Chippy

I think if he grows a little goatee beard as well it will give him at least to the end of the season

Always worth another look

My take on it is Lukaku thought with Torres Ba and Eto'o he would only get limited starts and has Belgium to think of, the missed penalty may or may not have made him feel he wasn't quite ready for the pressure of competing here. Not sure if he asked for a transfer and Jose explained he'd like him to fight for the place but rather than a transfer, a loan might suit both parties better...if that was the case then niether are in the wrong and as usual its the press trying to make things here out to be some sort of mess, just like they do if the manager leaves a player on the bench or one of our players gets a mildly soft penalty. Jose could come out and tell everyone exactly what happened but I'm sure with the media and pundits questioning his every decision, he feels if Rom is happy to keep talking to the press, it would be best if he told them the whole story, I'm sure if Jose was feeling he'd got it wrong he would give a version of events rather than point the press back to Lukaku. I'd imagine Rom just wants Jose to keep in touch and tell him how well he's doing as he wants to feel he is doing enough to be here next season as the main man, I think he'll have to improve some aspects of his game and keep the goals going to be sure of that although I'd like to think Mourinho will have some contact with him at least to say "well done so far, keep it up".

It's difficult to think about the situation because growing up with an inbuilt hatred of Tottenham makes being sensible about the situation feel strange, that said I find myself better at rational thinking regarding teams I have hated all my life as I get older. For me I think AVB came to us a bit too early in his career, trying to get his views across (without the best man managemet skills) to players who had seen it all and done it all before, big personalities almost as old as him and trying to make big changes to the way they played was a recipe for disaster. Tottenham though I thought would be a different story, a club that had been a bit like ourselves in the nineties, able to play some great stuff on their day but inconsistent and always likely to be also rans, a flattering couple of seasons where they done ok under Harry gave them ambition and they went for a young manager with new ideas who had (like many before him) been given a job to do with us and and an obvious agenda to bring about a big transition, only to be sacked when player discontent and the inevitable form loss came about. For Spurs I thought (think) it was a good decision, doubtless a talented football brain, Boas in my opinion needs to work on his persona, getting players on side rather than alienating them when they don't fit with his plans and (depending on his relationship with the board) playing players that don't really fit if they are better than the ones that do until he can make more changes...that really applies to the likes of Defoe who although I realise doesn't fit the style AVB wants to have them playing, at this stage his form and fit to the premier league is better than Soldado (too late now obviously). I think the players owe him a big performance after the City game and through gritted teeth I hope he gets it, City were clinicle but watching the game it really wasn't quite as one sided as the scoreline suggests and the early goal really was a shocker and though they almost recovered, the second goal knocked the stuffing out of them and although they still got forward and had possesion, they looked (with the addition of Ade) like they had no belief, that for me stems from the unbelievable amount of missed chances they have created and the lack of confidence in the strikers. I don't for a minute think AVB is doing everything right but I do think he's a far better manager (and will improve) than anyone Tottenham have had in premiership years and better than anyone likely to come in as a quick fix, a Van Persie or an Aguero in Soldados shirt would have them in a far better position than they are now as defensively (bar last time out) and in midfield they have been doing well. I wouldn't like to call tomorrows result as a lot depends on the mood betweeen Andre and his players leading up to the game but if they are with him and there hasn't been too much blaming and shaming, I think they'll put in a good performance.

It seems to me that Jose is getting complaints for not playing players even though he's the one who coaches them and obviously plays the ones that are showing in training that they are able to follow his instructions. I can understand to an extent the criticism of Frank getting a lot of games, that said the competition for his place isn't strong as it doesn't look like Jose sees KDB in that position and realistically only Mikel or Essien look to be contenders. Arguing Shurrle should be getting more time while complainig that Mata isn't getting enough is another odd one for me, I think hes had opportunities and we'll see a lot more of him but as Jose has decided Oscar (who has only had one truely poor game) is his number ten then playing Andre would mean dropping Hazard or choosing him above Mata and Willian, exactly what I'd do but it's a close call and one Mourinho is likely to be a better judge of than I. Luiz has had opportunities and made mistakes, since losing his place he's picked up an injury and I expect to see him rotated with Cahill again in the not too distant future even though I feel safer with Gary in the back four there are times when Luiz will try to take the game by the scruff and thats something we could do with at times when its all gone flat like Tuesday night. I'm sure Mourinho can see all the things that we all do and has thought through the options, there's a real possibility that had he done things closer to what would please a lot of people looking on from the outside, that we would be in a worse position than we currently are and then the forum posts would be the same, just the players names would be different.

I think Mceachran is at the right club for now, if anyone cam bring him on I'd say Zolas influence can only be a good thing, lets face it we haven't got a youngster that could come in at this stage of the season and Jose will have to get the DM sorted out with the choices he has.

