Anyone feel the same way as I do?

[Gem]

From reading these boards, there are two types of Chelsea fans when it comes to transfers.

1. Buy him, at any cost, we need world class

2. Don't buy them, we've got so and so and such and such in the reserves.

Now, out of the two I am in the number 1 camp. However, I would be more than happy to stick with the squad we got AS LONG AS Di Santo, Sinclair, Stock and Mancienne actually got a decent amount of games.

I don't see the point in playing Kalou/Belletti instead of Stoch, or Kalou upfront instead of Di Santo. I either want great players or development to the youth teams, not average, past it players put into the team. I know competition is good, but apart from one or two games under Scolari, hardly any of them have hard a chance dispite CC/early FA cup matches.

In closing, apart from maybe a play maker, I'd be okay with no Summer signings as long as we weren't left with f**kin' has beens and actually give our youth a chance. However, if that is never goin to happen, I'd rather spend £1000000000m on fantastic players and scrap the averages. Sod it, it's only money.

[Ruh Buh Juh]

From reading these boards, there are two types of Chelsea fans when it comes to transfers.

1. Buy him, at any cost, we need world class

2. Don't buy them, we've got so and so and such and such in the reserves.

Now, out of the two I am in the number 1 camp. However, I would be more than happy to stick with the squad we got AS LONG AS Di Santo, Sinclair, Stock and Mancienne actually got a decent amount of games.

I don't see the point in playing Kalou/Belletti instead of Stoch, or Kalou upfront instead of Di Santo. I either want great players or development to the youth teams, not average, past it players put into the team. I know competition is good, but apart from one or two games under Scolari, hardly any of them have hard a chance dispite CC/early FA cup matches.

In closing, apart from maybe a play maker, I'd be okay with no Summer signings as long as we weren't left with f**kin' has beens and actually give our youth a chance. However, if that is never goin to happen, I'd rather spend £1000000000m on fantastic players and scrap the averages. Sod it, it's only money.

I concurr. It annoyed me so much last season when Belletti would come on to play on the wing, when Stoch was there.

[Jimboola69]

I desperately want us to develop our own so we do not have to whore ourselves around every year stuffing gold in the mouths of mercenary tosspots to lower themselves to play for us for a measly £100k plus a week.

I also fear we are getting so old that our next sponsor will be Saga Holidays! :)

Don't even start we on how Pato is not worth more than Kaka!!!! :(

[evissy]

I'm from the 1,5 camp. I would love us to give chaces to the likes of DiSanto and Stoch and get rid of 'deadwood' or players who just don't fit the team: Kalou, Paolo, Belletti, Sheva, Pizza...

On the otherhand, to ensure we compete on the highest level, we need to lure world class player(s) to our squad. Names like Aguero and Ribery would keep us up there with the best of them. Team comes first but we need at least one more player who has that 'extra something' like Lampard and Drogba do have.

We need to find the right balance and make the team younger and more hungry.

Maybe I'm more like 1,3 :)

[BelgradeCFC]

I'm from the 1,5 camp. I would love us to give chaces to the likes of DiSanto and Stoch and get rid of 'deadwood' or players who just don't fit the team: Kalou, Paolo, Belletti, Sheva, Pizza...

On the otherhand, to ensure we compete on the highest level, we need to lure world class player(s) to our squad. Names like Aguero and Ribery would keep us up there with the best of them. Team comes first but we need at least one more player who has that 'extra something' like Lampard and Drogba do have.

We need to find the right balance and make the team younger and more hungry.

Maybe I'm more like 1,3 :)

I agree.

[fester]

I'm from the 1,5 camp. I would love us to give chaces to the likes of DiSanto and Stoch and get rid of 'deadwood' or players who just don't fit the team: Kalou, Paolo, Belletti, Sheva, Pizza...

On the otherhand, to ensure we compete on the highest level, we need to lure world class player(s) to our squad. Names like Aguero and Ribery would keep us up there with the best of them. Team comes first but we need at least one more player who has that 'extra something' like Lampard and Drogba do have.

We need to find the right balance and make the team younger and more hungry.

