Paddy

Absof**kinglutley. If Havertz isn’t aware that he is playing rubbish at the moment, then we have even bigger problems that we already imagine. Study well, exam starts at 3.30 or when ever he gets home from school - was a bit later yesterday, must of had detention perhaps ? Absof**kinglutley. Thanks for your insightful commentary from your professional understanding of the Tom foolery that statistical analysis can be. Its the ”kings new clothes; 🎼 🎶........look at the king, look at the king, look at the king, the king, the king !.......... 🎼🎵 🎼 🎶......the king was in the all together , but all together , the altogether, He’s all together as naked as the day that he was born.......................... 🎼🎵 and so on and so on ........... (apologies to those who don’t got a Danny la Rue)

Yeah, I’m thinking it means Germanic or of old school German/northwestern European origins , hence Fritz rather than Fitz - yeah I know, it’s a shocker, I’m already heading for the naughty step !!

Clue - if the post you refer to was from Fritz , would that make more sense ?

In old money, this meant mum had a back ache from the ironing board being at the wrong height

I didn’t see last nights game but the board tells the tale of the tape. The worrying thing is there doesn’t seem to be an alternative to a FL team set up in FL’s head at the minute - big man up front and width at all costs ? Which is fine when all the width is available and functioning, but when it ain’t - what’s plan B ? It’s evident that just giving a player a bib that says ‘winger’ or ‘centre forward’ doesn’t necessarily make him so. Personally been advocating going 3 at the back with the recent run of results and performances. with James, Chilwell, Azpi and Alonso giving the width in this particular moment because currently our team formation/selection is soooo predictable and opposition managers must be praying that Havertz gets picked because, frankly, he’s been appalling - the number of under hit passes v Everton were embarrassing for a professional footballer - it’s very near to playing with only 10 v 11. I’m beginning to wonder if we miss that ‘Chelsea man’ type of player in the team ? - the sort who love the club, genuinely kiss the badge and would run through plate glass for the cause - aka Terry, Lampard,Azpi ? Silva it isn’t. Maybe Azpi offers more than just the game he plays ? I think we need a leader on the pitch firing a few f**ks into people, leading by example and reminding them what it means to be playing for Chelsea imo. Someone told me last night that Havertz and Werner were Angela Merkel’s and the German nations revenge for Brexit - I would have laughed if it wasn’t so ridiculously close to being true !!

Didn’t see the game, went for a pre London tier 3 lockdown curry , sounds like I was the lucky one ? Blimey Malta, Dutch ovens and do I remember you sorting out Giroud’s sperm from your lady’s wotsname ? You know how to spoil a girl

No need for Billy to go anywhere even though he still has a lot to learn - not least of which is the weight of pass !!! his opportunity v Liverpool was delightful to watch and he gave a better than good account of himself - he once again showed why he is such a prospect v Krasnodar in mid-week. The elephant in the room with Billy is his stature, but, imo, it’s only a problem if he doesn’t continue to develop his skill set to accommodate his physical limitations and history shows us plenty successfully have - I don’t believe that he won’t either. For my two penneth worth, let’s keep him with the first team squad, nurture and mould him into the player that he and we want him to be - as far as I can see he’s plenty good enough to develop within the squad and he will definitely get game time in this fixture crazy season and let’s be honest, what cost for bringing in a player to replace him and why would you ??

Yeah, I’m with you on that one, beats the sh*te out of crying out “oh for a Brazilian, living under an italian flag and plying his trade in England !” Imagine the amount of time saved too ! I also personally think skipping is overrated, surely a hop, skip and jump doesn’t exist in the Germanic psyche - does it ?

I don’t know about last years Chelsea, but I have to disagree that the players had nothing to play for ? What you suggest might make sense if the team that played Leeds played last night, but surely it must have meant something to the players who played in this game in respect of breaking into the match day squad, starting 11 or even their Chelsea future ? I can’t imagine it was meaningless to Billy G for example and Tammy was surely desperate to impress ? Admittedly it was a dead rubber, but given the lack of competitive football due to COVID-19 last nights game would have been seen as invaluable to FL to blood new players, combinations and systems in a real match - no way would FL have not wanted this game played imo.

