Zeta

Which points do you want me to debate?
If it's about leaving some players behind who are better on the ball, yes, I agree we should have brought some differernt players. I don't watch much beyond CHelsea, so can't comment on players form this year, but I would have brought people like Trent, Foden, maybe Wharton who had a good season I believe. And left people like |Henderson, Chalobah, etc... at home. He could have used Mainoo in the middle as well.
If it's about him failing to change the mindset - yes, he did. But this is something I don't think you can lay entirely on the manager. You can try as hard as you like, but you can't change what's going on inside another man's head, and if 11 of them decide that they are under too much pressure to push forward and naturally retreat, it's very hard to change that. In that scenario where the team is going against instruction and won't do anything but defend, I'm not sure there are many managers who could motivate them out of it.
I agree with a lot of the points in isolation. What I don't agree with is laying 100% of the blame on the manager, when clearly the players were A) either not good enough, or not mentally/physically up for the fight, and B) didn't do what the manager wanted them to do.

It's hard to have a real debate on it here, because some people have had a hate boner for Tuchel since the moment he walked into Stamford Bridge and can't wait to slag him off at every turn.

It's hard to have a real debate on it here, because some people have had a hate boner for Tuchel since the moment he walked into Stamford Bridge and can't wait to slag him off at every turn.

Which points do you want me to debate?
If it's about leaving some players behind who are better on the ball, yes, I agree we should have brought some differernt players. I don't watch much beyond CHelsea, so can't comment on players form this year, but I would have brought people like Trent, Foden, maybe Wharton who had a good season I believe. And left people like |Henderson, Chalobah, etc... at home. He could have used Mainoo in the middle as well.
If it's about him failing to change the mindset - yes, he did. But this is something I don't think you can lay entirely on the manager. You can try as hard as you like, but you can't change what's going on inside another man's head, and if 11 of them decide that they are under too much pressure to push forward and naturally retreat, it's very hard to change that. In that scenario where the team is going against instruction and won't do anything but defend, I'm not sure there are many managers who could motivate them out of it.
I agree with a lot of the points in isolation. What I don't agree with is laying 100% of the blame on the manager, when clearly the players were A) either not good enough, or not mentally/physically up for the fight, and B) didn't do what the manager wanted them to do.

Which points do you want me to debate?
If it's about leaving some players behind who are better on the ball, yes, I agree we should have brought some differernt players. I don't watch much beyond CHelsea, so can't comment on players form this year, but I would have brought people like Trent, Foden, maybe Wharton who had a good season I believe. And left people like |Henderson, Chalobah, etc... at home. He could have used Mainoo in the middle as well.
If it's about him failing to change the mindset - yes, he did. But this is something I don't think you can lay entirely on the manager. You can try as hard as you like, but you can't change what's going on inside another man's head, and if 11 of them decide that they are under too much pressure to push forward and naturally retreat, it's very hard to change that. In that scenario where the team is going against instruction and won't do anything but defend, I'm not sure there are many managers who could motivate them out of it.
I agree with a lot of the points in isolation. What I don't agree with is laying 100% of the blame on the manager, when clearly the players were A) either not good enough, or not mentally/physically up for the fight, and B) didn't do what the manager wanted them to do.

Which points do you want me to debate?
If it's about leaving some players behind who are better on the ball, yes, I agree we should have brought some differernt players. I don't watch much beyond CHelsea, so can't comment on players form this year, but I would have brought people like Trent, Foden, maybe Wharton who had a good season I believe. And left people like |Henderson, Chalobah, etc... at home. He could have used Mainoo in the middle as well.
If it's about him failing to change the mindset - yes, he did. But this is something I don't think you can lay entirely on the manager. You can try as hard as you like, but you can't change what's going on inside another man's head, and if 11 of them decide that they are under too much pressure to push forward and naturally retreat, it's very hard to change that. In that scenario where the team is going against instruction and won't do anything but defend, I'm not sure there are many managers who could motivate them out of it.
I agree with a lot of the points in isolation. What I don't agree with is laying 100% of the blame on the manager, when clearly the players were A) either not good enough, or not mentally/physically up for the fight, and B) didn't do what the manager wanted them to do.

Which points do you want me to debate?
If it's about leaving some players behind who are better on the ball, yes, I agree we should have brought some differernt players. I don't watch much beyond CHelsea, so can't comment on players form this year, but I would have brought people like Trent, Foden, maybe Wharton who had a good season I believe. And left people like |Henderson, Chalobah, etc... at home. He could have used Mainoo in the middle as well.
If it's about him failing to change the mindset - yes, he did. But this is something I don't think you can lay entirely on the manager. You can try as hard as you like, but you can't change what's going on inside another man's head, and if 11 of them decide that they are under too much pressure to push forward and naturally retreat, it's very hard to change that. In that scenario where the team is going against instruction and won't do anything but defend, I'm not sure there are many managers who could motivate them out of it.
I agree with a lot of the points in isolation. What I don't agree with is laying 100% of the blame on the manager, when clearly the players were A) either not good enough, or not mentally/physically up for the fight, and B) didn't do what the manager wanted them to do.

Never heard of him. Doesn't seem very good particularly. Lots of money. So, no.

