Nibs

Not sure. Perhaps I'll look back on Lamps in years to come and admit that maybe he was a legend of sorts. But for me legends are players you look back on when they've finished playing. It's hard for me to say a player like Lamps is a legend, when as good as he cat times I also see him playing some very average stuff at times to. I guess when a player hangs up his boots, we all then look back on their careers wearing the old rose tinted and you happily forget their short comings and remember all the good bits. Perhaps legend is a word that should only be reserved for the very special few. I prefer to list players that I enjoy to watch and IMO can do things with a football that not many others can. The players who make you realise that you could never have become a professional footballer as you will never be able to do the sort of things that they did in a game. Not your run of the mill modern day athlete, but footballers with untold ability. Zola Nevin Di Canio Gascoigne Le Tissier Cantona Messi And yes, Joe cole. There are no doubt more but I was on my lunch break and have had to rush this!!!

G4. Quiet Tuesday evening? Not much on the TV? (I was at a quiz night and our team finished a respectable 5th out of 16 - a sort of Everton/Villa type performance!!). Anyway you don't need to write a post of Kenn type proportions to convince me of Lamp's value. Very well listed and most of it I agree with but it still won't make him a legend IMO (now if he had got hold of that same page 3 girl that Joe did and took a beating for....................... ) As I say, he is a great player for us but I've always been one to take stats with a pinch of salt. Some you can't argue with but stats like covers most distance? What like Carlton Palmer used to? And made and completed a lot of passes - maybe so but then a lot of those are 5 yard passes back to JT. But hey, on the whole I agree with you and the fact that you admit that Joe has more talent than Frank is more than enough for me. I just hope he gets a decent chance to use it and soon.

Of course Joe hasn't achieved half of what Frank has - he doesn't get the bloody chance to!!! Look, the last thing I want to do is to turn this into is a Joe vs Frank thing - everyone knows my personal bias for JC but then I also do rate Lamps very highly (he's just not legend status in my book!!) and both would be in my starting 11 every week (as long as in form). But my obvious answer is, would Frank have scored anything like the number of goals he has or produced the assists he has if he'd suffered the same sort of treatment Joe has - sub this week, sub next week, starts the week after that but taken off at half time etc etc etc. And if all the free kicks and penalties were taken away? Lamps has done great, but he has benefited hugely from being in favour with the coach who selects the team. People can argue that he gets selected all the time because he is so good, but there have been many occasions where his form has been average and many matches where he should have been subbed but it never happens. Joe Cole is not a legend either, but he certainly could be, given the chance. I still stand by the opinion that he is capable of doing things for us that no other player is capable of and that includes Frank (goal against Man Utd being a prime example).

he's a chelsea legend- like I said. and what sofa manager said. would you debate that? Yeah - I think I would actually. For me there is a difference between a very good player and a "legend". Lamps has had some great seasons for us and one exceptional season but at times, as a player, he can be pretty ordinairy. and the original statement of "Frank Lampard is a living legend. Joe Cole is a wanabee legend". is wide of the mark.

I guess we all have different views of what makes a legend. When people talk of legends they tend to be speaking of the Greaves, Best's Moore's and Pele's etc. At this time, Lampard doesn't even come close to any of those. At club level he's been great for us of course he has, but I still think the term legend is way OTT, but each to their own.

The thing is Barn, Wenger really does seem to have the knack of knowing when to let the players go and the knack of getting replacements that in many cases turn out even better. He has off-loaded the likes of Vierra, Petit, Pires, Overmars and now Henry but probably all at the right time - after their best playing days were behind them. He now has the foundations of a very good and young side (keeper excepted - thank God they didn't get Carol off us as well).

There we go with the over use of that word again. Lampard is a good player but he still hasn't done enough IMO to be termed that.