Float like a butterfly, Sting like a Bee

Really odd that Spurs have sold who in my opinion is their best striker, I don't want to write of Soldado in his first season as I'm sure he's better than we've seen but surely Boas has to have his eye on someone in the January window as although Defoe wasn't right for the way he wants to play, he will be missed especialy in their Europa run. It shows its not just us that have managers making wierd decisions.

The thing is Soulo you need to give the manager a bit of credit here, Mata has had chances and even if you feel on those occasions he's played well, you still don't know what Jose has asked him to do...you don't know if hes looked good to you but done little to follow the managers instructions and you don't know if he impresses in training, same wih Oscar, when you feel hes had a bad game, (last night was his only real bad one for me) you don't know if he has done everything Jose has asked of him in a defensive sense, the West Brom game people said he played badly but he was everywhere...did he choose to track back and defend to the detriment of his forward play or was it instructions? I can easily see why Oscar gets picked time and again, the odd thing so far was last night when he Mata for me would have been the obvious choice to replace him in a rare bad game and the fact that Mata doesn't get to start where Willian did although again Wilian does the defensive work better.

You say that but strangely our better performances seem to have come against the better sides, I think the players would have risen to the occasion.

That would be strange for me as Jose could bring him in at pretty much any stage and if he performed well and the result went our way, once the told you so brigade had said we had started winning purely because of his inclusion it would soon come about that to be in the team he must have added something to his game and made the Manager happy, I think thats what he needs to do as Oscar if very consistent and although looks less a threat than we remember Mata being, he is adapting to the way the manager wants him to play. I see where you're coming from but for me you're thinking too much into it and the fact that Jose has always said he is in his plans would make it very easy for him to pick him and say he feels hes ready now. I don't think we have looked a better team with Juan in it when hes had chances although as I said, last night with a tired Oscar, I wanted to see him get a chance.

I'd agree with that, the team looks unbalanced and its easy to sit one the sofa manager settee and think about the largely talented group of players and imagine there are a few options within the squad to help balance it. The one that springs to mind for a bit more balance is for me playing Oscar where Frank usually starts and Mata in Oscars place, then Azpi to give us an attacking threat on the right side, I'd then either have Shuurle or Hazard stay wide a bit more. I'm not sure that would give more balance but still wonder if Jose has tried something like it in training and its not been good or just is so sure Oscar is in his rightful place that he'll keep him there.

I don't mean to highlight your post as if to argue it Zola, more really to try to get some idea of what you mean? You picked up loosely on one of my possible explanations that have been bandied about and I find it one of the more odd ones. Why would Jose's ego mean he wouldn't play Mata? hopefully as its you and not some WUM I'll rule out Juans good looks so why else? if its because you feel that Jose won't play him because the Interim did, surely that would rule out everyone bar Eto'o and Willian Jose wants to be a winner, hes always been a winner, what sort of ego would he have to not play a player through any reasons other than purely Football ones? Cheers.

Surely someones taking the "p"

Most people on the site have their own thoughts on whats not right so far during the second coming of Jose so I thought I'd give people the chance to let us all know what their theory is. I'll list some of the often used reasons for starters as well I've heard all sorts but I'll put a few options out and if anyone replies maybe they can add thier own or embellish one of these. 1: Never come back A manager should never go back and manage the same team for a second time, he will never have the same degree of success. He will always feel pressure to out do his first stint in charge He is not a long term manager by nature and shouldn't try to be as he is not a team builder He has lost some of his swagger and is not the same manager as he was. 2: Play Juan Mata. He wants Mata to defend, Mata is far too good going forward to be expected to change his game. He doesn't rate Mata. He rates Oscar as his number ten and Mata is not as good on the right or left as our other options. He won't play Mata because the rotund one did. He doesn't like Mata because he is too handsome. (I've heard this, honestly) He wanted to do a deal with UTD but Abramovic wouldn't sanction Mata the other way so he won't play him. 3: know your best eleven Jose doesn't know his best eleven. He has no idea how good some of the players are even with an eye on Chelsea from afar since he left and the preseason. He has issues with some of the young players, why not play Bertrand. De Bruyne played well at Hull and has hardley had a sniff since. 4: The defence needs sorting. Ivan at RB? Cahill preferred to Luiz. Terry should play less. Cole not good enough anymore. 5: Too many favourites Untouchables like Oscar Terry, Lampard and Cole...I think we can leave Cole out of this one now. 6: Tactics Slow build up play and too reliant on the out ball to Ivanovic Asking skilled players to defend from the front and track back too much is blunting our attack. Too much sideways passing and not enough penetration. Players unsuited to the double pivot playing unsuited players to a system instead of playing a system to suit the players. Jose is at odds with himself between the Football hes agreed with Roman that he will have us play and the style he knows best. 7: Strikers He let Lukaku out on loan. He let Moses out on loan. Shouldn't have brought in Eto'o. Shouldn't be alienating Ba. Should have got rid of Torres. Should have got rid of Ba. 8: Not right? I think sitting where we are and still in all competitions is pretty decent with November almost out the way, ok the Football has been a bit hit and miss but I'd expect nothing less with the agenda Jose's been given...I don't agree with everything but I'm confident he'll work it out. If anyone looks through these reasons or has some they want to add, it would be good if you could give an opinion as to why Jose would be doing whatever it is that you feel is the problem, i.e why would he prefer Ivan to Azpi? Obviously I'm confused about some of the decisions but I'm with number eight.