Maybe I'm more like 1,3 :(

I agree too :)

[Maksimov]

I'm also somewhere between the camps. I'd like to see the youngsters get more games, but not just for the sake of it. Ease them in slowly in games where we can afford to do so. I'd like to see some of the older players go, but we do need experience to battle on all fronts. We need creativity up front and that is going to cost us, but I don't think we should pay anything it takes to get the players. If we do that, we're just going to see it harder and harder to negotiate deals for players when the transfer fees rise constantly when clubs say "well, if that player is worth X amount, then our player is worth at least X+n amount" and the agents will demand higher salaries all the time if the clubs are willing to meet the most ludicrous demands. When a new player comes in and suddenly becomes the highest paid player in the team, you can be sure that the established players at the club will want to be paid more. It's not realistic to think that we can bring in all the players from our youth set up, so we need to buy players from time to time to keep us competitive and if we pay whatever it takes, we will find it increasingly harder to find players we can buy on reasonable prices. There is a limit to how much money Chelsea or Roman can realistically afford to pay for a transfer and how much the club can afford to pay the player, so the club needs to keep calm so that we can keep the train on tracks and rolling on smoothly.

[TheWestwayWonder]

Gem, you summed it up well there. I too like to think I fall somewhere between the two

I want to see the youngsters played, like alot of people here. When we were up 4-0 in some games and crusing, it wouldve been no harm to throw on Di Santo or Stoch rather than Deco or Kalou to give them a go. Remember Stoke City home? Young blood and Frank's finishing helped save Scolari's hide for a few more weeks.

imo, these kinds of players are more than fine to have as a third or fourth option in some positions. Its when we dont have "that" player who can be the capable number one option that we need to go shopping.

[mad_mac]

in the 1.5 camp myself. Trim the deadwood, play some youth, but sign in big name players to help us challenge on all fronts

Scott

[TomP]

A couple of points:

1. I don't think we should play youngsters just for the sake of it.

2. The difference between us and United over the past few seasons has been squad depth.

When United went a goal down last season, they threw on Berbatov and Tevez. When we went a goal down, our options were the likes of Stoch, Di Santo and Kalou.

If we want to challenge for 4 trophies, we can't put ourselves in this position.

I think we need to go back to the type of squad we had when we were winning titles under Mourinho. We had the best quality squad in the world by a country mile. We could afford for one of our world class players to injury or poor form, and we had another one in the wings waiting for their chance.

I want us to have the type of squad where Joe Cole is playing his heart out to break into the first team in front of the likes of Robben and Duff.

I think if we start relying on 5 or 6 world class players plus a whole lot of youngsters, we will go down the same path at the Arse. That is - look like a good team when your 5 or 6 stars are all available and on top form, and then get a whole lot of mixed results when they are not.

Don't get me wrong - watching someone like JT come through the ranks from the academy to the best in the world really is something special, but we can't expect this to happen with every youth player we bring through, and we definately can't rely on this happening for us to win trophies.

We might not get another JT for 15 years. Since JT, we've seen a whole lot of youngsters who were just as promising as JT come and go. And, as promising as the likes of Forsell, Carlton Cole, Huth, Glen Johnson, Sahar and Sinclair have been, none of them have developed into players good enough for the Chelsea first team.

In fact, the only player that we have had in the last few years as a youngster that we probably should have hung on to was Diarra. And he was never going to patiently sit and wait for an opportunity.

I don't think we should abandon our youth policy. But I think we need to be realistic about it. We are no longer a club that can afford to slowly develop youth players from the reserves into the first team. The owners (and the fans) demand constant success. Like it or not, our priority as a club is to win trophies in the short term. And to get that constant success, you need a quality squad. You can't rely on youngsters.

I think there's room in a quality squad for one, or maybe two youth prospects per season. But they need to be top quality prospects - Mikel standard. Not Sinclair and Stoch standard.

[Butch]

Totally agree with TomP.

Cheers,

Butch

[Gem]

When United went a goal down last season, they threw on Berbatov and Tevez. When we went a goal down, our options were the likes of Stoch, Di Santo and Kalou.

My point exactly, when did we ever give these boys a chance? Against Stoke? Once? When we go a goal down we'd bring on players like Kalou and Belletti who we know don't offer much. Why not let the youngsters prove they won't offer as much either? You never know, they might surprise us and be useful. Look at Macheda, made more of a bloody impact then their £30m signing when he came on. Maybe, just maybe, Di Santo would offer more than Kalou, but we'll never know unfortunately.

I haven't see any youth games, or footage of the players training, but I take it from the "Not Sinclair and Stoch standard" you must have. Can you elaborate? They haven't played in the first team to be judged on those 7 ½ minutes.

I don't doubt squad depth is one of our main fallings, but when we're 2-0 up at home against someone or another why not let Franco etc come on? Even if it’s just to boost his confidence and show the player he maybe could be. Realistically, not every player we bring through will be ready at 19 and a loan at a club where the pressure is less would probably be the answer, but just give them a chance… Please?

