Chippy

Quality comes at a cost and it's all about deciding if you want to be out in front of everyone else when everything's running right but be prepared to spend a few quid on parts to keep everything running sweet or you're happy to be well behind the thoroughbreds at the front but happy enough to get out your trusty mig welder every time the M O T's almost due. Class comes at a cost but we haven't won many titles with budget motors have we?

Are people on here that were undecided about Jose a couple of games ago, the people who watched the CL draw, the win against Villa and hoped we had started on the road to recovery really deciding it's time to give up on him because of a loss away at an in form West Ham, an in form West ham that have already taken the scalps of a lot of the title chasers and looked better than they have for years under their new manager? Even without crediting them with some good form we still gave them a proper game, away from home and down to ten men with a makeshift back line, a back up goalkeeper and with a goal unluckily ruled offside and another where if the ball had have had a nail file rubbed over the edge for ten seconds would have been clearly over the line? I thought the performance carried on from the last two in being a minor improvement, ok Jose has shown he can be flustered and react badly but the man is the best around and very used to winning, it's painful and humiliating to be that good and make mistakes. What will be painful and humiliating for Chelsea is if they give up on him and he comes back with another team to again show us what we could have had while we take the revolving door out and just put in a set of those plastic curtain wind breakers to get the next few managers in and out a bit easier.

There isn't a manager out there that would be an improvement, I'd liken getting rid of Jose to having a misfire on your Ferrari trying a set of plugs but still having a misfire so opting to let someone else have it and getting yourself a replica sat on an MR2 thinking it'll be better.

Lets face it Bobby, anyone who has left the club would be better than those who have been kept on, anyone on the bench would be better than the starting eleven and anyone in the squad would be better than those on the bench. Any Manager would be better than the idiot we have at the moment and make better choices while bringing through youngsters and having us win the quad. when truthfully Matic is far better than Luiz in midfield and Zouma at his young age is arguably more reliable in defence although for being a laugh and having fellainiesque hair I'd say we really should have turned that fifty million down. We've sold some talented players for good money and we've got some great players not playing to their ability...why do people think the ones that have gone would miss out on the current malaise that's spread through the squad? My guess is they'd be as out of form as the one's that are here now and we'd be a few quid lighter.

^^ Totally Agree Coco, just highlighting that some bad luck was involved today and it could have turned out a lot different.

I'd pretty much agree with that team Coco excepting maybe if Pedro is fit for the game I'd probably give Baba another chance to get some game time at LB, swich Azpi for Zouma and leave Hazard out for Pedro. I think the only way we'll get to see Baba start is with Pedro ahead of him and Zouma is no improvement on Ivan for me in fact he makes Ivan look good going forward :-)

Comparing this image to the one earlier in the thread makes it look a bit of a tight decision

For all the excuses to be fair today I think we were unlucky, at first showing I thought Fabregas was level and the goal should have stood, then I saw the replay and thought he was just off, a picture on the net I saw seems to show him level and the evening standard of all people say he was on. http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/west-ham-2-chelsea-1-five-things-we-learnt-from-upton-park-a3098501.html Either way it was unlucky as he was pretty near onside if he wasn't level and the Costas defensive clearance that led to their first goal was pretty unlucky. Matic getting himself sent off was unlucky in that the ref waived play on on the second offence only for the linesman to wave his flag around again and change his mind so Matic being silly and the linesman being adamant at the same time was a tad unlucky...The way we got back into the game was promising and if it wasn't for a cross from where the rock that is Ivan would have been, the ponytailed one wouldn't have been able to out muscle Azpilicueta for the second. Add to that the chance Hazard created that Ramires (although he had a decent game) scuffed late on and considering the time spent down to ten men and the way West Ham are playing under Bilic, I think we were unlucky. Jose isn't used to losing and he isn't taking to it well but I can understand with all his talk of decisions and bad luck up to now how this game would have got him really seeing red, not a good thing but something I'll be happy enough to forgive once he gets his act together which would have been a step closer today if it wasn't for ... well for some bad luck and dodgy decisions.

I thought for spells today we looked decent, not sure what you think of the way West Ham are playing but not many Championship side would live with them in this form if you gave them an extra man let alone one less.

