on a wind-up. I'll grant you he comes across as a different animal now that he is a manager, but when he was on the pitch? It's hard to think of a player who had less self-control than Keane! How many red cards did he pick up in his career? Wasn't it 12 times in his time at United? The elbow on Jason McAteer when he mimed writing a book to Keane? The time he threw the ball at Shearer, who just smirked and had a few words, so Keane then tried to hit him and................ got sent off! He was great player and he may well be intelligent and articulate, but so were Eric Cantona and Ted Bundy apparently and they had little in the way of self-control either. And the fact that he waited four years to get at Haaland again, and actually went through with his plan, did not show Keane had self-control. It showed the complete opposite. It showed he had a screw loose!

Oh, you picked the wrong example there Liam. You don't have to read the media to form a perception of Keane. Just read his book and get it straight from the horses' mouth? His own words on his career ending premeditated assault on Alf Inga Haaland: "I'd waited long enough. I fu*king hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you c*nt. And don't ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries".

continue or start? sorry, but when you say "reasoned" what do you actually mean? Jesus. What is your problem? One rant I could have understood we all have our moments when we are passionate about something. But with this continuation of a sarcastic, overly hostile style you're becoming the one thing you used to deride. You've turned into Brian M. am I denying that? at all? what's your point? is there a point in me responding at all? did you even read what I've just written about drogba? or only the critical parts? hopefully when this reasoned debate kicks off you might not choose to have such a selective memory. My point is, that in your previous rant you tried to make out those type of comments were from Henry and Pauly. And you've tried that before. They were not. They came from you as well. To be fair you've admitted in your previous post that you were spectacularly wrong in your assessment of him as a player and I therefore accept that it does not colour your perception of him at all. first of all- the drogba praise isn't universal no, but it is in the majority IMO, and was definitely the case last season. if you think jimmy was loved by all then I think your hearing is as selective as your reading. I've not been a season ticket holder as long as you but I have never witnessed a player moaned about more, or made the fans more divided than hasselbaink. I repeat, the posts on this forum prove that jimmy was not loved by all. (so why are you insisting that's the case?) okay, now the second part: the reason I offered my opinion on jimmy was to illustrate that I don't love him, and I don't love drogba either. but I have absolutely no idea as to why you appear to think that there is some onus to explain why you perceive jimmy to be more popular than drogba. why should I explain it? for a start, I would have to agree with your conclusion, which I do not, as I thought I had explained well enough. secondly, please grasp the concept that I only have one opinion, and that is my own- I do not decide what others think, be it pauly, henry or now the 42000 in stamford bridge. nor do I necessarily share their opinions by default. it's absurd that you seem to think I have some responsibility to answer questions on behalf of thousands of hypothetical people. you can call my previous post a rant (as you may choose to do with this one), but at least when I put a point to you I am only asking you to speak on behalf of yourself, and that point should be relevant to a "reasoned debate". No Imo it is not in the majority. Not by a long shot. You maybe need to sit in other areas of the ground rather than the East Upper to gauage that feeling. Do you hear Drogba's name sung at every game? F*cking right you don't. I am working on a job at the moment where the foreman is a Chelsea ST holder since 1982. I met up with him to watch the Bolton game and again on Wednesday for the CL. Guess what? He can't f*cking stand Drogba. He had two other Chelsea supporters at the Bolton game. Guess what? They couldn't stand Drogba. Jimmy rarely, if ever, (other than from myself), came in for the level of criticism Drogba gets. He may have divided opinion over his playing ability but relatively few people were as openly critical of his comments to the press, his whinging at his team-mates or his falling over as they are for Drogba's. For Christ sake, when we were in the semi against Monaco, Jimmy sniped to the press about how he had to start in the second leg, and lo and behold, come the night, Ranieri crumpled, dropped an in-form Crespo who was in good goal-scoring form at the time, and re-instated Jimmy! The rest is history. He missed a great one on one opportunity with the keeper in the first couple of minutes and then promptly disappeared from sight. Did people slaughter Jimmy for putting pressure on the manager with his press comments? Did they blame our exit on Jimmy missing that gilt-edged chance? No? You can be f*cking sure they would have if it had been Drogba. Just as they are blaming our exit solely on him getting sent off six minutes from the end of the game and therefore not taking a penalty. great- well just because for you it only matters what a player does on the pitch (do you include complaining about free kicks on the pitch? you used to when jimmy was the guy doing the moaning, do you include the diving? do you include the petulant slap that jt would have been apparently lauded for?), does not mean that it is the same for everyone. and do you think drogba has been misquoted all along? more to the point do you think that the way he is perceived in the media is incorrect? if so, how should he be perceived (given all those quotes)? Tom P's last post says it all for me. I share that same view. And personally I couldn't care less about his personal attitude or personality unless it either (1) affects his performance on the pitch or (2) affects the performance of the players around him. And I have never seen any evidence of that. I can put up with him whinging an whining to whichever journalist who will listen, as long as he is a Chelsea player and puts in 100% effort every time he pulls on the shirt and performs to the best of his ability. That is all you can ask of a footballer. Obviously players like JT and players like Zola go past this, and gain the respect of fans as footballers and as people, through their actions on and off the pitch, but that is not going to be the case with every single one of our players. "I mean, most of us here agree that Chelsea as a club get a pretty hard time in the media. I think borderline hatred towards one of our best performing players over the last 4 years has a lot to do some of us fans starting to believe the tripe you read in the papers". And stop being so naive on this point. Of course the media portrayal of players can have an effect on people's perceptions. People who have never met them. Both before and after the taxi affair Dennis Wise was regularly vilified in the press. Not to the extent Drogba is, but vilified nonetheless. Rival fans and nuetrals hated him. His media characterisation was normally that of a petulant, vicious little yob and that's how many people percieved him. Well, nothing could have been further from the truth. He is one of the nicest blokes you could ever wish to meet and was a tireless worker for charity personally, I've had enough of him. that's not a conscious choice, and might I suggest that despite being the biggest critic of drogba ever ever , I've been more patient than others... give me a worse player who actually wants to be here. You keeping repeating that. I get the point

