Michael Keane isn't bad, I thought he looked a bit raw last season for Burnley but by all accounts has filled Jason Shackell's boots admirably in the Championship. It only just occurred to me that him and Will Keane might be brothers though...

 

If one player ends up like Mikel, a first team regular for a decade, we'll have done well. I just think expectations of our youth are unrealistic. Realistically most of them will never be good enough for the first team. Talk of half them making it seems wildly optimistic to me, as there's just an enormous gap between youth level and senior Premier League level. A handful might at best. By way of comparison, here is Man U's FA Youth Cup winning squad from 2011:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Youth_Cup_Finals#2010.E2.80.9311:_Manchester_United_vs_Sheffield_United_.282-2_and_4-1.2C_6-3_aggregate.29

 

By my count, just one of those 18 players is in United's current squad. Only two others are still on United's books, and both have been farmed out on loan. Pogba aside (who wasn't really a United product), most of the others are playing in the lower leagues and some aren't playing at all.

 

I do take your point but the team I'm referring to was pretty much a combination of two youth cup teams (2014 and 2015), and both were exceptionally good.

 

Just for comparison if you go back to the 2010 team, it was good but the standouts were probably Josh and Bruma. Tore actually has had a decent career but the current youth teams, and the 2015 one in particular, really are a class above in my opinion.

I don't see how the past is holding the players or the club back. It's a new day, move forward.

 

The past is not holding them back, but it's a pretty good indication of how much the youth is given a chance at this club. We've had trophy winning youth sides for years now, but we've yet to see anyone become even a squad player until RLC. And I mean someone who actually gets to play instead of just being given a squad number and allowed to train with the first team.

 

In reference to OP, they don't have to be Giggs, Scholes, Beckham and the Nevilles. If 2 or 3 of them are regular starters and another 2 or 3 are coming off the bench in 5 years that is a success. Of course 1 getting in the team would be an improvement over the past x number of years but is that success?

 

I didn't say they have to be first team star players, but even 2-3 RLCs would be a huge improvement. Conte's main target will most likely be to get us back into the UCL and I'd be VERY surprised if he introduced 2-3 regular starters from amongst the academy players. We just haven't done long term at this club and it would be a huge change if we suddenly started doing it. The youngsters have been mostly players we sell on for profit instead of really trying to turn them into first team players.

The past is not holding them back, but it's a pretty good indication of how much the youth is given a chance at this club. We've had trophy winning youth sides for years now, but we've yet to see anyone become even a squad player until RLC. And I mean someone who actually gets to play instead of just being given a squad number and allowed to train with the first team.

I didn't say they have to be first team star players, but even 2-3 RLCs would be a huge improvement. Conte's main target will most likely be to get us back into the UCL and I'd be VERY surprised if he introduced 2-3 regular starters from amongst the academy players. We just haven't done long term at this club and it would be a huge change if we suddenly started doing it. The youngsters have been mostly players we sell on for profit instead of really trying to turn them into first team players.

Then why trot out the JT line? Thats the past. Yea sure for 10 years we supposedly havent been giving young players a chance but IMO thats partlt due to none of them being good enough as well as policy. I dont care if we went 10 years without bringing someone through, its the next 10 years that matter now

If one player ends up like Mikel, a first team regular for a decade, we'll have done well. I just think expectations of our youth are unrealistic. Realistically most of them will never be good enough for the first team. Talk of half them making it seems wildly optimistic to me, as there's just an enormous gap between youth level and senior Premier League level. A handful might at best. By way of comparison, here is Man U's FA Youth Cup winning squad from 2011:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Youth_Cup_Finals#2010.E2.80.9311:_Manchester_United_vs_Sheffield_United_.282-2_and_4-1.2C_6-3_aggregate.29

By my count, just one of those 18 players is in United's current squad. Only two others are still on United's books, and both have been farmed out on loan. Pogba aside (who wasn't really a United product), most of the others are playing in the lower leagues and some aren't playing at all.

If you dont think this group realistically can or should produce more than 1 good player then we havent been doing so poorly in promoting young players for a while now seeing as how none of our previous classes have been as talented as this lot.

Maybe you have insight I dont but I cant see why Christensen, RLC and Dasilva for example shouldnt be first teamers come 2020 as well as Colkett and Solanke being bench contributers.

I understand they all wont pan out but the talent level here is much greater than just winning an FA youth cup.

Edited April 27, 201610 yr by TheChelseaBlues

Then why trot out the JT line? Thats the past. Yea sure for 10 years we supposedly havent been giving young players a chance but IMO thats partlt due to none of them being good enough as well as policy. I dont care if we went 10 years without bringing someone through, its the next 10 years that matter now

 

Why trot out the JT line? Because it's a fact! Like I said, we've had title winning youth teams for years now and only RLC has been given a chance to play with the first team. I appreciate your positive attitude, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that we suddenly will start to give the youth A PROPER chance. Jose said he would be a failure if he didn't bring through a few of the academy players. All I'm asking is why suddenly now? Why would Conte be the one to introduce more youngsters into the first team than pretty much all the other Roman era managers so far? I'd love to see it happen, but there's nothing to suggest that this will be the case. Would Conte be allowed to stay if we're not back in the top four at the end of next season, but he introduces academy players into the first team? I seriously doubt that. Will he risk that or will he play safe and buy established players? Remains to be seen, but I know what's the more likely outcome.