It would be a mistake to make too many changes purely because we need toget some consistency going but if I could pick the team I'd try something like: -----------------cech---------------- Azpi------Cahill----Terry--Cole ------Ramires----De Bryune----- Shuurle-----oscar--------Hazard --------------Torres---------------- Subs Shwarzer Luiz Mikel Lampard Willian Mata Ba Any signs of tiredness in training or the game itself would leave obvious changes Mata/Oscar Willian/Hazard Luiz/Cahill, the first two being likely changes bar injury after the sixty minute mark. I'd love to have the chance to watch some training sessions and have a real opinion on why certain things are not tried, why players are not selected or played in different positions but without that chance its hard to argue against the managers choices as he sees all of it and he knows exactly what he wants from them.

I'm losing patience with Mata...for not being so outstanding in training that Jose has no choice.

Cech was his usual reliable self but although I hate giving a vote to a player that only has a short time on the pitch I have to go for Hazard, he looked like he listened to instructions before he came on and stuck to them, running at defenders and drawing players towards him that should have opened things up if anyone else was on his wavelength.

I can't find many positives out of tonights "performance" apart from maybe the two minute glimpse of De Bruyne but I'll try and think of it as a learning curve that has cost us less tonight than it would if it happens sunday...hopefully the lack of effort tonight will be another wake up call. I can't go along with people who believe every game we lose or draw that Mata would have been the difference but tonight I feel he should have got the start with Oscar after the work he put in Saturday evening, having a well deserved rest, I didn't see the boys after the weekend game so the manager has to be the better judge but with players like Shuurle who tracks back and gets down the wing well kicking their heels, I'd have thought with the decent CL performance he gave last time out, he should have been nailed on. All that aside and tonight s performances came as a surprise to me...Ramires was clumsy and erattic, Oscar really looked tired, Ivan was out of position more than usual, Lampard looked slow and Cahills distribution was worse than usual. All in all though I think the fact that a draw was enough, even a loss and a win next time led the boys into lazy mode, they play better with backs to the wall and as we've seen can be caught out by teams when they are expecting to win. I expect the people slagging Mourinho off as if hes some sort of mug have done that wih most of the managers before him and surely should realise that until we have one in place long enough to have got the team playing the way he feels is right and long enough for the players to feel that their mistakes will not cost the manager his job but more likely cost them theirs then nothing will change and us and the revolving door will keep on going round in circles. I think two or three managers have been good enough to take us forward and I'm sure Jose is one of them, I'm not a worshipper and can see faults but I wouldn't want to try and find a better manager or a better fit for Chelsea. I'll have faith in the boys against Southampton, lets hope everyones up for it.

I didn't know you spoke Portugese...

Hopefully we've ridden a bit of a storm, credit to Basel, they done the business at the Bridge and have really got themselves up for this...as they should do as a loss for them means Europa again. A bit lethargic but Jose will wake them up and won't be slow to change things if his words aren't enough. Second half and hopefully a different story.

Heres my bets for tonights game, I'm gonna go for what I predicted in my BPL as changing it in the last game when I saw the team was a mistake...three players different to my prediction tonight. Any winnings half gos to the forum as usual. Chelsea 3-1 @ 14/1 £5 Estimated Returns : £75.00 and Frank Lampard / Chelsea 3-1 @ 95/1 £2 Estimated Returns : £192.00 Come on lads

I've not held a grudge, I've seen a lot of your posts without adding anything until I saw the antagonistic approach you upheld in this thread and it reminded me of the same basically unnecessary argument we had back then. If you're taking the moral high ground and giving me the last word then thats big of you but very unlikely.

I really couldn't give a toss what it was over but it started over our opinions differing on the Torres face scratch in the Tottenham game, I thought he could have got sent off and you thought he couldn't basically. It then went into some sort of debate where with no real positive answer either way it was all about opinions and needed as this one does, dropping. Then and now your retorts were overly tetchy and the reason it sticks in my memeory. Dude.

I have got issues but they really don't involve conversations with people on a forum that you wouldn't talk to in a pub. perhaps you're memory isn't great as it was only a few weeks ago and what sticks in my mind was that I couldn't work out the real reason for the argument...I put it down to you just being the sort that gets on the net to argue with people, so far I'd say I was pretty much spot on. Calling people drama queens and keep rehashing posts really isn't necessary but if it makes you feel good then I suppose thats up to you, I just thought I 'd stick my oar in and try to get you to be a bit more respectful in your debates.