Time to look forward

[loz]

I will try and be as calm as I can during this post.

We are in a position now where I think we need to look beyond this season and start to build toward creating a stronger side next season and the seasons beyond.

I say this because there are three sides in the league who, for one reason or another, are comfortably better than us (Utd, Liverpool and Villa)m and a further three who are at lest as good as us in Arsenal, Everton and Wigan.

Being realistic the main target for us this season is to ensure we finish in the top four and there is a genuine risk we will fail to achieve this.

This team, playing this way, with this manager has a very good chance of slipping out of the top four and I fail to see how making some serious changes runs the risk of that being worse.

With that in mind I would like to see.

1. Scolari sacked

2. Deco dropped

3. Ballack dropped

4. Drogba and/or Anelka dropped

And to combat this I would like to see

1. A manager appointed who has more than a few years left in their career and who has a proven track record at CLUB level

2,3 and 4 - faith to be placed in a few young players who are hungry and may still play with some desire. When I say faith I mean we pick them and stick with them for an extended period of time even of they have a few poor games. If they fail to keep is in the top four we can reassess them after they have had the chance to play 15-20 games as one thing is for certain, they will not produce performances any worse than we are seeing from our established internationals at the moment.

[loz]

I would also drop Bosingwa and try and get back to basics where the defence's first job is not conceding.

[bjd]

Nice post Loz, agree with it all.

I want Scolari to go because i can see us slipping further down the table at the moment with him at the helm. We ideally need 3rd place because of the change of the rules in the qualifying draw and who would bet on us doing that now ? The thing is can we afford to sack him ? Isnt he on a two years contract with a rolling third year option ? Not the best at maths but that i estimate that it would cost us approx £7.5 million to sack him.

Its going to be an interesting few years thats for sure. Next year is our break even year and when we will be 'spending what we earn'. Remember what Blackburn did when they stopped spending big ? Bearing in mind just how much of an overhaul our squad thats a lot of players needed. I knew long term we were never going to keep ahead of Man Utd and so enjoyed it while it lasted. They are so far away from us right now its a joke. I sense our long term position as one of the big 4 is in very serious jeopardy. Would that be a bad thing ? Would we get 'our' Chelsea back ?

Ultimately , as a Chelsea fan all i want to see is passion and effort from the team. It not about winning things its about enjoying watching footall your team play and i dont do that right now. Finishing 13th with a team of youngsters who try their bollocks off means more to me than 30 million foreigners earning 100k a week and and its pretty clear at the moment we have no passion and minimal effort and that what really hurts.

Edited January 11, 2009 by bjd

[chelsea rotterdam]

I think the big problem will be the manager!!!

who can step in at short notice and shake things up...i think a guy like hiddink has got the knowlegde and the selfbelief to do something quick with the players that are here at chelsea.

Then in the summer we need someone that knows how to build a team and is given the time to do so!!

Time is very important now if we want to build a young strong team..with a player like essien being the centre.

and dont buy anymore players around the 30 year mark or players that don't have a first team place at their club..ie deco..sheva..crespo to name a few.

Lets set our sights to dominate the league again from 2011 onwards.and then more than for 2 years more like united have done.and maybe pick up a domestic cup while building a new team

[loz]

?

Ultimately , as a Chelsea fan all i want to see if passion and effort from the team. It not about winning things its about enjoying watching footall your team play and i dont do that right now. Finishing 13th with a team of youngsters who try their bollocks off means more to me than 30 million foreigners earning 100k a week and and its pretty clear at the moment we have no passion and minimal effort and that what really hurts.

Exactly. Of the 11 who started today who do you really feel cares that much about the score? Terry and Lampard definitely. Cech and Joe probably. After that? For me - none of them.

Flip that round to the United side - who there looked like players playing as if it mattered - the vast majority of them (apart from maybe Berbatov). From people like Fletcher and Park who are far from superstars to Giggs who has won more than every player in our squad bar Belletti.

[Chelsea Lad]

As with you, I'll try to stay calm. It's f**king hard though, ain't it. ;)

Anyway I agree and a big sort out is needed. Our signings, on the whole, have been poor in RA's era and the ones who have done well are losing their hunger. So for this reason the following need to be shipped out to create funds that a billionaire cannot create:

1) Drogba - today, I think my local side, Eastbourne Boro, would have dropped him

2) Ballack - old, over-paid, ego higher than the sky and to similar to Frank

3) Deco - weak, over-paid, doesn't do enough, the odd brilliant goal doesn't cut it

4) Anelka - his kinda a bad luck charm, since his arrival we have gone down hill, good player but old and if we can squeeze £10m out of him we could bring in someone with a bit more potential and workrate

5) Malouda - didn't play today, but we all know he isn't going to cut it

6) Peter Kenyon - ok, won't happen, but he would be on my outlist

Along with them Big Phil needs to go for the following:

1) He is poor with the media - look at the mind-games being played between Liverpool and United and then look at what Scolari is saying in his press conferences. Today, after waiting 25minds after the match to see the man speak he says something along the lines of 'the confidence in the players has all gone'. Ok, maybe true but you don't go and admit it. Where's the player-punching, journo-hating Big Phil we all wanted to see?