Alleluia Valerie, good to know I’m not alone then - from what you posted last night I don’t think you got to watch yesterdays game, if you didn’t then you were fortunate, pretty dire in all honesty - just as we start to play fluent-ish football, last night was very much like a leaner driver kangaroo-ing up the street in the wrong gear - maybe not entirely surprising given the changes. I too am confidently hopeful (is that sitting on the fence?) that Werner and Havertz will become forces to be reckoned with, but just quietly, wouldn’t it be wonderful if Rudi could join them ?!! And even if nothing else becomes of them, at least they destress penalty taking !!!!

For me, all the stats and graphic displays don’t really mean anything - I realise I’m old and out of touch, but I’m used to watching a sporting event and forming an opinion, I couldn’t specifically prove why, for instance, Mason Mount is such a talent, I couldn’t say nor am I interested in how many times he touched the ball, headed the ball, passed the ball (forwards) or (backwards) , how many kms he’s run, nor how fast or how far and at what % completion success rate - all the statistical analysis in the world won’t change or alter the opinion I formed whilst watching the boy play. I don’t deny that the statistical side of the game has its place to those who ‘understand it’ , but there in lies the rub, it may well ‘make sense’ to some (or at least they would have us believe it does) but they use it like a bludgeon to try and prove a point and presenting me with a factoid full of %’s is almost like asking me to translate Russian into English - I don’t get it and frankly, I’m less than interested ? Smacks to me of Hans Christian Anderson’s parable , “The Kings New Clothes” ?

Just to be clear and for the avoidance of any doubt, I don’t believe that I am levelling any criticism at Havertz, so if you think I am then, I apologise and for the record, it isn’t my intention to do so as part of this particular thread. I was responding to your earlier post where you said that it would take 2 years of further development before Havertz could be judged and my reply was that for £70+ million I expected more right now - I’ve qualified it and cited that I am most likely being naive and out of touch with the current footballing market values, I’ve factored in his age, his new country/team issues, his COVID problem, he didn’t set his transfer value, etc, but I haven’t said he will or won’t be a great - time will tell us that. Once more for the record, I hope and expect Havertz to come good - my issue is for the money he cost, I’m currently somewhat disappointed .

Well ‘they’, ALL those people, may well be correct in their expectations that he definitely will, but right now, for me, it’s a definite maybe 🤔

Tammy was Tammy again tonight - works his arse off undoubtedly, but no end product - missed a header that he seemed to have plenty of time and room to convert - no anticipation for the Werner cross ?

Perhaps I’m being naive, but for £70+ million, I was expecting a player that would be more ‘ready’ now than Havertz seems and certainly sooner than 2 years ? I get that he’s young and still learning/developing, I understand that he’s settling into a new country and perhaps the fastest and best football league in the world, I realise that he’s had COVID and is still, perhaps, suffering some issues as a consequence and above all, it wasn’t his decision to be priced at tens of millions he cost nor did he hold a gun to Chelsea’s head to pay that, but I must out of touch , £70+ million for potential ? Fingers crossed he fulfils that potential and FYI , I’m happy that he’s ours so no need for pages of stats to show how wrong I am - thank you .

I don’t underestimate how hard he works, nor how fast he runs or the numerous good positions that he regularly gets himself into, I’m with you all the way on those points and you will know that I would pick him before any other to partner Giroud but he’s not world class, yet. To be world class, IMO, you need to be outstanding in your position, you need to perform and achieve consistently at the highest level and over a sustained period of time, I don’t believe he has yet done that - hopes are high though.

