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Avram good enough?


Stewartd7

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So far, Grant certainly doesn't fill me with confidence, and I am still to see his sexy football? THe Anelka goal last week was about it. I don't think he knows how to motivate the team enough, which is unbelievable against the big 3. He looks emotionless on the bench, and I feel that feeds out onto the pitch

I know that he has a lot of injured players, so I will wait and see what he can do with a full squad, and yes he is still playing with a Jose team, so it could be unfair to judge him on these performances. However, I just don't feel that he is the manager that will win things for us. I also doubt that he will be the manager next season. Or, he might be given a blank cheque book in the summer, and given one season to prove himself. But I think ten Cate and Clarke could do a job for us with or without Grant there looking glum

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I've been saying it since he got the job - Grant's simply not good enough. As a manager he leaves a lot to be desired: -

- the team never seems to be well motivated

- the team selections could be better - Lampard should never have started today

- the tactics are sh*te

- his substitutions aren't too good, and are usually made far too late

- he persists in putting Malouda & Pizzarro in the squad when they're clearly not good enough, yet he hasn't got the b*llocks to pick the youngsters. Weak management.

- I also think he could have done better in the transfer market this window.

I honestly think Grant's got this far by copying what Mourinho did. Recent performances (and particularly todays shambles) have been typical Mourinho performances, which is why I wasn't too disappointed when Jose left. I simply can't believe that anyone really thinks Grant is a good manager, but I suppose it takes all sorts.....

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I fail to see why we made 3 signings in the window if none of them were going to figure. I know Santos is a "player for the future" but what about Ivanovic?

Ivanovic hadn't played in like a month when he arrived so he needed some time to get fit. Last thing I heard was that he will probably play against Huddersfield. I hope that's true.

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I've been saying it since he got the job - Grant's simply not good enough. As a manager he leaves a lot to be desired: -

- the team never seems to be well motivated

We lost twice in 29 matches under Grant. I don't think a team that lacks motivation can sustain a record like that.

- the team selections could be better - Lampard should never have started today

I agree about that one 100% but if JM was still in charge he'd start Lampard,too.

- the tactics are sh*t

Our record says that these sh*t tactics somehow work and i think he needs time and a few changes in personnel to change the tactics to suit whatever style he has in mind.

- his substitutions aren't too good, and are usually made far too late

Agree with that but he didn't have many options due to things beyond his control.

- he persists in putting Malouda & Pizzarro in the squad when they're clearly not good enough, yet he hasn't got the b*llocks to pick the youngsters. Weak management.

Again, it's not like Grant loves Pizarro so much he picks him ahead of everybody else. Since day one he hasn't had a chance to work with anything that even resembles a full squad.

As for youngsters being given a chance, the only one who even remotely looks promising is Sinclair and hes still very raw.

- I also think he could have done better in the transfer market this window.

Who exactly we were supposed to buy? I thought Anelka was a very good and needed acquisition while Ivanovich and Di Santo are both young and highly rated. It's very rare to see any top players being sold in the middle of the season so we did quite well in that department.

I honestly think Grant's got this far by copying what Mourinho did. Recent performances (and particularly todays shambles) have been typical Mourinho performances, which is why I wasn't too disappointed when Jose left. I simply can't believe that anyone really thinks Grant is a good manager, but I suppose it takes all sorts.....

I wasn't too disappointed when Jose left either but it's naive to expect a team that was built for three years with certain tactical approach in mind to turn things around in a matter of a few months. It's still Jose's team because it's still has Jose's players and Grant needs a full preseason and several squad changes to be judged on merit.

My opinion.

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to me it all comes down to this -- i understand that Grant has had injury problems to deal with. however, that being said, and i mean this in all sincerity, if you took 50% of the posters to this forum, gave them the squad Avram's had, the support system in place, along with Clarke and Ten Cate, they would all probably have fared just as well as he has to this point. and even if you think that's stretching the point, i don't think you could disagree if i said that i bet 19 other Premiership managers could also have attained what he has attained to date.

the key is -- how many would have taken some points from our matches against the other big 3? not many. just world class managers.

and that's my point. we have an average manager. but a world class team. or at least a team that fancies itself as world class.