Well hopefully we can continue with some kind of reasoned debate rather than a rant. Firstly G4. I must clear this up. You know, full well, you were one of, it not the most vocal critic of Drogba on the old CSR. Even before he had pulled on a blue shirt in anger you regularly voiced the opinion that he was going to be an expensive waste of money. A player with very limited ability. Now that, is NOT my imagination. That happened. Your arguments with Wicksy, (who knew quite abit about Drogba's career in France), were long, many and not easily forgotten. The comparison I raise with Jimmy. Does not cease to be a valid comparison solely on the basis that I didn't rate Jimmy. Or that you percieve it as an obsession. Yes, I do go to games and hear fans singing Drogba's name. But it is by no means universal. And I also hear fans sitting around me who regularly slag Drogba off. On the playing side Drogba has helped us win two EPL titles and numerous cups he should be revered by the fans. All the fans. He isn't. You only have to look at the posts on this site to realise that as a truth. Rightly or wrongly, (wrongly IMO), he isn't loved and respected by the majority for his contribution to Chelsea football club. And yet, Jimmy was. Despite not having contributed half as much in terms of effort and sheeer ability, and whilst also still having all of the same faults as Drogba has. As I said I can't really figure that one out and, despite offering your own personal view on Jimmy the player, your previous post did nothing to answer that question. I think maybe Lofty has got it right with this: I still think the overall negative perception towards Drogba is based on the personal rather than footballing abilities, or maybe more accurately, the perception of his personality, attitudes, etc.

Dear me. Do you feel better for that?

I agree totally. And that perception is shaped to a huge degree by the media's characterisation of him.

I'm sorry Lofty, but I don't agree with that. Of course he has off days like any other footballer but, from where I sit and watch, he doesn't have many below average games at all. He is often isolated in the formation we play and by the service he gets but his work ethic alone means he rarely rates less than a 6 or 7 for me. It really is an incredibly hard task playing as a lone central striker. Very few centre-forwards can do it and make it work. Sheva and Anelka certainly can't.