2) Likes Deco too much, took an injury for him to be forced off at half time, Scolari goes Deco goes happy days.

3) Seems to be lacking motivational skills, you may ask do the players need motivating? Well, whether they should or should not, they do need it. Jose was a beast at motivating players and now with a motivation-lacking manager, it puts even more jobs on JT.

4) Just generally doesn't seem to care.

Then, we can look to re-shape our scouting team, bring in a young, quick, energetic, forward like Aguero plus a few other low-ego, younger players to fill a squad of 2 players per position and finally scrap the goal of becoming the world's biggest club by 2014 - it puts on too much pressure, it's a goal that really can't be measured and looks increasingly less likely to occur so when 2014 does reach we will look like right mugs.

[loz]

I think the big problem will be the manager!!!

who can step in at short notice and shake things up...i think a guy like hiddink has got the knowlegde and the selfbelief to do something quick with the players that are here at chelsea.

I wouldn't expect a new manage to be able to shake things up at short notice. I would bring in a new one and write off this season.

[chelsea rotterdam]

write off a season with still the cl to play for and still in the fa cup....

look what liverp**l did in 2005 ...out of everything in january still win the cl ....

i would setle for that.

it's getting it right on maybe 3 matches draw 1-1 away from home and shut them out at home...

we were a good cup side in the late nineties so why not this year...

[loz]

As hideous as it is to admit it Liverpool were much better that season than we are now. OK maybe I will wait till the Juve tie before writing off the season. After that I will as I see us getting beaten badly by them.

[BlueBosnian]

Such a shame we didn't sell Drogba when he was worth a "goldmine". Such a shame... Always wanted it to happen, and always knew he wouldn't fit in after Mourinho left...

[lauren]

I was thinking the same as you Loz and also wondering why oh why did we ever sack Jose.

So pissed off that I have turned my radio off today, and will tomorrow, can't bear to listen to scum and scousers phoning in.

[Chippy]

I wouldn't expect a new manage to be able to shake things up at short notice. I would bring in a new one and write off this season.

A change of manager at this stage would be doing exactly as you say and writing off this season, I can see where you're coming from but it wouldn't be my choice.

The club is a laughing stock and a revolving door for managers is a big part of the Joke, who do you suggest to take over then?

Grant was not experienced enough and everyone wanted him gone even after he got more points while he was here than UTD did in his reign and nearly got us crowned European Champions,

in comes a World Cup winner who you now call a Fool...I'd like to be a pound behind fools like him thats for sure.

who do you think wants to come here half way through a season and take over a team thats been on the wane since a season before Mourinho went and be compared to Mourinho from day one while having to play a bunch of kids because most of the team are past their best and don't give a sh*t?

I'm behind Scolari and not because I think he's a great manager but because I believe if he had the players we had three years ago he would likely be doing a better Job and although he is worrying me with obvious mistakes like not putting anyone on posts, I still feel the players are all playing like the're on Prozac.

My philosophy is very different to most as I believe you only have to be a good manager to do well with good players, thats why Ranieri got us to second, thats why Jose got us to the two titles and Grant done as well as he did.

I just feel the players that we had have got older slower and lost some desire and the few we've brought in are not good enough to make up the difference.

Look at Drogba today, I can't believe he's the same player, the only time I recognise him is when he starts moaning.

I prefer to back Scolari for the rest of the season and hope we at least make the CL next year, at least if its not looking better by the end of the season but we have hung on to CL qualification a new man can have the benefit of attracting new players to a team that will be in the CL instead of a team he took over half way and played the youngsters into a credible 9th or 10th place.

Basically I believe if we signed a couple of pacy wingers that could be the difference between a CL place and no CL place so if Abramovich wants us there he should dip in to his bin or risk us being an unatractive destination for any new players next summer.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Chippy

[PloKoon13]

It's gonna be terrible...

Tonked in front of Jose

Then we're gonna get tonked in front of Ranieri as well.

[loz]

The fact that Scolari won the world cup is, for me, totally irrelevant. Being a successful international manager is no indicator of quality at club level, especially when that successful international manager has next to no club level experience to point toward (and even the stuff he can point to was a very long time ago and in a league far removed from ours).

Who would I appoint now and who would come? May be unpopular with a lot but I would hold the door open and welcome Eriksson with open arms. He is a top drawer club football manager and he is desperate to get back to club football and get away from managing Mexico.

My concern is that I can't see Scolari hanging onto the CL place - if he does it will be by the skin of his teeth.

[Chippy]

The fact that Scolari won the world cup is, for me, totally irrelevant. Being a successful international manager is no indicator of quality at club level, especially when that successful international manager has next to no club level experience to point toward (and even the stuff he can point to was a very long time ago and in a league far removed from ours).

Who would I appoint now and who would come? May be unpopular with a lot but I would hold the door open and welcome Eriksson with open arms. He is a top drawer club football manager and he is desperate to get back to club football and get away from managing Mexico.