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Abramovich, I strongly disagree with nearly all your points (there's a surprise) icon_wink.gif

As for youngsters being given a chance, the only one who even remotely looks promising is Sinclair and hes still very raw.

And he's going to remain very raw if he's not given a chance. It's bloody ridiculous to select players like Pizzarro and Malouda who aren't performing to expectations, when there are promising youngsters standing by doing nothing.

Nearly all clubs take a chance with youngsters and benefit from it. Chelsea seem to have the attitude that if we've bought a big name player, then he's got to play ahead of any youth players, no matter how sh*t his form is. I'm not totally blaming Grant for that, as Mourinho had the same attitude.

And if that really is the case, why the f*ck do we bother with a youth academy? As I've posted elsewhere on this forum, I feel really sorry for our younger players as they're never going to get a chance in the first team so long as we've got a manager and/or owner who won't allow their selection.

Who exactly we were supposed to buy? I thought Anelka was a very good and needed acquisition while Ivanovich and Di Santo are both young and highly rated. It's very rare to see any top players being sold in the middle of the season so we did quite well in that department.

I was pleased with the purchase of Anelka, it was a good piece of business. As for Ivanovich and Di Santo, see my previous answer. When the hell are they going to get a chance? Again, I posted elsewhere in this forum about Spuds signing Alan Hutton and Jonathan Woodgate. Hutton would have been an excellent signing for Chelsea, yet we didn't even look at him - and it goes without saying that Woodgate would have also have been a brilliant signing, allowing us the luxury of offloading a centre back. But no, instead of that we're stuck with that useless tw*t Ben-Haim and two right-backs who aren't in the same class as Hutton.

I wasn't too disappointed when Jose left either but it's naive to expect a team that was built for three years with certain tactical approach in mind to turn things around in a matter of a few months. It's still Jose's team because it's still has Jose's players and Grant needs a full preseason and several squad changes to be judged on merit.

I don't agree with that. We've got the quality players and strength of squad to change our tactics if necessary, but Grant simply won't do that. He persists in playing 4-5-1, which some misguided people laughingly call a 4-3-3, a system that suits Drogba, but not Anelka. Yet he continues to use that system. Under Mourinho we became increasingly boring to watch, and that hasn't improved at all under Grant.

But, like I said before, it takes all sorts.....

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Here we go again,yes today was poor but thats football some you win some you don't.Fans are so fickle give Avram a chance,its like you are all waiting for him to fall,his the Boss!,time will tell so change the 4king record,we are still in all the competitions got a final to come outside chance for the tittle,and Manchester united lost so stop your moaning?.It could be worse you could be Liverpool fans come on you blues woohoo.gif

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Here we go again,yes today was poor but thats football some you win some you don't.Fans are so fickle give Avram a chance,its like you are all waiting for him to fall,his the Boss!,time will tell so change the 4king record,we are still in all the competitions got a final to come outside chance for the tittle,and Manchester united lost so stop your moaning?.It could be worse you could be Liverpool fans come on you blues woohoo.gif

We have given Grant a chance. He's been in charge for more than 20 games. That is quite alot of games if you ask me. But in that time he hasn't proved himself.

Yes, ManU lost, but we didn't take the chance to gain on them. Well we gained one point, but we needed three. We should have gotten three too.

We've played well recently and we should have done it today. However, it seems that every time we face a big team nowadays we're crap. We can't raise to the occasion.

Grant can take his fat a*se and just f*ck off back to Israel. Might as well let Clarke take over with Ten Cate as assistant. icon_rolleyes.gif

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Has anyone ever stopped and thought that perhaps Clarke could actually be a useless coach himself?

