bhundley

Not necessarily. It's a cross between a 4-4-2 and a 4-2-3-1. Only difference is more advanced wingers when in possession when compared to the 4-4-2. Compared to the 4-2-3-1 your number 10 just becomes the striker. Quite often in a 4-2-2-2 one of the strikers drops slightly deeper to play as the number 10 but with 2 strikers it can be deadly. Also when you say we have players who can't cross, I very much disagree. Did you see Hazard cross versus Leeds after Mata laid it back to him, a beautiful out swinger right across the face of goal, but of course Torres was nowhere near the right place to attack the cross, lovely cross all the same, it's the one we actually won a corner off. 
 
We don't have much width anyways, but to say we wouldn't have any at all with a 4-2-2-2 is a little crazy, since all your doing is sacrificing a central player for a striker. It could well open up alot of space centrally, since you have 2 forwards pulling the cb's around the place, and we have some very good wingers in Mata, Moses and Hazard who could be deadly if used as inverted wingers cutting in feeding through balls. Thats said, you need to top strikers and with the array of wingers we have, I'd much rather with out current setup stay as we are, with a better focal point than Torres.

I don't think it's about getting back to his "Liverpool form", we're long past that. At this point Torres is desperately trying to prove to everyone, including himself, that he is not finished as a top class footballer, despite all the signs to the contrary.

Torres is BACK!! Hahahaha

If Torres scores tonight...... I'm going to declare 'He's BACK!'
Hahaha

You're dead right. I can't remember the last time anyone on this forum so much as hinted that "Torres is back." Excuse me if I blinked and missed it. However, what does happen, every time Torres does hit the back of the net, is that the media bring out the same old: "Torres is back"... "is Torres getting back to his best?" type headlines.
 
Looking at it like that, you can't help but think there's more than a bit of confusion between what certain people have read on this forum and what's written in the press.

That is exactly what he means Omnidroid, NO ONE IS SAYING IT. I haven't seen a single Torres supporter say the words "he is back" on this thread since atleast page like 80 something? Where are all these "imaginary" he is back posts coming from??
 
Apparently, thanks to the largely aggresive anti-Torres movement, the phrase "he played decent tonight" now means "HE IS BACK"

That is exactly what he means Omnidroid, NO ONE IS SAYING IT. I haven't seen a single Torres supporter say the words "he is back" on this thread since atleast page like 80 something? Where are all these "imaginary" he is back posts coming from??
 
Apparently, thanks to the largely aggresive anti-Torres movement, the phrase "he played decent tonight" now means "HE IS BACK"

If I hear this once more....

In all honesty, I think there's been far more complaining about Torres apologists than there have actually been posts by Torres apologists, especially of late. The arrival of the interim manager appears to have increased the level of anti-Torres feeling to the extent where a statement regarded as not adequately anti-Torres is deemed as apologistic. This is tied up with what I was saying earlier in this thread about a lack of perspective regarding Torres.
 
I'm not condemning anyone here. With everything that's gone on lately, with feelings running so high, it's perfectly understandable that people would connect Torres to the presence of the interim manager, and equally understandable that they'd be keen to see the back of the pair of them.

Where are all these Torres apologists that exist in your and others minds, their maybe 1 or 2 people who are in love with Torres regardless, but it feels to a few of us that people hate for him has gone over the top!
 
Lets get this straight for the benefit of everyone who reads this thread!
 
Torres is not a girl who puts no effort in, neither does he whinge at every given chance if things don't go his way!
 
He was bought by an owner for a hugely inflated price and asked to play in a style that has never been his, he has tried, and Failed, to adapt to that style, but how is that his fault? It just means that he should never have been bought in the first place!
 
I think even those that support the fact that he has tried have all conceded that it would be better for both parties if we now parted company, that does not mean we have to resort to petty name calling and abusing him as a person.
 
To go back to your post, I would eat my hat if we signed Falcao in January, so I doubt that Torres is overly worried about that, and as an intelligent person and player I'm sure he realises that we need other striking options anyway, so that he can rest in some games.

I said give credit when credit is due.
Credit would be due when he has played well, the same for any other player, it is not rocket science.
 
An analogy with your job is rather stupid as you are not a proffesional footballer so we are comparing apples with pears but if you insist on nit-picking then I will play along:
 
Yes, you would be given credit for doing your job if, for example, a group of people were reviewing your capability after you were assigned a task and subsequently completed it well.
 
In this case, overall, Torres has not done his job well as most (myself included) would happily admit, my point was that I will give credit when credit is due, i.e. on the rare occasions he plays well, you on the other hand will not.
 
I can't believe I actually had to just explain that in minute detail for you.

