Alarm Bells are ringing... Will JM play with 2 centermids?

[Pauly]

Correct me if i am wrong, but did i read that JM said there will be one partner for essien in the center of midfield next season, a few days ago?

I really hope i was accidentally reading the sun there or something similar!!

pauly

[Pauly]

I... can't actually vote in that...!

8 central midfielders in the squad is a few too many if you plan to start with 2, the 4-4-2 diamond we don't have the focus or passing quality to use effectively, and the 4-5-1 is a deathtrap if it's played as it was last year (with little pushing up the field and a flat block in the central midfield)... so.. i vote.. something else!

[mad_mac]

So, are we voting on what we think Jose will play, or what we want to play? I thin it will be a combination of the 3 depending on opposition, and the time/standing in the game

[just]

Pauly, I think JM will be playing the old "Sophia Loren" formation this season.

Ample at the back to provide a firm base. Not a lot in the middle ,(coz no-one's really looking at that), and so much up front there is a risk of toppling over.

We may not win anything, but at least we'll enjoy watching it.

[TomP]

I think that given the squad setup (ie. a million central midfielders, back to a full complement of wingers and only 3 strikers) the most likely option is the 4-3-3.

However, what I would most like to see is the squad having the ability and depth to be able to swich between all three of these formations depending on what is needed for a particular match, and even for a particular match situation.

I think that the 4-3-3 and the diamond 4-4-2 work really well against bigger sides - it allows us to control the midfield, and thus, control the game. But we lost the Premiership last season because we couldn't put away the small sides who were content to flood the centre of midfield to create a stalemate.

The way to beat these sides is to stretch them wide - which a flat 4-4-2 does really well. And if the likes of Essien and Lampard can't form an effective 2-man central midfield combination, then I don't know who can.

[Butch]

Pauly, I think JM will be playing the old "Sophia Loren" formation this season.

Ample at the back to provide a firm base. Not a lot in the middle ,(coz no-one's really looking at that), and so much up front there is a risk of toppling over.

We may not win anything, but at least we'll enjoy watching it.

You're showing your age, Just!

Cheers,

Butch

[callista]

Pauly, I think JM will be playing the old "Sophia Loren" formation this season.

Ample at the back to provide a firm base. Not a lot in the middle ,(coz no-one's really looking at that), and so much up front there is a risk of toppling over.

We may not win anything, but at least we'll enjoy watching it.

You're showing your age, Just!

Cheers,

Butch

Yes that Sophia Loren analogy whilst excellent was a dead giveaway.

I think Jose will swap between formations depending upon the opposition and injury situation at any given time - simple as that.

[Guest Brian M]

Yes that Sophia Loren analogy whilst excellent was a dead giveaway.

Might I offer an alternative, Callista...

[dkw]

i think jose gave a clue towards the end of the match last week what he may try. he played with 2 holding midfielders, and the rest switching all over the place. personally id live to see this tried. maybe have maka and mikel in the holding with malouda/robben, lamps, essien and joey cole playing behind drogba.

[Sofa Manager]

Well...seems I'm the only one to vote for the 442 diamond.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with this formation, apart from the obvious lack of widht wich is it's achilles tendon (but other formations have it's holes too, as the mentioned lack of "control" of the midfield in a classic 433).

The 433 is a system designed to play in counter attack or "quick transitions" (as a proper armchair manager would say). It's very efficient and gets results, but it's not what I would rather see. It's actually quite amusing to think that during JM's first 2 seasons a lot of people were fed up with this counter attcking system and would enjoy playing 2 strikers and/or having more initiative.

A 442 or a 451 is designed to take control of the match, especially the midfield. Again, I don't think there's anything wrong with A 442 D.

There was - YES - something wrong with OUR 442D. First of all, it was more of a 4132 system, instead of a 442. That is...one "Maka" in front of the back 4 and 3 flat players in front of him. Usually Lampard, Essien and Ballack or Mikel. In reality, there was never a real creative playmaker or even forward behind the front 2, and here lies the first problem. We don't have one. We have a couple resembled, but we don't have a Deco, etc etc etc...or even a Ronladinho or a Kaka. This has been discussed ad infinitum and there's no point on beating a dead horse. However, we do have (and didn't last season) Joe Cole, Mikel or even Kalou. That's it. While I'm not a personal fan of Joe Cole, I do think he can be very good there. The combination used, with Ballack playing that creative role...was, obviously not creative at all.

Secondly...on a narrow system such as this, we have to have offensive full backs. On the left, thumbs up, on the right...thumbs down. The constant switches with Geremi (good at going forward and crossing, not good at all defending), Paulo Ferreira (good at defending, not good at crossing or going forward) and Diarra (plenty of stamina, etc, but not actually a right back) was there to serve as an evidence. We lacked a proper offensive right back.