I know we’re a club who are hell bent of success and I think unless we’re willing to keep hold of a manager who wants to do something long term for the club, we’ll never succeed. However, you don’t frickin’ win when your options are Kalou, Belletti, Ferreira and Ballack.

I’ll accept the argument when we’ve given them enough time to show they’re just not ready. Against Stoke, didn’t Di Santo provide the header back across goal to make it 1-1, and Stoch provided the initial cross that lead to Lampard’s winner?

[jordanl5182]

I think I've become a number 2 :D

I don't think our squad is incapable of winning the league. If Ancelotti can master his tactics, which I'm sure he will, we'll definitely give Utd a run for their money this season. Champions League is within our grasp, maybe more so than the Premier League considering who we have at the helm.

If we do manage to sign Aguero or Pato it would be great, but I fear they would be bench warmers for this season at least, it will however ensure that we have a good level of attacking depth.

I think signing Pirlo is becoming more and more attractive and for about £15m I'd have him. Zhirkov seems a done deal.

As for the youngsters we already have, I think had Scolari stayed on, we'd have seen a bit more of them. Hiddink's job was to stabilise and he did that. There was no need for him to even look to our youth, except for the 'who replaces Ashley?' incident.

[Nibs]

I think signing Pirlo is becoming more and more attractive and for about £15m I'd have him. Zhirkov seems a done deal.

£15m for 30 year old? you've gotta be kidding?

A LOT depends on who we get rid of - especially if Drogba goes. I would be happy with one possibly two DECENT signings - as in already recognised quality and not the old "has potential" cliche and these players MUST be the righ side of 30.

Really hoping to see the likes of Stoch & Kakuta get playing time next season. If they make the bench let's for f**k sake PLAY THEM and not bring on a Belletti or Ballack, especially when a game is already in the bag.

[Mike O]

I know I'm a very infrequent visitor to these boards nowadays but here are my two pennies.

I am amazed, nay stunned, at how readily most of you seem to have accepted that Cobham can't easily produce world class players, or premiership class players, or even 'on-loan-to-Blackpool' class players.

Leaving aside JT (who was developed waaaaay before Cobham) what other player have we 'home-grown' in the last 7 years who has been a regular in our squad?

I believe the answer may be 'none'. Forgive me if I'm wrong and maybe next season the likes of Mancienne will turn the tide, but that is one sh*t return on investment.

If a 'world class' team like CFC can't develop one first class player out of the most heavily invested-in academy / scouting team / training facilities in the world (probably), then what's the point of it?

I've no doubt most of you won't give a toss and will be happy to carry on playing championship manager and puttiing every world star in a blue shirt for any price, but where's the fun in that?

My preference would be no more buys, play Di Santo, Stoch et al, and learn to depend on the investment of Cobham. Build something truly Chelsea that no-on else can touch.

This would also help stop us looking like twats every year in the transfer market.

[Gem]

Really hoping to see the likes of Stoch & Kakuta get playing time next season. If they make the bench let's for f**k sake PLAY THEM and not bring on a Belletti or Ballack, especially when a game is already in the bag.

You've summed up what I wanted to say in a couple of sentences, I absolutley agree.

[Dorset]

This is a real thought provoking topic raised at exactly the right time - just before we may be about to spend a fortune on players… then again, maybe not. If we are all totally honest, I think every football fan is in the first category (even Mike) because whatever player is under consideration, home produced or not, it’s his talent that excites and any satisfaction you want to take from a player coming through the ranks and becoming a star is secondary to that guiding principle of wanting to see the best regardless of any other criteria. Also, let’s not get carried away with the belief that buying the best, as opposed to training them up in your own academy, is somehow morally inferior or a sordid abuse of financial muscle - it isn’t and if it was Roman would have been given far more praise for what he has done in the development area whilst going along in tandem with his spending in the transfer market. In media circles he gets little appreciation for the former and dogs abuse for the latter, so you could argue that an academy is no more than a sop to the grassroots brigade and should it pay off at some stage it will be a bonus.

That [rather cynically] said, I admit to enjoying watching the Reserves and youth team games and, until realism returns after ninety minutes, often wish I would soon see a Kakuta or a Stoch in first team action. What makes us lean towards the second category is that we live in hope of finding the world class diamond of a player within the system, but know full well that the chances are slim to none that there will be many, if any at all. Nothing sums up that dilemma better than our goalkeeping situation at present. Prepare to be confused…

Petr Cech - costs the most, plays the most, is the best and will not be replaced by anyone anytime soon, right? So, if you’re not in the 1 camp, what chance have you got of your 2 camp ideas bearing fruit? The contenders, now that Carlo and Hilario are outta here, are as follows:-