I think you're on the right track with that, I do think the excuses about decisions and bad luck (even though justified to an extent) are playing on some of the players minds and almost giving them a bit of a cop out. Jose needs to think hard about his behaviour as it realy doesn't help and decisions don't get turned over because a manager complains as on field the ref won't change a decision because the players surround him. I think he'll be quite happy with the way the boys played today, Mata was stupid and I hope Jose realises this is the frame of mind that some of them are thinking is th norm and gives him a rocket, Mikel actually looked good today and as Coco said somewhere really should start instead of Fabregas to help sure things up...his chance should come with Matic missing a game and for me it would be next to RLC. Willian was superb again and I think had we kept eleven v eleven we'd have won today and the posts on here would be of a revival instead of an eminent sacking. I think we'll see a different attitude next game or I'll start believing Jose is missing something about the players mindsets but I'm confident he's seen it.

I think attitude was abig problem today and even I would say Jose needs to reign his own attitude in so he can instill a better one in the minds of some of these players. Matic lost us the game today, no two ways about it, neither of his Yellow card offences were really necessary and the look on his face wasn't what I'd like to see from a player that had in effect just handed the game to the opposition. I do put part of the blame on the way Jose has kept highlighting bad luck and bad refereeing decisions on some of the attitudes the players are showing, I think as soon as the slightest thing gos wrong there are some who are almost throwing a tantrum and just knowing the excuse at the end will be the same. That said I do think there has been improvement in the last three games and we showed a bit of spirit today in patches, the sending off really was a kick in the nuts and the offside goal played along with the excuses enough for the mood of the players to stay low. I still support Mourinho and think he deserves the season and to see how it pans out, we're not going to win the title this season with a change of manager and I think we'll struggle to make a CL place so for me letting go of a man who I don't believe has suddenly become a bad manager and bringing in someone who is very likely nowhere near as good would be a backward step, he's getting a lot of things wrong and his personality isn't helping but he's still worth a bad season if it takes that to get him back on track. Todays result could very easily have been different and if he is sacked because of it for me that would be a travesty.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to stop doing the decorating when the footballs on. If he wasn't a Chelsea player, a lot on here would be putting him on a pedestal to highlight another Jose mistake.

Probably about the 8th of August, obviously something isn't right but I don't think Willian and his work rate even with the perceived lack of end product is it.

It's all about opinions and mine is obviously different to yours on this one, I'd ask you to think for a minute about what is being asked of the player before making a comparison when the playing field isn't really equal...what I'm getting at is maybe compare Mata when he tried to play the way Jose wanted, for me he was no where near as effective as Oscar, now think about the freedom De Bruyne has at City in comparison and try to weigh up how good he would be here carrying Oscars workload. I'd go so far as to guess that given the freedom those two players play with in their respective roles for their clubs now, Oscar would do a better Job, only my gut feeling but I feel sure if he were to leave here and be given more freedom (which he undoubtably would) he would be spoken of as one of Jose's mistakes (in letting him go) without the need for any exaggeration as in the case of some of the players that have left who have every decent kick of a ball highlighted as if they were the new Messi and Jose thought they wore brick boots. It really isn't a form thing when I say I'd play Oscar ahead of Fabregas, Cesc is a superb player until we have our backs to the wall and he is allowed a lot of freedom because of that, Oscar works hard and on occasions when he isn't forced into tracking and defending he is technically better than we see most weeks when he is a hardworking willing runner, I think there's a lot more to his game than his role allows us to see.

The way I look at it is when you support a club and the club has chopped and changed managers as we have, we finally get Jose back and know all about him, we know his faults (yes he has many) and we know his style of management comes at a cost but if we all put our sensible heads on we also know he is the best we've had and in the handful of best there is probably ever has been. For me this means no matter what my opinion on the players he keeps and the players he lets go (and I really liked De Bruyne, Shuurle and Mata) if he doesn't feel they can work in the system he wants to play or perform the way he wants them to who am I to imagine that from what I see of them I know better than him. Whatever he does with the players at his disposal I'm confident he wants to get the team winning and I'll put my faith in him to do that even if it costs the loss of some of my favourite players. I'm pretty sure he doesn't leave players out or leave them in with any agenda other than tryig to get the best out of them and I'm sure he wouldn't let any go if he thought they would play at the best of their abilities to his game plan, thats fair enough for any manager to ask in my book.