So, I would like to see the 442 diamond. We have at least 8 (?) central midfielders. Use Maka+Lampard+Essien+Joe Cole...or another combination including Mikel, Ballack and Diarra/Sidwell (and even Kalou on the front). Get a proper offensive right back (BRING ALVES or Miguel) and voila. Add to this the fact that we have 4 strikers if we consider Kalou as one. 2 "target man" (Drogba and Pizarro) and 2 mobile ones (Sheva and Kalou). Perfect.

The reality is, we're obviously gonna swap among systems. And thats ok. There must be a "base" system though. (?)

Here comes a new one...442 flat ? FFS !

[Guest]

i think jose gave a clue towards the end of the match last week what he may try. he played with 2 holding midfielders, and the rest switching all over the place. personally id live to see this tried. maybe have maka and mikel in the holding with malouda/robben, lamps, essien and joey cole playing behind drogba.

Sounds like a 4-2-3-1 formation. That would certainly work for me though I think a club like Barcelona (and even Man Utd) have more firepower to make those kind of tactics work for them offensively.

[Pauly]

Well...seems I'm the only one to vote for the 442 diamond.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with this formation, apart from the obvious lack of widht wich is it's achilles tendon (but other formations have it's holes too, as the mentioned lack of "control" of the midfield in a classic 433).

The 433 is a system designed to play in counter attack or "quick transitions" (as a proper armchair manager would say). It's very efficient and gets results, but it's not what I would rather see. It's actually quite amusing to think that during JM's first 2 seasons a lot of people were fed up with this counter attcking system and would enjoy playing 2 strikers and/or having more initiative.

nando, as usual i disagree- some obvious points nullifying your hard work:

1) Any formation that plays 3 in the midfield, with one man sweeping the midfield ie. Maka, HAS to make use of that fact by pushing those two central midfielders forward. They have to be more reckless in attacking crosses (like gerrard who is protected), making forward runs behind the striker (like Perrotta in the world cup for us), and helping out going forward in general. That's the area where you dominate the game if you play 3v2 in the midfield and you can't waste it by not pushing. With players/a team of the quality of Chelsea you will dominate most games anyway, but playing with a sh*tty Fernando de portugal system will catch up with you inevitably when someone named fabio marcello or guus f**ks you in the arse! The way we play it or are likely to play it with Essien/Lampard is a waste and ill-fated and flawed. Maybe you can win with percentages because it will keep you in every game, but more likely than not the football god's say you will be going out quarter/semi finals of the champions league and will drop points to aston villa.

2) 4-4-2 diamond: We don't have the players or obviously the focus in training to pass effectively in that formation. Perhaps one player naturally- Mikel.

3) What is common to both these formations is that they aim to stop football and not to control games/create chances.

The 4-3-3 is a perfect example of this: Throughout my football life i've been taught to always use every player on the pitch: leaving 4 at the back against 2 strikers is a waste; one fullback pushes forward, one into the center and you play 2 man markers and one free man. Just as you would never defend with 3 against 1 striker. The entire success of the Portuguese 4-3-3 is based on forcing the opposition to be imbalanced and outnumbered: the AML & AMR keep the opposition fullbacks from pushing into the midfield, and the CF keeps the two CB's back as they can't defend one V one. Having to keep 4 V 3 at the back the opposition is unavoidably outnumbered: they can either drop a striker into the midfield and mark makelele for example, and then both 4-3-3 fullbacks can push into the midfield and still leave Terry & Carvalho to mark Marlon Harewood, or they can play two up front, force the opposition to keep defenders back but be 2:3 outnumbered in central midfield. It is a football killer formation that forces its opponent to copy it: it's like a virus multiplying throughout football that nobody is really in control of anymore- not even jesus.

4) "So what," you say, "all you've done is show it's logical." You're right nando, i am smart.

I'm not saying it's a bad formation- i'm saying that unless it uses its main strength- and that is having a protecting back up for the midfield makelele, by pressing, and recklessly running forward from the midfield two, then it is a formation of 1-0 lovers and jackasses. Which are the same thing because unless we resign Gallas and JM is forced by sorcery to give crowns to Ferreira, Bridge and resign Gallas- that is a recipe for disaster.

The best we have been under JM is when we used that 4-3-3 as an attacking, pressing system- I ask you this, what is more logical:

[Pauly]

Pauly, I think JM will be playing the old "Sophia Loren" formation this season.

Ample at the back to provide a firm base. Not a lot in the middle ,(coz no-one's really looking at that), and so much up front there is a risk of toppling over.

We may not win anything, but at least we'll enjoy watching it.

haha yes... the old sophia loren- somebody horribly unsuited to it trying to look good and with more than a slight amount of craziness! sounds viable!

[ozboy]

pauly

Great post.

[MadMickC.F.C.]

Yes that Sophia Loren analogy whilst excellent was a dead giveaway.

Might I offer an alternative, Callista...

I hope this one likes to play snooker.

Where I would love to kiss the pink.

And with a deep screw on the brown.

[Liam]

Taking my cue from you Mick I would add that I would like to fire a few cannons in her direction while she gently manipulated the balls in the pockets.