Ross Turnbull - young, English, some say he has already signed, this guy doesn’t fit into the home grown model, but has all the other hallmarks of the 2 category, having elbowed out two other neater fits into the understudy role and the first of these is…

Rhys Taylor - in his third year at the club and a 19yr old capped by Wales at under-21 level. Clear cut 2 category material that is now, potentially, third in line for the top spot. Sad to say, I don’t think there is much likelihood of him improving on this position because last on the list, already issued with a jersey number, is…

Jan Sebek - only eighteen and already as tall as Cech he really is 2 rolled into 1 for the future, in other words he’s pretty damn good. Those (like Mike) who want to see us give lads like Jan a chance have already got his name down on a 2010 teamsheet and will quickly forget that he has only been with us five minutes. When he eventually troops out for his debut he’ll be one of ours - a true [category 2] blue and no mistake.

There you go, four players at varying degrees on the thermometer of first and second category players. Which one do you want to see regularly in the first team and why? And just to make your choice a little more difficult, just imagine Petr Cech didn’t play for us, but was available for a massive transfer fee during this close season. Would you buy him…. you bet your life you would!!!

[Stewartd7]

"I'd like to see the youngsters get more games, but not just for the sake of it."

too right we cant just say we need to play more youth players. What if they are not good enough?

Relating to the poster who started this would you like to be like arsenal trophy in (so many years i cant remember)?If we played Di santo Stoch etc as much as you wanted yuo`d be the one coomplaining when we were not winning aswell.

but i do agree on the point that we should ease them in

[Gem]

"I'd like to see the youngsters get more games, but not just for the sake of it."

too right we cant just say we need to play more youth players. What if they are not good enough?

Relating to the poster who started this would you like to be like arsenal trophy in (so many years i cant remember)?If we played Di santo Stoch etc as much as you wanted yuo`d be the one coomplaining when we were not winning aswell.

but i do agree on the point that we should ease them in

My name is Gem, as stated in the opening post. You may call me Gemma.

As you can see, I stated:

"but when we're 2-0 up at home against someone or another why not let Franco etc come on?"

Never anything about playing them as much as I wanted. Also please don't tell me what I would and would not do.

[Maksimov]

I am amazed, nay stunned, at how readily most of you seem to have accepted that Cobham can't easily produce world class players, or premiership class players, or even 'on-loan-to-Blackpool' class players.

It's not easy to train the players to become good enough to challenge for places in the starting eleven when the squad is filled with experienced international players. When a team has had four managers in the space of two years, I'm not surprised when the new manager coming in isn't too willing to take risks with the youngsters. They know they have to hit the ground running and they become so afraid of taking risks that you won't see them play the youngsters even in the early rounds of the cup competitions because they know that if they can't bring even one trophy to the club's trophy cabinet, they will be fired. Fergie constantly brings in youngsters into the squad and I doubt they are that much better than our youngsters(if at all), but when you have been at a club for over 20 years and have won the club tons of trophies, you're allowed to make a few mistakes here and there. It's this instant success bullcrap that's stopping us from introducing the youngsters into the first team. I'm not saying we should become a new Arsenal either because even the best youth academies struggle to produce more than 2-3 first team ready players per year(and they might struggle to produce even 2 or three players) and a team needs experience to be truly competitive on all fronts.

[TomP]

I haven't see any youth games, or footage of the players training, but I take it from the "Not Sinclair and Stoch standard" you must have. Can you elaborate? They haven't played in the first team to be judged on those 7 ½ minutes.

When I say "Not Sinclair and Stoch standard", what I mean is that if we decide to integrate someone like Stoch into the first team setup this season, it really is playing him just because he's come from the youth acadamy. Not because of his actual playing ability.

Think about it. If Stoch didn't play for us (say he was in West Ham's reserves), would you been keen on us signing him as a backup winger?

I do watch the odd reserves match (can't say I watch them all), and definately read all the match reports, and I haven't seen any evidence that Stoch is the same quality as Messi, Rooney or Aguerro when they were 18 years old. Unfortuantely, that is the type of quality that someone like Stoch needs to break straight from acadamy/reserve football to the Chelsea first team.

The other way into the first team is this:

Stoch needs to absolutely dominate the reserve league. He needs to be the best player on the park pretty much every time he plays (the way that Carlton Cole was). Then he needs to go out on loan to a lower division club and do the same thing. Then he needs to go on loan to a Premiership club and be the outstanding player at that club. Then we should think about recalling him.

I think those are the two ways into the Chelsea first team for a youth player:

1. Outstanding early-developing world class players should go straight in (we don't have any at the moment)

2. Any promising, but not yet world class youth player who is dominating the reserve matches deserves the chance to prove themselves on loan.