I wouldn't swap Oscar the Bozo for KDB or Mata, the boy is quality and should be in the team ahead of Fabregas in my opinion.

I think we actually had three players who could genuinely be worth a vote in the poll for this game which is hopefully a good sign, Matic looking like getting back to his better form, Azpi so consistent that he's always in the reckoning and Willian starting to behave the same way. I understand the posters who wouldn't vote for an attacking midfielder in a game that ended 0-0 where his best effort was a dead ball situation but for me without Willian we might have lost the game, his engine and his readiness to chase everything down must make defenders very nervy and for his attitude and willingness to keep doing it for the cause, he has to get my vote.

Anytime goalscorer and 1/2 Diego Costa / Chelsea 2-1 @ 18/1 Stake:£5 Estimated Returns : £95.00 If all gos well, half gos to the site as usual.

I'm not sure in Edens case he needs to prove the manager wrong, I'd say he needs to prove him right as Jose (as we all do really) knows Eden can do more, I can understand Eden feeling he needs to get his attacking play back to a decent level but he gets paid to do what the manager asks and Jose really likes players who work hard without the ball, it's ok being tagged as the next Ronaldo Messi or spoken about in the same breath as those players but the only way I can see Eden really being as big an influence on games as those two is if he can be nearly as good as them going forward but better defensively, then that is really some player we'd have there.

Jose may have stipulated defensive workrate but I'm sure if he was at his best going forward this situation wouldn't be happening, I think he was better defensively and obviously offensively kast season, he's never going to have Willians engine or workrate but he can still do better than he has been, that said I believe we can only have one luxury player in the starting eleven and Fabregas is for some reason the one who is getting off lightly, if we had a Messi, Neymar, or whoever else you mention then it's my belief that Jose would either want them to work the way he wants Eden to or he would have to leave Fabregas out of the team.

I'm not sure if you're purposely missing the point I was making but here it is again, Hazard unlike Mata who Jose let go (for a good profit) can play the way the manager is asking him to play, he done it last year and had more end product than he has had so far this season so for me Jose is right to ask more of him. Your question about Fabregas (again?) has me stumped as I've said many times, Fabregas wouldn't be in the team if it were my decision as he has no defensive qualities to speak of and he certainly wouldn't be playing a no 10 type role ahead of Oscar, that really isn't the issue as Jose knows Hazard can contribute a lot more than he is defensively and still create and score...Fabregas for me is a bit of a luxury that is more of a liability if any of our other midfielders shirk their defensive duties.

Matic's been dropped, Terry's been dropped, Cahill, Oscar, Pedro, I don't think it's a big deal that Hazard has had similar treatment, obviously the comments regarding his defensive contribution rake up memories of Mata but we have seen what happened when Mata tried to play to Jose's style and it didn't do his game too may favours...Eden on the other hand was the stand out player in the league last year doing a fair job of it. He doesn't look as fit as he did and maybe hasn't been training as hard or maybe it's still down to the poor preseason but there are players competing hard for the places in attacking midfield so it's only fair they get chances, Pedro wasn't great today either and I'd be more worried why Oscar isn't getting in especially if we are to see more of Ruben, I don't think Fabregas should be ahead of Oscar further forward. I expect Hazard to train hard and set out to impress on Jose that he is one of the most important players in the team, it's really up to him to do that and if he's as good potentially as we all think, he will do it.

Willian, always alert and gave the Villa defenders a torrid time when they tried to pass the ball out from the back on more than the occasion that led to the goal. I don't think we learned too much about Baba today but good that he got his League debut, RLC looked fine and had a good half, it was actually quite nice to see Matic come on even so, mainly to see him looking like he usually does and having a big impact on the flow of the game. Ramires done well and Fabregas did show a bit more of his passing skills although it is usually the games where we are on the back foot that he suffers.

I thought Richards in particular gave more than he got and clearly the Villa players wanted to wind Costa up, he played with agression and often a smile on his face and I thought he handled himself quite well.

good break there but a wrong decision from young RLC, early days