Have to agree with C3blu. Many of us have already gone on record on Jose's not that great transfer dealings and the signs are that they are not getting any better. Great coach and motivator he maybe and his ability to instill a winning mentality in his teams is not in question. But our squad now is definitely not as good as was a season or two back and what is more worrying is that other teams do look significantly stronger. It's easy to forget how these thing always go in circles and whereas we looked totally dominant not so long ago, now we have a squad with a fair number of cracks. I am not basing this on one defeat but on how we've looked for some time. Ok the Villa defeat was our first in the league since January at Anfield, but how many times have we really impressed during that time and looked anything like a team of world-beaters? And how many times when we go behind in a game do we resort to hoofing it long and push our centre backs up to play alongside Drogba? That panic type play which should only be a very last resort is used time and again and that for me says a lot about how unbalanced our squad currently is. We should never have signed Ballack and Sheva. The Sidwell signing is look increasingly a very strange one (if he can't get in the squad when Ballack and Lampard are out when can he expect a game???). Mikel too worries me greatly. Great potential but at times he just looks too laid back for his own good and at the moment he looks to me like a player believing all his own hype. But now if he carries on playing like this, we no longer have the option to play Diarra as that's another great young talent we've let go to one of our biggest rivals???

The loss of Diarra to the bloody Gooners has really pissed me off. Can't understand it. And to rub salt into the wound is the "undisclosed fee" bollox. Why do they ever do this - why can't people come clean. We know we've been mugged - we want to know how badly

Very Sad News. Didn't know Nick personally but felt that I got to know him through his posts. Condolences to all his family and friends - he will be missed. R.I.P.

Totally agree. He looked a great little player and this is yet another bad bit of business by us. Letting good young players go whilst we continue to bring in older players whose best days are behind them. What's going on? Nothing will be more of a choker than seeing a club like Arsenal benefiting from one of our players. Their midfield could be awesome in a year or two.

Very few players are irreplaceable. It's all down to form and if you're playing well you should be picked and if you're not you have to raise your game to get selected. Of course the problem is when everyone is playing well so who then misses out? And although no player should be irreplaceable, some coaches (naming no names) go very near to making them just that - or should we say "untouchable". Some players fall in that group (seemingly regardless of any dip in form), others will have to accept that they will never be one of the chosen few, however well they may perform at times. And although he hasn't played much for us since recovering from last seasons injuries, he has been selected and performed pretty well for his country during that time. Ok, so I know the competition for places is fiercer at Chelsea than it currently is at England, but it is still pretty amazing that you are almost a nail on starter for your country but have to continually prove yourself for your club (or your clubs coach anyway). I think Liam is right.

Which funnily enough is what we should also be seeing down at the Bridge more often. Ok, I Know - in the words of Vic Reeves - "He wouldn't let it lie".....................

29 Ten Men and 'is dog......................Nigel Coombs - Nibs Didn't want to admit that's me - what with me being down the bottom. Shows what I know about football. (That's what you get when you have Joe Cole in your F***ing side!!!)

Yeah. Of course you're right. What was I thinking of. I've been foolishly blinded by the odd bit of show boating. He's rubbish really. Get Rid. We need a team of strapping six footers who can play and understand the modern game and help us dominate world football for many years to come. And if SWP wants to continue to be a part of it he best find himself a grow bag. I just don't think he warrants a place in the team at the moment. Alan, I wasn't having a pop at you - sorry if it came across that way. As the old cliche goes, this game is all about opinions. If that is your opinion - fair enough. But to say he doesn't warrant a place in the team? For me that's like saying Zola didn't warrant a place in the side back in his prime. Great little player, but his overall game just doesn't warrant him getting picked. That said, as much as Zola is viewed upon as a complete Legend by many Chelsea fans, perhaps he should be grateful that he wasn't part of the Mourinho era, as I honestly can't see how Mourinho would fit Zola into his current set up. And Barak, that last paragraph of yours (before the ps), is spot on. Brilliantly put.

Yeah. Of course you're right. What was I thinking of. I've been foolishly blinded by the odd bit of show boating. He's rubbish really. Get Rid. We need a team of strapping six footers who can play and understand the modern game and help us dominate world football for many years to come. And if SWP wants to continue to be a part of it he best find himself a grow bag.

I fear you may be right Liam. I know you are not a Mourinho fan and I have had many a gripe during his time to date. I don't like the way he favours certain players and seems happy to grind games out. Go 1--0 up and then shut up shop. Hate the "Death of Football" midfleld. Don't like the way he is so ungracious in defeat or when things don't go his way - it always seems to be somebody else's fault. But I do still admire him in many ways. He is a winner and I guess you have to accept the bad with the good, as hard as that may be at times. After all, who can argue with his record - still undefeated at the Bridge during all that time. But in Joe's case, you could well be right. Perhaps under Mourinho he is only ever going to be a bit player and he does deserve more than that. Makes you realise why someone like Le Tissier staid at Southampton like he did. Okay, it may have shown a complete lack of ambition, but at least he can look back on his career (albeit a pretty unfulfilled one) and know that his clubs fans will always view him as a legend. If he had have moved to a big club, perhaps he could foresee the kind of thing Joe is going through now. If it was me and I had the sort of skill and ability that Joe has or a Le Tissier had, I think I would rather play week in week out and enjoy my football, rather than pick up honours and medals but have that pretty empty feeling in knowing that you didn't contribute anywhere near as much as you should have.