[rahul]

When I say "Not Sinclair and Stoch standard", what I mean is that if we decide to integrate someone like Stoch into the first team setup this season, it really is playing him just because he's come from the youth acadamy. Not because of his actual playing ability.

Think about it. If Stoch didn't play for us (say he was in West Ham's reserves), would you been keen on us signing him as a backup winger?

I do watch the odd reserves match (can't say I watch them all), and definately read all the match reports, and I haven't seen any evidence that Stoch is the same quality as Messi, Rooney or Aguerro when they were 18 years old. Unfortuantely, that is the type of quality that someone like Stoch needs to break straight from acadamy/reserve football to the Chelsea first team.

The other way into the first team is this:

Stoch needs to absolutely dominate the reserve league. He needs to be the best player on the park pretty much every time he plays (the way that Carlton Cole was). Then he needs to go out on loan to a lower division club and do the same thing. Then he needs to go on loan to a Premiership club and be the outstanding player at that club. Then we should think about recalling him.

I think those are the two ways into the Chelsea first team for a youth player:

1. Outstanding early-developing world class players should go straight in (we don't have any at the moment)

2. Any promising, but not yet world class youth player who is dominating the reserve matches deserves the chance to prove themselves on loan.

Absolutely spot on!

[Mike O]

It's not easy to train the players to become good enough to challenge for places in the starting eleven when the squad is filled with experienced international players. When a team has had four managers in the space of two years, I'm not surprised when the new manager coming in isn't too willing to take risks with the youngsters. They know they have to hit the ground running and they become so afraid of taking risks that you won't see them play the youngsters even in the early rounds of the cup competitions because they know that if they can't bring even one trophy to the club's trophy cabinet, they will be fired. Fergie constantly brings in youngsters into the squad and I doubt they are that much better than our youngsters(if at all), but when you have been at a club for over 20 years and have won the club tons of trophies, you're allowed to make a few mistakes here and there. It's this instant success bullcrap that's stopping us from introducing the youngsters into the first team. I'm not saying we should become a new Arsenal either because even the best youth academies struggle to produce more than 2-3 first team ready players per year(and they might struggle to produce even 2 or three players) and a team needs experience to be truly competitive on all fronts.

Very good point indeed. Maybe one day we'll have that sort of stability, maybe...

It does lead me to another point on all this, though. I live in the Chelsea catchment area and know a load of kids who have reached the point in their football where they are getting sniffed at by professional clubs.

The consensus amongst parents, and even some of the kids themselves, is that although Chelsea have all the glamour credentials, signing for them is effectively a waste of time. A move to Chelsea is seen to invariably lead to no real progress and inevitable disappointment, whilst a move to, say, Fulham or Brentford or West Ham or even AFC Wimbledon (who have a brilliant academy) will be more fulfilling and umpteen times more likely to lead to a professional career.

Now none of the youngsters I know are anywhere near world class, but that cynicism has to be shared by top drawer prospects as well when they see the evidence of the last 7 years, which leads me to the conclusion....

If you want to attract world class youth prospects into your academy, you have to prove that they can progress into the first team. As such there is no proof.

My view is you can expect no real progress from the Academy proteges until that reality changes.

Vicious circle or what?

[youlots]

The constant pressure of silverware (especially for the top four) vs youth development. I really think the FA should do us all a favour and solve this connundrum and bring in a policy where at least, say up to the semis of the Carling and say the 6th round of the FA Cup, each of the top four on the previous season's standings have to play at least 3 or 4 kids in their squads in every one of those games. Like some I want to see the kids given a chance.

[Nibs]

The constant pressure of silverware (especially for the top four) vs youth development. I really think the FA should do us all a favour and solve this connundrum and bring in a policy where at least, say up to the semis of the Carling and say the 6th round of the FA Cup, each of the top four on the previous season's standings have to play at least 3 or 4 kids in their squads in every one of those games. Like some I want to see the kids given a chance.

That's a good idea.

Expanding on that, WTF is the latest on that one that does the rounds every now and again about clubs having to field (or at least have in the squad) so many home grown players?

It seems it's getting brought in and then there's mention of restriction of trade or whatever and it get's shelved.

Bollocks to that. Surely it's about time the FA, EUFA, FIFA - whoever, saw some sense & got together and did something definite once and for all. So clubs like Us, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal and of course Real Madrid could not go out and sign all the best foreigners about and hopefully we would see ALL sides with a number of youth products.

That would hopefully see and end to signings like Shevchenko, Ballack and Deco.