I think Tuchel is defintely taking far more of the blame than he should be. Literally the second we scored, the players all dropped back and stopped doing anything but defend. I can't imagine this was the plan. Tuchel has said it wasn't the plan, that they should have been going for the 2nd, but whether due to mentality, or fitness, they just couldn't do anything but defend. So he tried see it out. But, that being said, the subs were not great, we could have tried to force the issue by bringing on more attackers or more pace to stretch them, we also sacrificed the middle of the pitch.
In hindisight you can look at some of the players left at home and wonder if they could have helped.
I think the blame is pretty 50-50 between the manager and the players, they all got it wrong, for various reasons. Let's not pretend that it's 100% Tuchel and the players are blameless. The simple fact is they weren't good enough on the pitch and were out played, out run and out fought for the majority of the game.

I think Tuchel is defintely taking far more of the blame than he should be. Literally the second we scored, the players all dropped back and stopped doing anything but defend. I can't imagine this was the plan. Tuchel has said it wasn't the plan, that they should have been going for the 2nd, but whether due to mentality, or fitness, they just couldn't do anything but defend. So he tried see it out. But, that being said, the subs were not great, we could have tried to force the issue by bringing on more attackers or more pace to stretch them, we also sacrificed the middle of the pitch.
In hindisight you can look at some of the players left at home and wonder if they could have helped.
I think the blame is pretty 50-50 between the manager and the players, they all got it wrong, for various reasons. Let's not pretend that it's 100% Tuchel and the players are blameless. The simple fact is they weren't good enough on the pitch and were out played, out run and out fought for the majority of the game.

I love the guy, he's one of the most talented players out of our youth team in a long time, but he's just not the same player he was. We all hold onto hope that he might finally be over injury ssues, but it's chronic and it's clearly not going away, and that means you just can't rely on him especially in big games, or to even be available enough to build into your team plans. If we were playing that 2021 CL final tonight with current James, there's no way he'd catch up and make some of the tackles and clearances he did, and then he'd be off the pitch with tight hamstrings before the end. It's a f**king shame to see such a talented player not be able to fulfill his potential, but it's reality.

Plays better deeper.

I love the guy, he's one of the most talented players out of our youth team in a long time, but he's just not the same player he was. We all hold onto hope that he might finally be over injury ssues, but it's chronic and it's clearly not going away, and that means you just can't rely on him especially in big games, or to even be available enough to build into your team plans. If we were playing that 2021 CL final tonight with current James, there's no way he'd catch up and make some of the tackles and clearances he did, and then he'd be off the pitch with tight hamstrings before the end. It's a f**king shame to see such a talented player not be able to fulfill his potential, but it's reality.

It seems like the plan wasn't to sit back, but the players immediately did it after scoring and Argentina pushed forward so much, as it's just natural to drop deeper. And Tuchel wanted to try and stop all the crosses coming in by adding more width to the back line. Unfortunately he sacrificed the midfield for that, which meant they just had so much control they could just keep trying until it worked, and with no out ball because Kane and Bellingham were invisible all game, we couldn't get out.

It seems like the plan wasn't to sit back, but the players immediately did it after scoring and Argentina pushed forward so much, as it's just natural to drop deeper. And Tuchel wanted to try and stop all the crosses coming in by adding more width to the back line. Unfortunately he sacrificed the midfield for that, which meant they just had so much control they could just keep trying until it worked, and with no out ball because Kane and Bellingham were invisible all game, we couldn't get out.

I love the guy, he's one of the most talented players out of our youth team in a long time, but he's just not the same player he was. We all hold onto hope that he might finally be over injury ssues, but it's chronic and it's clearly not going away, and that means you just can't rely on him especially in big games, or to even be available enough to build into your team plans. If we were playing that 2021 CL final tonight with current James, there's no way he'd catch up and make some of the tackles and clearances he did, and then he'd be off the pitch with tight hamstrings before the end. It's a f**king shame to see such a talented player not be able to fulfill his potential, but it's reality.

Mistake.

In hindsight, going so ultra defence was a mistake, yes. It was clear that even with 11 behind the ball, Argentina were finding spaces and chances, so swithcing to an extra defender wasn't really going to help with that. The alternative is we push more players up and try to counter and stop them having so much of the ball. Which on paper sounds fine, but in reality, we would have just lost anyway, because they were out running and out fighting us all over the pitch, and were simply man for man, the better team.
Still don't own the falklands, though.

Plays better deeper.

In hindsight, going so ultra defence was a mistake, yes. It was clear that even with 11 behind the ball, Argentina were finding spaces and chances, so swithcing to an extra defender wasn't really going to help with that. The alternative is we push more players up and try to counter and stop them having so much of the ball. Which on paper sounds fine, but in reality, we would have just lost anyway, because they were out running and out fighting us all over the pitch, and were simply man for man, the better team.
Still don't own the falklands, though.

Argentina simply the better team all over the pitch. Can't have too many complaints.

Argentina simply the better team all over the pitch. Can't have too many complaints.

In hindsight, going so ultra defence was a mistake, yes. It was clear that even with 11 behind the ball, Argentina were finding spaces and chances, so swithcing to an extra defender wasn't really going to help with that. The alternative is we push more players up and try to counter and stop them having so much of the ball. Which on paper sounds fine, but in reality, we would have just lost anyway, because they were out running and out fighting us all over the pitch, and were simply man for man, the better team.
Still don't own the falklands, though.

Plays better deeper.

In hindsight, going so ultra defence was a mistake, yes. It was clear that even with 11 behind the ball, Argentina were finding spaces and chances, so swithcing to an extra defender wasn't really going to help with that. The alternative is we push more players up and try to counter and stop them having so much of the ball. Which on paper sounds fine, but in reality, we would have just lost anyway, because they were out running and out fighting us all over the pitch, and were simply man for man, the better team.
Still don't own the falklands, though.