I'm not actually suggesting he is, I am just saying pointing out that we don't know cr*p. He could the best coach in the world or the worst and we would be none the wiser. So all the people who suggest he is something special are doing so from an emotional standpoint rather than a logical, results based one.

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Has anyone ever stopped and thought that perhaps Clarke could actually be a useless coach himself?

I'm not actually suggesting he is, I am just saying pointing out that we don't know cr*p. He could the best coach in the world or the worst and we would be none the wiser. So all the people who suggest he is something special are doing so from an emotional standpoint rather than a logical, results based one.

From what I've heard Clarke has got a very good knowledge about the other teams. Apparently Mourinho used Clarke to get to know the opponent.

I think Clarke knows alot. He's been assistant a long, long time and has probably learnt a thing or two. Perhaps he's become like a hybrid. The best from Ranieri and Mourinho icon_eek.gif

Or else, he hasn't learnt anything and would be a crap manager (apart from his knowledge).

He looks better than Grant, so that's enough for me icon_wink.gif

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And i've heard that Avram Grant is the best manager on the planet....... (okay I didn't really, but you get my point) and that 2 losses in 26 games with the injury run we've had would appear to assist in that assertion rather than disprove it.

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we drew at home to Liverpool,

I think it was a mistake to play Lampard for reasons I stated on another thread rather than his fitness but lets be serious here, managers make mistakes and if Lampard had have been fit to play and not picked, had we lost people would have slated Grant for not playing a player who has been one of our top scorers most seasons,

I wonder if Fergie is getting slated by UTD fans for being tactically outsmarted by Sven?

Eveyone says its cos Fergie and Wenger have been with their clubs so long that they do so well unyet a home draw for us brings the knives back out?

I was very dissapointed today and can understand the complaints as with UTD losing three points would have been superb but look at the record under Grant and then think about the players, the players who when we win are doing it because they are great players and just doing what Jose told them with Jose's will to win,

when they Draw though they have done what Grant told them and had no will to win?

Same old tune every time we dont get three points and sometimes when we do...boring now.

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against the top six...

P7 W0 L3 D4

Don't give me any excuses. He has a team worth more than the rest of the league combined (close to £250M) and one that ANY manager on the planet would kill to have. We don't need him to have more "time to place his stamp" on the club. We've had quite enough of his imprint already and he simply isn't good enough. As they say in the barber shop....NEXT!

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Peeking duck proved me point... The top 6 sides are all Grant's nemesis or Achille's heel.

Grant has to go... no wins against Arsenal. Manure, Liverpool and even Aston Villa.

We even struggled to overcome Portsmouth ( 1-0 & then 1-1).

Mourinho, Mourinho... where thou art, Mourinho?

When the winds of Russian rouble is gone, when all stakes are reduced...

Well, forget it. We are going to win sh*t this season NotAvingIt.gif

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Peeking duck proved me point... The top 6 sides are all Grant's nemesis or Achille's heel.

Except for the part where we've outplayed Everton comfortably all three times we've played them (even if they did fluke a point in the league). And except for beating Liverfool in the Carling Cup. And I note you didn't mention Man City, who're on the same number of points as Villa/Everton. I seem to recall Grant doing pretty well against them.

Besides which, if you don't like watching us struggle to break down a Benitez team in all-out defense mode, why exactly are you crying for Jose back? Most of our games against them under him were pretty similar, although our passing was even worse than usual this time.

Grant's record against the top teams certainly isn't great, but I don't think he's been our biggest problem in any of them.

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against the top six...

P7 W0 L3 D4

And now that I look more closely, this is including Jose's results (loss v Villa, draw v Liverpool). Grant's record is P5, L2, D3 - definitely still disappointing, but not as bad. Especially considering that one of the losses was an away match four days after he'd taken over with several key players missing and the ref having a mare.

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Hutton would have been an excellent signing for Chelsea, yet we didn't even look at him - and it goes without saying that Woodgate would have also have been a brilliant signing, allowing us the luxury of offloading a centre back. But no, instead of that we're stuck with that useless tw*t Ben-Haim and two right-backs who aren't in the same class as Hutton.

