MannyJello Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 i know we console ourselves by saying it's a crapshoot, and just like flipping a coin, but i think that we have lost all 4 shoot-outs we have had since 2003. 21 May 2008 -- Champions League Final -- Lose 6-5 to ManUtd 05 Aug 2007 -- Community Shield -- Lose 3-0 to ManUtd 01 May 2007 -- Champions League Semis -- Lose 4-1 to Pool 26 Oct 2005 -- Carling Cup Quarters -- Lose 5-4 to Charlton can someone correct me if there are others i'm missing? i almost seem to recall us going to PKs in a friendly pre-season match a few years back, but maybe i'm off on that one.
glory55 Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 As an Englishman we can vouch that penalties are a lottery. Were not bad at penalties,we have been unlucky with them. We have really good players who are very calm at the penalty spot.
MannyJello Posted May 22, 2008 Author Posted May 22, 2008 As an Englishman we can vouch that penalties are a lottery. not sure why you qualify the lottery vouch with your nationality. they're a lottery for any club, regardless of country. and the 4 teams who have beaten us have all been English, too. Were not bad at penalties,we have been unlucky with them.We have really good players who are very calm at the penalty spot. agreed, but we've also had some muppets miss some, too. 2008 CL - Anelka and Terry (he gets a pass) 2008 Community Shield - Pizarro, SWP and Lampard (also gets a pass for his dozens of successes from the spot over the years) 2007 CL - Robben and Geremi 2005 Carling - Huth (not sure why he was one of our 1st 5, but there you are)
Skiddlywoah Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 The only win on penalties that I can recall occured in July 2003, 1 month after Roman took over... 27 Jul 2003 -- Asia Cup Final -- Won 5-4 against Newcastle Jermaine Jenas tried a cheeky chip penalty which went high over the bar...
Englishman Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 We won a few in the Gullit-Vialli era, against Blackburn, Ipswich and Newcastle in early cup rounds.
glory55 Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 As an Englishman we can vouch that penalties are a lottery. not sure why you qualify the lottery vouch with your nationality. they're a lottery for any club, regardless of country. and the 4 teams who have beaten us have all been English, too. Were not bad at penalties,we have been unlucky with them.We have really good players who are very calm at the penalty spot. agreed, but we've also had some muppets miss some, too. 2008 CL - Anelka and Terry (he gets a pass) 2008 Community Shield - Pizarro, SWP and Lampard (also gets a pass for his dozens of successes from the spot over the years) 2007 CL - Robben and Geremi 2005 Carling - Huth (not sure why he was one of our 1st 5, but there you are) Well im sure why! Because England always go out of tournaments on penalties thats why! We are famous for it! World cup 1990,Euro 1996,World cup 1998,Euro 2004,World cup 2006. So as an Englishman we know plenty about it. Dont be a trigger happy yank
Backbiter Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 We won a few in the Gullit-Vialli era, against Blackburn, Ipswich and Newcastle in early cup rounds. I've seen us win on pens!! It was back in 1983 at the Bridge in a 2nd leg League cup tie v Leicester!! Seriously, I remember thinking back then that it didn't feel like a real victory, and I knew then I'd never get the same joy from winning a trophy on a shoot-out as I would in a proper normal-time victory. If replays were good enough in 1970 and 71..... I know people will think I'm nuts but I would genuinely prefer us to win our trophies outright rather than on pens. Obviously I'd have gone mental if JT hadn't slipped and missed by the width of a post last night, but when we do win the CL it'll be all the sweeter if we dnon't just nick it on pens
MannyJello Posted May 22, 2008 Author Posted May 22, 2008 So as an Englishman we know plenty about it.Dont be a trigger happy yank gotcha, well aware of your history, didn't think that's what you were referring to, glory. my nerves are worn thin today, for understandable reasons. sorry for my spurs jingling and jangling on you.
g3.7 Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 we got one in 1996 too, though glory. but i think that england and germany prove it's not a lottery. like football itself, luck is involved but there are players consistently great at taking and saving pens, and sadly we've often lacked them.