Players who I think will make it at Chelsea in a reasonable capacity - Christensen, Musonda, Colkett, DaSilva

 

Players that I dont see making it big (either chelsea or otherwise)  - Loftus-Cheek, Collins, Clarke-Salter

 

Cant say - Ola Aina, Boga, Solanke, Brown

That's interesting as RLC and JCS both seem to have been taken into the first team squad by hiddink, and RLC under Mourinho too.

If they're getting first team minutes now I would imagine they must have enough about them to potentially become first team players. 

Constant revolving door of managers isnt going to help though as it means the new guy will almost always rely on senior pro's until they have seen a lot of the youngsters in training. I think that is one of our key issues in developing youth. How many managers come in to a new club and put their faith in academy players from game 1? It's like a re-set everytime, and the experienced pro's with high wages, experience and a cv of success will always be given the first opportunity to impress as a manager settles in and looks to hit the ground running

Why trot out the JT line? Because it's a fact! Like I said, we've had title winning youth teams for years now and only RLC has been given a chance to play with the first team. I appreciate your positive attitude, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that we suddenly will start to give the youth A PROPER chance. Jose said he would be a failure if he didn't bring through a few of the academy players. All I'm asking is why suddenly now? Why would Conte be the one to introduce more youngsters into the first team than pretty much all the other Roman era managers so far? I'd love to see it happen, but there's nothing to suggest that this will be the case. Would Conte be allowed to stay if we're not back in the top four at the end of next season, but he introduces academy players into the first team? I seriously doubt that. Will he risk that or will he play safe and buy established players? Remains to be seen, but I know what's the more likely outcome.

We're moving forward with Conte. If the scenario plays out like you said I think he will be given more time. Not only because he's probably been given the mandate to play young players but also because who the f**k else is left to replace him from a practical POV? I think Jose would have been given more time if he had been playing them as well. If Conte is trotting out the same squad every week and we're 10th then yea he may not last. But if he's blooding young players and we're there I dont know who Roman will think could do better.

Im only harping on this because at some point we're going to either be made or broken by how we play/treat our young players. If we cant bring through a handful of players from an academy thats won back to back FA Cups and European finals we're truly f**ked from the top down

Edited April 28, 201610 yr by TheChelseaBlues

The past is not holding them back, but it's a pretty good indication of how much the youth is given a chance at this club. We've had trophy winning youth sides for years now, but we've yet to see anyone become even a squad player until RLC. And I mean someone who actually gets to play instead of just being given a squad number and allowed to train with the first team.

Bertrand was given two full seasons as a squad player and racked up 50+ appearances, I get this doesn't follow the media party line but he was given plenty of opportunities and definitely was a squad player.

WE then gave him a chance to further his career by allowing him to leave and become more than just a squad player as it was apparent he wasn't going to reach the level of a Chelsea starter, and since doing this Bertrand has managed to represent England, which I imagine has made both parties very happy. 

Yes we do need to bring through youth far more pro actively but can we please avoid using the overly exaggerated media vitriol which clearly isn't true.  

Bertrand was given two full seasons as a squad player and racked up 50+ appearances, I get this doesn't follow the media party line but he was given plenty of opportunities and definitely was a squad player.

WE then gave him a chance to further his career by allowing him to leave and become more than just a squad player as it was apparent he wasn't going to reach the level of a Chelsea starter, and since doing this Bertrand has managed to represent England, which I imagine has made both parties very happy. 

Yes we do need to bring through youth far more pro actively but can we please avoid using the overly exaggerated media vitriol which clearly isn't true.  

 

Bertrand is a weird one, not least because established squad players generally don't get loaned out. Bertrand was loaned out twice after coming back to the Bridge at the age of 23 (?).

 

The media aren't really establishing this line either because it's the truth. Your argument seems to be that it's inaccurate to say no youth team player has established himself in the first team because Ryan Bertrand got 14 starts under Robbie Di Matteo and Rafa Benitez, but isn't that as damning of our progress?

Bertrand was given two full seasons as a squad player and racked up 50+ appearances, I get this doesn't follow the media party line but he was given plenty of opportunities and definitely was a squad player.

WE then gave him a chance to further his career by allowing him to leave and become more than just a squad player as it was apparent he wasn't going to reach the level of a Chelsea starter, and since doing this Bertrand has managed to represent England, which I imagine has made both parties very happy.

Yes we do need to bring through youth far more pro actively but can we please avoid using the overly exaggerated media vitriol which clearly isn't true.

THANK YOU. I've been saying that as well. Bertrand was given plenty of opportunity