mod- try to seperate the footballer from his non footballing actions for a sec maybe. just because a player is good at football doesn't mean he's allowed to consistently disrespect the club that pays his wages, the fans that go and support him- he let the side down in the champions league final, how can you expect people to not be annoyed? will we miss him when he goes? yeah, of course. but we won't disappear into league one- we won two titles with him overall more a hindrance than a benefit IMO, and even yesterday, we fought our way back into the game despite a low key performance from drogba himself. even this season, he's been missing for large chunks, and we've got more points than we did last season. when he goes I'll wish him good luck and remember all his great performances, and there have been many, but honestly a part of me will be relieved the drogba show is over and hopefully the next striker, however good or bad he is, doesn't view us merely as a stepping stone. I do agree with much of what you have to say about Drogba. It's no good keeping any player who really wants to go. However, I know I've said this before, but personally, I don't get too upset about players spouting off in the press. Jimmy, LeBouef, Carvalho, Drogba the list is as long as your arm over recent years. Whether it's because they all have massive egos or its the footballing culture they have been raised in I don't know. But it seems to be the way with certain foreign players. I don't like it much, but I can live with it provided they do the business out on the pitch. And for me, Drogba has done the business on the pitch. You may have missed it G4 but I did make a valid comparison a while back that Jimmy displayed many similar foibles to Drogba, (fell over at the slightest contact, voiced discontent to the press, moaned constantly at team-mates and officials), and yet, while Drogba is reviled, Jimmy was universally loved by the majority of Chelsea fans. I can never get my head around this. For example, when I used to raise the subject of Jimmy's constant on-pitch whining, (which used to drive me mad), most people just shrugged it off and said, "yeah so what? That's just how he is." Now for me, that is as clear a case of double standards as you will ever see. Being honest, I do always suspect that there is a bit of a hidden agenda in your views on Drogba G4. Even before we brought him, (much to the chagrin of you, Pauly and Henry), whilst people such as myself, Barak and Wicksy could see could see the quality he had about him, you scoffed and constantly highlighted what you perceived to be his limitations as a footballer. A farmer? Wasn't that the label you and Pauly famously bestowed on him? Of course he has subsequently proved you both fabulously wrong on that count and shown himself to be one of the very best forwards in the world. Perhaps, maybe that still rankles somewhat?

Gutted for you Rob. Hope you got your money back mate.

UEFA has some prize tossers in its organisation but Galliard is the biggest by far. He hates us with real passion. How he got to keep his job after being proven a complete liar over the Friskgate affair in Barcelona tells you all you need to know about UEFA and the man.

Wouldn't be the first time we've done that.

Lots of reports in the media this morning of trouble around Stamford Bridge after the result last night. Apparently only 12 people arrested, but police had to baton charge fans. I couldn't watch the penalties and I was walking past The Pelican when the window had a couple of bottles thrown through it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7414158.stm

In terms of how we compare with United at the moiment there really is nothing between the two sides overall. Not a fag paper. However, that could change over the summer because I think it's going to get really interesting now. Possiblity of big, big changes with question marks over the likes of Frank and Carvalho moving on, Drogba definately leaving and Maka possibly becoming more of a fringe player. And of course not forgetting numerous squad players like Sidwell, Ben Haim, SWP, Pizarro etc likely to be shipped out. And before all that's done, there's the management situation to be resolved. It's gonna be a busy close season at Stamford Bridge.

I must have watched a different game. He was slow, outwitted, and didn't defend for most of the first half. The only time we got forward down the left was when JC switched with him early in the second half. If he is still there next season it should be as a cone on the training pitch so Scott Sinclair can practice his dribbling skills... Jesus Sas. Top man. I can go to bed and leave it to you. You're on fire.

I heard, just handbags in a few pubs apparently. Good news, im sure tempers and glasses ran a bit high Couldn't watch the penalties. So strolled from The King's Road back up to the Fulham Road. Walked past The Pelican just as the windows got stoved in. To be honest, probably an improvement.

Sas, you've only made 31 posts. Shame. You should get on here more often because that post is top quality.

Funny but I disagree strongly. I'm more inclined to blame Vidic and Tevez, the mongoloid twirp, rather than one of our own players. But that's probably just me. Supporting Chelsea rather than United. Defo Tevez acted like the cheating inbred argy he is. But he didnt lift DD's hand to slap Vidic. If he was on the pitch after ET Terry would have been #6 on the penalty list and thus maybe not required. His antics over the seasons have caught up with him as far as the media and referees go, they wont take his sh*t no more. Oh for f**k's sake com'on. If JT had slapped Vidic for his mock "hard man" act, we'd all be standing up and clappping our hands.

Funny but I disagree strongly. I'm more inclined to blame Vidic and Tevez, the mongoloid c**t, rather than one of our own players. But that's probably just me. Supporting Chelsea rather than United.

Anywhere near Stamford Bridge. Pubs and bars in The Fulham Road or Kings Road. Everywhere will be packed.

I feel the same Lofty. But I think I know why. It's because I'm not going, (yes, despite having brought a ticket and yes, despite being a member of the Chelsea european away scheme). Even writing the words now, I still can't quite believe it. If anyone had said I wouldn't be there to see Chelsea in a Champion's League final I'd have laughed in their face. Even up until yesterday I still had hopes of being out there. But, due to the cost, work committments and other things that are happening right now, I won't. I have friends who are at the train station in Riga as I type this. I have friends who are getting on planes tomorrow morning. But not not me. I haven't made it. Do you know, I actually feel like I'm letting the team down. Stupid I guess but that is how I feel.