With that last comment I wasn't referring to SWP & Malouda. On that basis you are suggesting that Joe can only ever be picked as a wide player. He plays wide or not at all? Okay, so he may have been pretty effective from a wide position but we all know he's more than just that. I was talking about in the past when the likes of Ballack, Lamps get selected time after time even when their form was nowhere near great. All I'm getting at is that some players appear to be able to have good games and bad games and it's not a problem. With Joe he can have a great game one week but if his form dips the next he pays with his place. So you're right, SWP and Malouda have had a good(ish) start to the season and I would agree, it would be harsh to drop them to make way for Joe. But that said, neither were that good against Pompey nor were they that great against Liverpool either so if either or both fail to shine if selected against Villa, one would assume Joe will get his chance in the next game. On the other hand...........................

I hope there is little in this but would not be at all surprised if there is not at least a grain of truth in it. After all, how can a player of Cole's ability be happy at getting 10 minutes here and 15 minutes there. And this after one of his main rivals for a place (Robben) has moved on and when he appears to be a nail on starter for his country but not for his club. How many times does he have to "knuckle down and prove himself" when others seem to walk in to the team regardless of form? It must be demoralising to keep running up & down that touchline, hearing the fans chant your name and then not be given enough time to make any real impact on a game. Throughout Mourinho's time, Cole has come under fire on numerous occasions and never seems to get the praise when he does come good as the likes of Lampard etc do. I just hope this gets nipped in the bud now and we see Cole getting a lot more chances to prove his worth. I know I have not been over concerned about Robben going, but if Joe did get to the point where he'd just had enough and left, that would mean in the last two seasons we had lost Eidur, Duffer, Robben and Joe and that is too many "flair" players to lose without it having an effect of some sort. Back to route one I guess.......................

We've missed him against Pompey and Liverpool already (although he didn't usually perform against Liverpool) It wasn't just Liverpool though - there were plenty of big games (and some not so big) where Robben never turned up. I did say "on the whole" we won't miss him and I'll stand by that. There will always be times you will miss a player like Robben for what he perhaps could have brought to a game. But now we have Malouda and Joe who can both play on the left and be more consistent threats than Robben ever was. I will however be prepared for the first post after Robben scores his first goal for Madrid with the inevitable "Look what we're missing"!!!

Good to see there are still those clutching at straws.

Nice thread for German-Blue - although I expect he spends a lot more time on the Real Madrid fans forum these days. Good to remember his best bits but for the record, on the whole, I don't think we'll miss him.

Surely not weaker? I mean' date=' who came first, the man or the woman? [img']{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Well talking from my own experience it's always the man.

Belated post. Went to game Saturday and computer at home seems to have died so had to wait to get back to work (well I should be working anyway!) Best bits about Saturday, getting together with my brother and standing outside the White Hart in the well overdue sunshine and just soaking up the occasion and supping up the cold lager. First time in the Shed for a long while and it was great to be back in there. Singing "we're the middle of the Shed" - last time I sang that would have been about 20 years ago. Brilliant!! Just great to attend a game again where the singing started well before the kick off and continued throughout - although the team did not help matters with a very lacklustre display. The match itself was pretty forgettable unfortunately. I know it was hot out there but lets not have excuses about players having already played too much football with internationals etc. We looked very lethargic and there seemed to be few players with any ability to effect the game at all. Was most disappointed with Mikel - he was really poor but then again no-one was great. Can't give a man of the match as once again, no-one really deserves it. Was really looking forward to seeing the likes of SWP and Malouda running at defenders but it never really happened. Won't go on and on about Joe only getting a lousy 15 minutes but what the f***?....................................................... In the end, have to admit that Pompey were very unlucky not to get a point and we have David James to thank for that.

I think nibs entered that side into the fantasy football league. Love it!!! That is actually a pretty decent looking side if you ask me. Not sure about the keeper though. I've heard Joe has a brother who can be pretty useful between the sticks.