Both.

Some of these posters need to see if they can dig out a few videos from back in the day when we had some genuinely crap players, I know Torres hasn't lived up to expectations, but he's no Jokanovic, now that guy was really sh*t, but I never willingly hoped he failed when he was playing, I just really hoped he wasn't in the side!

Sorry mate, I just cant see any scenario where I would ever want a player fail for us, never. No matter how much I disliked them or wanted them to leave the club, any time they are on the pitch I want them to play well.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Hazard_a_guess?" data-cid="572193" data-time="1355443053"><p>
I don't want Torres to succeed, I want him out as soon as possible but if we are stuck with him I hope he can at least bag himself and the team a few goals.</p></blockquote>
Thats just mental, how can anyone want any Chelsea player to fail. I have had players I disliked in the past but I always wanted them to do the job on the pitch for us.

priceless

As welcome as that would be, it isn't as simple as that for me. After all, he took the goal coolly against Barca in the Nou Camp. But then just moments before he had surrendered possesion way too easily and they had nearly scored. You had the two sides of Torres in the space of 120 seconds right there.
 
I really want to see two things;
 
1. Consistency - This really is the big one. Consistency is the key for any player who wants to be termed World Class. Not a fleeting run of 2 or 3 games, which we have all seen from him before, (and IMO are probably seeing now), where he plays half decently and notches a couple, generally against weaker opposition. I want to see a sustained run of form. 6,7,8 games against good and bad sides where he comes off the pitch everytime and is genuinely deserving of praise for his performance. He doesn't necessarily have to score, but he does have to be instrumental in every game. In his prime, this was Frank Lampard's major asset.
 
2. What I call the Drogba performance - This means Torres has to come off the pitch at the end of the 90 minutes and absolutely, positively, 100%, without fear of contradiction, must have been the....... MAIN MAN. He must have inspired those around him and single-handedly almost, been the difference between us winning and perhaps drawing or losing the game. This one, unfortunately, has to come against good opposition and, preferrably, in a big pressure game. Think Drogba against Napoli last season.
 
 
When, no, if, he does those two things I would be more than happy to join the 10to10, Redhatter, Ballack&Blu, Timetowaste "Torres is Brilliant Gang". I would even buy the bedroom poster.
 
 
 
I have been waiting for two years now perhaps that is why I am a tad impatient.

I think the question we have to ask ourselves is that if it was Chelsea instead of Man U last weekend during the derby, would Torres have scored a winner like RVP ended up doing against city. Obviously Torres is no FK specialist but its the question, can Torres put away a winner against a team we are competing against for the top spot in the table? He has yet to show that and I'll agree with you on that premise.

I'm not saying we should only base his performances against the better sides but it is something we need to see, if ignored all the games against what I'd count as top class opposition then Torres would have a decent record.
 
Until he does it as a matchwinner in important games against the best squads and on a reasonably regular basis, the doubts will be there.
 
And the credit where its due bit...I've given him my mom vote in two or three games and would gladly give it any time he looked like he deserved it, his goals of late are a good sign but nothing that makes me sit up and think hes what we need.

Couldnt care less if Torres scored with his bum after 10 deflections, just happy for the lad that the goals are coming frequently.

Since joining Chelsea in 2011, Fernando Torres has been in outstanding goal scoring form. 

In his 2 years, he's averaged 5.5 league goals per calendar year and an almost unbeatable 2.75 league goals per manager. That makes his £50 million price tag look like a snip with the cost of each goal costing a bargain basement £4.5 million.

With Torres setting a personal best of 6 league goals last season, level with team mate John Terry, and goal scoring machine Thomas Vermaelen, he's looking to double that this season.

Since August, Torres has averaged 1 league goal per month, which puts him level with trivia buster Wayne Routledge, £350,000 Reading striker Adam Le Fondre, Fulham's 4th choice forward Mladen Petric and he's only 2 goals short of Championship legend Rickie Lambert's tally. With the season lasting a further 6 months, and if he can maintain his current form, it would be foolish to suggest Torres couldn't reach double figures this season.

33/1 Torres to be top scorer with Paddy Power.

easy to perform well against that opposition
 
week in and week out in prem and in previous CL games is and was needed
 
he has a long way to go to redeem himself, still whiles hes the # 9 I will support him unlike the FSW

I know what you mean. It's the same with me and Tiger Woods. He gets a hole-in-one, and everyone says, "Great player". I get a hole-in-one and everyone calls it a fluke. Ridiculous.

Damned if he does, damned if he don't.
Best to just part ways, the fans here have already decided it's too late no matter how many he scores.
Arse, shin, shoulder, knee, foot, head they all count.

loved this comment