Backbiter Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 We've not missed a pen this season. Not in a match situation anyway.
coco Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Why the hell dont they just scrap penalties and try this.... If its tied on 90 mins the ref should blow up for full time, both teams change ends & carry on playing, every time the ball goes out of play (throw in's and corners) each team MUST take one player each of the playing field, this will create more space and more chances. The ball usually goes out of play every couple of minutes, the chances are someone would score before too long. A bit like the golden goal, but better because both teams will try and score rather than play down the clock for penalties.
blueday3 Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Nationality can affect the PK situation. Germans never miss from the spot. The only time last night when i was calm was when Ballack stepped up for his shot. (Though he scared me a bit because I think that the keeper guessed the right way)
coco Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Nationality can affect the PK situation. You mean like if a Dutchman wore clogs for penalties, or a Japanese keeper sat on the goaline with folded legs ? How does nationality affect penalties ?
MannyJello Posted May 22, 2008 Author Posted May 22, 2008 Nationality can affect the PK situation. You mean like if a Dutchman wore clogs for penalties, or a Japanese keeper sat on the goaline with folded legs ? How does nationality affect penalties ? the myth/sterotype is that Germans are the best penalty takers because they are precise, they are not known for creativity but instead power and proper placement, and they don't get nervous because they are dispassionate and trained to succeed in such situations. it would be interesting to see a world-wide study to see if that holds up. while the dour and pessimistic English bottle the chances because they are more worried about messing up than they are excited to be in such a spot, and then they get mental thinking about the pressure, and then they choke. again, the stereotype.
coco Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Nationality can affect the PK situation. You mean like if a Dutchman wore clogs for penalties, or a Japanese keeper sat on the goaline with folded legs ? How does nationality affect penalties ? while the dour and pessimistic English bottle the chances because they are more worried about messing up than they are excited to be in such a spot Their were 3 penalties missed last night... 1 Portugese 1 English 1 French Its got nothing to do with nationality imho.
g3.7 Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 history shows it's not a myth. talking about for national sides... it's a case of attitude and approach. it's a mental thing, but to suggest it's a lottery (i.e. random) isn't backed up by history.
TomP Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 A lot of it comes down to the keeper - some keepers are a lot better at penalties than others. Ricardo from Portugal springs to mind. I wouldn't swap him for Cech in a million years, but in penalty shootouts, he looks like he is going to save every spot kick in shootouts. It also comes down to mind games between the keeper and the takers - I remember thinking just before Anelka missed that all our penalties had been struck to the left of Van der Saar - as soon as Anelka put one to his right, he saved it. You can analyse it all you want, but on the night it comes down to a combination of two things - confidence and luck.
blueday3 Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Agree totally Tom I noticed that as well everyone had gone right. And about Ricardo, its unbelievable he is so bad in games but so good in penalties, and he is a pretty small guy too it doesn't make sense.
icecoolguy22 Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 From the last 2 penalty shootouts I have seen, Cech never 'made himself big' or distract penalty takers in any legatimate way (let alone playing dirty tricks). For a man of his reach, by extending his arms out would have put doubt in penalty takers, but he just stood there in normal Goal keeping position. i take Cech over any GK in the world any day, but Penalty Saving is his weakness, and I dont see a quick fix for it.
Chelsea FC Champions Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 maybe cuducini could teach him how to save penalty?
glory55 Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 In the mid 90's I remember my dad being at a game where we won on Penalties. It was a Cup replay at St James Park,Hitchy saved one and Eddie Newton scored the goal that took us through.
Valerie Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Nationality can affect the PK situation. You mean like if a Dutchman wore clogs for penalties, or a Japanese keeper sat on the goaline with folded legs ? How does nationality affect penalties ? Well, those clogs do get in the way. Once the Dutch national team found that out after losing every penalty shoot-out you can think of, the players switched to real football boots. SUCCESS! So you see, it IS possible to turn things around....
ethicalstrategy Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 From the last 2 penalty shootouts I have seen, Cech never 'made himself big' or distract penalty takers in any legatimate way (let alone playing dirty tricks). For a man of his reach, by extending his arms out would have put doubt in penalty takers, but he just stood there in normal Goal keeping position. i take Cech over any GK in the world any day, but Penalty Saving is his weakness, and I dont see a quick fix for it. Well he saved as many penalties as Van Der Sar did.
Chelsea FC Champions Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Cech has to move a round,he has to have the instinct
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