Not sure about proven world class striker ? but ‘missing’ is part of who he is at the moment, the significant thing for me is that he so often gets himself into a position to attempt to score even though he is not playing in a central striker position, so I agree with you, leave him at outside centre and let Giroud provide that traditional centre forward role and between them they will score goals. My big big worry is Tammy, he always gives a 100% , but there is something missing, timing, anticipation, application - at times he is awkward ?? Dunno if there is much coming through, Borja ?? Suppose we’ll have to see how his loan goes, but It’s a big step up - Frank may need to get Roman’s cheque book out, Giroud’s surely only got this season and maybe next left at this level ?

What makes you think that he will ever play as a traditional centre forward ? Was he bought to mainly be a centre forward ? Dunno about that ? I think some of us are fixated on an assumed Pulisic/Werner/Ziyech starting front three that was talked about at the start of the season, but I think that combination, not unreasonably, only ever existed in our imaginations - especially mine - and maybe never in FL’s ? Why wouldn’t Timo continue to play alongside Giroud in an outside right role, with Pulisic as his opposite on the left - seems to me that that system works well and I think FL does too, which is why he continues to pick OG, or previously TA, to start in that central role. Werner has played in the outside right position with mixed results, but you can’t deny the amount of scoring opportunities he has had (and missed!), whilst Giroud has had great success on the scoring front in these past couple of games and look at the assist on Saturday for Pulisic’s goal - his run and cross was exciting and sensational to watch . I like the Pulisic/Giroud/Werner combination, I’d stick with it - the worry is that Tammy isn’t convincing in the Giroud role - that needs fixed - Tammy has to improve or another CF is brought in, cause Giroud, at 34, won’t be around for too much longer ? Only my opinion of course.

The one thing that is obvious to me is that Kepa has to start - I don’t want him to really and I’m sure very few others do either but as long as FL keeps picking him as Mendy’s match day back up, you have to plan for him having to come on in a game because EM is injured and therefore he will need to continue playing until either an alternative is found or Mendy recovers sufficient to play. it would be foolhardy, IMO, to not play Kepa in a meaningless game where the result has zero impact, to ‘test’ him out - if he is truly awful and/or continues to f**k up, then it’s FL opportunity to go to the board for a January loan or purchase a new keeper - in the mean time it might give him some sort of a lift ?

Lots of criticism of Werner for missing loads and he does, I believe that’s the sort of player he is and we have to accept that out of 10 opportunities he may only convert 2 or 3 - has anyone considered that this is something that FL also realises and that’s why he plays Werner out wide with a goal scoring centre forward like Giroud ? Let’s be honest, if our centre forward can get 20 + goals a season and our ‘wingers” chip in with a few, that can’t be so bad can it ? At least he puts himself in a position to ‘miss’ and they weren’t all “missed” their goalie pulled off a couple of decent stops, but the goal line clearance was just - ffs !!!!!! Also for someone who can’t or shouldn’t play as a winger, he did a f**king good impression of one when he set up Pulisic for his goal.

Wow, where are you that it takes 10 mins for 2 minutes to advance ? sounds like you got some sorta space, time continuum going on ?? strangly enough, I know exactly what you mean ?

When the team selection got declared, I almost posted that this wasn’t a team to win in Seville ( or keep a clean sheet I told my mates ) - shows you what I know !!, but I too was expecting a much harder game, Rennes were more threatening than Seville ?! Anyways, fabulous outcome, so pleased for Oli - well done mate, but also pleased for the other “lesser lights” in the starting eleven, who have often been the brunt of our annoyance, angst and ignorance too. Lets hope finishing top doesn’t come back to bite us arses init.

I’m sorry, I genuinely don’t understand ? Are you suggesting that it’s something that he is doing that is the cause of his injuries?

Looking forward to seeing Billy and finding out if he really is player that I/we thought he might be before he got injured ? Not sure that he gets anytime tomorrow, but it’s nice that he’s fit again and part of the squad. I certainly hope hope that, like Mount and James, he’s good enough to become a genuine first team regular.

Says it all and very well said too imo.