talkofthetownsend

well, i would point out that "stopping these arguments" is a request that could be directed at many on this thread...most notably the guy who came with literally no other motive than to have an argument and have the last word in that argument, even though the argument had nothing to do with football in any way whatsoever (i really have no idea what that guy's problem with me is tbh as this is not the first time he has done this). 
 
you can say what you want about me, but i have no personal animosity toward anyone here, or anyone on the internet. if people wish to dredge up every old argument or ill feeling they have ever had every time i post; taking personal shots rather than discussing the topic at hand; that speaks volumes about the type of person they are. 
 
as for why you would bump this thread just to reignite said argument...well...if that is what you call "respectful" then ok. i doubt many would thank you but i look forward to getting blamed for replying to you and the subsequent abuse that will surely follow. 
 
 
"arguments and counter arguments" are fine. forums should be about back and forth, debating and so on. 
 
i would define would i have been doing as putting forward arguments in the whole, expressing my opinions and some of the rationale behind them; however, although i don't go away out my way to make personal comments (in fact, i joined this forum to debate football not to get caught up in petty off-topic squabbles), i don't see why i should be particularly pleasant in tone when the "counter-arguments" have been of this type:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
my replies have actually been far less unpleasant than any of that, in fact, i have generally tried to steer the conversation back to football and the discussion at hand.
 
when even the guy who came here with literally no other motivation than to slag me off admits that my initial opinion was reasonable, those responses seem disproportionate and likely stem from prior bad feeling rather than anything i have said here. i do not follow members around just to make personal comments of this type...perhaps the members who have done so to me are the ones who should take "chill pills" and need to "look at themselves".  

No, the populist opinions of media pundits are hardly going to change the hard evidence that Mikel is a good but very limited player.

Ill add you on ignore and we'll not have to discuss it any further. <br /><br />Please no one quote him again

so who does jose think we need mikel to beat? 
 
he's started him only 10 times in the 28 games we have had this season (2 of those are league cup ties where we put out reserve teams) and he has lasted the full 90 only 7 times. that's 5 times he has played the full 90 in meaningful games: basel, west ham, schalke, fulham and everton. the rest of his starts are steaua, stoke and spurs as well as the two league cup games. it is clear that jose is not keeping him in reserve, ready to face the fearsome opposition that some claim he excels against. he's just not picking him. he's a back-up player in our weakest area. 
 
if he perfectly executed the manager's gameplan every time he stepped out in the pitch, maybe the manager would pick him more regularly? especially as our other midfielders haven't exactly set the world alight (although it seems that is more than enough to stay in front of mikel in the pecking order) and the other options are not exactly numerous in number either. 

jose: ok obi, now remember, if we are 1-0 up in the 87th minute and we need to defend that lead, what i want you to do is completely ignore the midfielder just a yard away from you and man-mark the referee instead...got it? 
 
mikel: but boss...
 
jose: no buts obi...just do it. 

Personally, I've never been a huge admirer of Mikel, like a lot on here.
 
We are limited in our midfield options, severely limited, and even then, Mikel is used sparingly.
 
I think Jose is fully aware of his weaknesses and will be looking to bolster this area in the window.
 
Mikel is certainly not a bad player but he doesn't do enough, neither with the ball or without the ball.
 
Essien apart, the three Jose used in midfield on Saturday are his only midfielders.
 
He obviously felt he needed the extra body in that part of the pitch and he obviously felt having somebody sitting would allow Ramires and Lampard to play their natural game.
 
However I believe Jose would like somebody better in that DM position and I believe he will make getting that player his priority.

He hasn't even slagged off Mikel, even brought up some decent points at times. Don't see the problem myself apart from it being discussed in the wrong thread. 

ditto. 
 
but at least i'm right. 

Wow, that comment i made really stirred something up.
 
To clarify i wasnt particulary having a pop at Mikel. I guess you could say the same thing about Moses too, also nominated.
 
The part above ive highlighted says it really and I dont see how people can debate it. I mean he's started 14 games this year. In all competitions.
 
And he has been nominated as best player from his continent this year. That was my point really, and its pretty damning if you ask me.

wow. he did all that in 2013?
 
no. he didn't. nice you give him credit for the el win though. without his sterling job marking the bench for the whole game, who knows what might have happened? 
 
maybe it's "damning" because he's an african player at a top club who has started a grand total of 14 games in all competitions so far this calendar year. 
 
if that's the best african player then god help the continent. 
 
(kalou is only one trophy off that haul btw...the el...and if he were voted the best player in africa, that would be pretty damning too). 

wow. he did all that in 2013?
 
no. he didn't. nice you give him credit for the el win though. without his sterling job marking the bench for the whole game, who knows what might have happened? 
 
maybe it's "damning" because he's an african player at a top club who has started a grand total of 14 games in all competitions so far this calendar year. 
 
if that's the best african player then god help the continent. 
 
(kalou is only one trophy off that haul btw...the el...and if he were voted the best player in africa, that would be pretty damning too). 

Don't really agree with any of that but I've highlighted that one sentence in particular because I think it raises a decent issue.Mikel has to play at the moment because as you say he is our only defensive midfielder. This however does not mean he excels in the role. The passing stats you quote don't mean a thing and I'm staggered people still come out with them! And as for controlling the midfield? I've never seen him control a midfield once. Not even close. Oh, and as for 'ariel dominance '? That ones a joke right?!
When he plays we are a bit more solid granted but when be plays our play is just so slow. He takes an age to get the ball moving and is the prime example of why it takes forever to get the ball forward to our attackers. Against a team who defends deep it just becomes so frustrating as we get nowhere.
We need someone in he role who can play it quickly. Looks around, gets ball and passes. Mikel does the opposite - looks up after getting the ball. He is in the team by default and we really need an upgrade and have done for about half a decade now.
I'm boring everyone to death about this at the moment but it's all about our midfield right now. It's just so flawed and not one combination of what weve got is the answer. The best duo is Mikel and Ramires but that certainly doesn't mean Mikel is excelling and a key part of our future. I think he's had his many chances and the club can do better and I think Jose may just feel the same too.
I expect our midfield to be very different this time next year. Perhaps even by Feb as this nonsense can't go on any more.

1. he definitely is. 
 
2. if willian plays 20 or so league games (like moses) then i would bet on him at least matching the 1 league goal moses scored last year. 

1. he definitely is. 
 
2. if willian plays 20 or so league games (like moses) then i would bet on him at least matching the 1 league goal moses scored last year.