I just cant agree with this, but lets lot start!

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Abramovich, I strongly disagree with nearly all your points (there's a surprise) icon_wink.gif

And he's going to remain very raw if he's not given a chance. It's bloody ridiculous to select players like Pizzarro and Malouda who aren't performing to expectations, when there are promising youngsters standing by doing nothing.

Nearly all clubs take a chance with youngsters and benefit from it. Chelsea seem to have the attitude that if we've bought a big name player, then he's got to play ahead of any youth players, no matter how sh*t his form is. I'm not totally blaming Grant for that, as Mourinho had the same attitude.

And if that really is the case, why the f*ck do we bother with a youth academy? As I've posted elsewhere on this forum, I feel really sorry for our younger players as they're never going to get a chance in the first team so long as we've got a manager and/or owner who won't allow their selection.

If Sinclair's such a top talent how come no PL side wants to take him on loan? You see MU and Arse youngsters getting a run at other premiership clubs quite often, surely if he is good enough to start ahead of someone like Malouda for Chelsea the likes of Derby and Sunderland would be begging Grant to let them use the lad for a few months on a free? So far the only teams showing any interest in him are Championship clubs. Here's your answer.

I'm all for giving youngsters a chance but i wouldn't do it just for the sake of it. When someone like Pato or Messi arrives he'll cement the starting spot no matter what his age is. Sinclair at the moment is too far from that level.

I was pleased with the purchase of Anelka, it was a good piece of business. As for Ivanovich and Di Santo, see my previous answer. When the hell are they going to get a chance? Again, I posted elsewhere in this forum about Spuds signing Alan Hutton and Jonathan Woodgate. Hutton would have been an excellent signing for Chelsea, yet we didn't even look at him - and it goes without saying that Woodgate would have also have been a brilliant signing, allowing us the luxury of offloading a centre back. But no, instead of that we're stuck with that useless tw*t Ben-Haim and two right-backs who aren't in the same class as Hutton.

Well, Ivanovic hasn't played since November so he needed to get fit. Di Santo is 18 and won't get much playing time this season, most likely will end up on loan somewhere. I'm not sure what you expected from either.

Beletti and Ferreira are both internationals and played at the top level for a long time, having won CL with their previous clubs along the way. Hutton may be a great young talent but to suggest that our two right backs are not in the same class is a bit over the top.

He is yet to prove himself in the PL.

Woodgate is a quality defender but why do you think he'd rather sit on the bench as #4 option at Chelsea than start for Spurs every match alongside King? Ben Haim is as good as it gets when it comes to fourth choice centerbacks. Not to mention that Woodgate spends most of the season in the physioroom.

I don't agree with that. We've got the quality players and strength of squad to change our tactics if necessary, but Grant simply won't do that. He persists in playing 4-5-1, which some misguided people laughingly call a 4-3-3, a system that suits Drogba, but not Anelka. Yet he continues to use that system. Under Mourinho we became increasingly boring to watch, and that hasn't improved at all under Grant.

But, like I said before, it takes all sorts.....

OK who is he supposed to play in that changed formation? With Sheva,Drogba and Kalou out his only choice to play two strikers upfront is Anelka and Pizarro and the latter one is obviously not good enough. I agree that Anelka shouldn't ideally be used a lone striker but what choice does Grant have?

We've got the quality players and we've got a strong squad but i don't think it's flexible enough to change our tactics(too many players with similar qualities). And this season in particular because of the terrible luck with long term injuries to key players and ACN both happening during our busiest period that squad depth was tested to the limit. It won't be entertaining because our current team is built to suffocate the opposition and grind out the results which we were doing for quite some time.

I remember Ten Cate being interviewed after his arrival at CFC and some journo asked him if he could make Chelsea play Barcelona like football. He basically said that to play that style of football you need different type of players and while Chelsea players are great in their own merit it's not the same thing.

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