My concern is that I can't see Scolari hanging onto the CL place - if he does it will be by the skin of his teeth.

Ok and I share you're concern (with the players available) but don't you think getting a decent winger in (at least) even in this window which isn't easy and letting Scolari see what he can do with a bit of pace available would be a better bet than another upheaval midseason?

I have got nothing for or against Sven and would back him the same as any other manager if he was here but I would predict without additions to the squad if Scolari gave him his Job tonight the results would be the same.

The players today were not up for it and part of the reason is because they can see they haven't got enough pace to be a threat, every ball is direct at a man and half of them a defender runs round him and gets to it first, the only player who ran on to a pass was Boswinga and that went out of play.

I can see problems with Scolaris tactics and not creating chances is partly down to him but in training I doubt he realises how much slower players like Deco, Ballack and Joey are than the players that mark them.

Writing of a World cup winning managers experience as irrelevent and Changing managers at this stage are both mistakes in my opinion.

[loz]

Why do you think the world cup winning thing is relevant though? For one international and club football is massively different and for two it was a long time ago he won it. Since then he has managed a Portugal side that more often than not has looked good initially and then disappointed when the pressure was on - sounds familiar!

[Lofty]

I've been saying for a while that our form is closer to a team fighting relegation than one chasing trophies. If things don't pick up fast we're in danger of sliding down the table - forget about Champions League places, we could even conceivably struggle for a Uefa cup place. Seriously. With a side that can't defend, doesn't create chances and lacks passion it could be that bad.

Scolari? Has nothing to prove at International level. Is retiring in a couple of years - and so from the word go can no way have been considered any kind of long term solution. As I said not so long ago, the problem with this club is that we've been signing NAMES. Shevchenko, Ballack, Deco and Scolari - they're all NAMES, with big International reputations, and not one of them has been what this club has actually needed.

We were a good cup team? Not this season we ain't. We couldn't beat Burnley or Southend at home, remember? Based on that kind of cup form, apart from anything else, what makes you think we'd have a cat in hell's chance against Juventus?

I firmly believe that the players lack of motivation is almost entirely down to the manager. I've said it before and I'll say it again - it's the manager's job to instill discipline, organise the team, and to generate a motivated, winning mentality. This side displays NONE of those qualities, and the blame for this I feel can be laid squarely at Scolari's door.

Sacking Scolari now could be regarded as damage limitation - bring in a young manager with energy and ambition, not a virtual O.A.P. on the verge of retirement with no prior experience or knowledge of the Premier League., who by all accounts feels he has nothing left to prove.

[Chippy]

Why do you think the world cup winning thing is relevant though? For one international and club football is massively different and for two it was a long time ago he won it. Since then he has managed a Portugal side that more often than not has looked good initially and then disappointed when the pressure was on - sounds familiar!

You picked a small part of my response to respond to mate but I'll say this..

I dont regard it as a great relevence, but I dont disregard what he done that got him the position either and although I don't call people winners or losers as there is a lot of circumstances involved to make somebody either I would at least give him credit for not being a fool.

A fool can see we need more than a different man shouting from the sidelines and that either the players need to sort themselves out and get some desire or we need some new players.

I think Drogba is doing more harm than good and we badly need a different type of player, too many of our players are samey in style and sadly samey in attitude.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Chippy

[just]

Whatever manager comes in next, either this season or in the future, they must IMO be 100% fluent in english. No more Big Phils or Claudios. I listen to Scolari interviewed and I'm always struggling to understand what he is saying. He struggles to articulate his thoughts. I'm damn sure he has trouble communicating effectively with the players at times.

There's no hiding the fact we've gone backward massively since Jose left. Forget about players. Just focus on basic details like how sloppy we are at defending set pieces. How random the marking is. How unstructred and lacksidaisical we appear at pre-match warm-ups. How inflexible we appear to be to formation changes. During Jose's reign we heard from player after player and all members of the backroom staff about how meticulous Mourinho was in his preparation. The players knew that kind of management and preparation gave them an edge. A belief. That belief's gone and it was never coming back under Avram Grant and unfortunately it looks like it won't be coming back under Big Phil.

As for players, well we can talk all night about who should stay or go, but until we get a couple of players, (preferably wide players), with geniune pace, who can go past people with the ball at their feet, then we are gonna continue to struggle. Andy Grey on the Last Word show on SKY made an astute observation when he said, "Chelsea? Well, I just think they were so one paced today." He was right. We were.

[Essien's Strike]

i agree our team has suddenly gone over the hill - but that is in no way Scolaris fault!! to suggest getting rid of him is just the papers/media talking.

you cannot turn up to a club with all their 30+ players and specifically-bought younger ones and be told "dont play the way jose did" with his guys and then be sacked 6 months later when it doesnt win you the treble! he asked for one freakin guy to do it with and he got turned over by the arab money.

for scolari to have his fair shot he would need the same as every other new manager gets, like KK got, like sparky is getting, like 'Arry will have - the £££'s and the time to do it your way, with your guys.

he wants to play brazilian attacking football but Kenyon is saying he cant buy any players. well. then hell have to do it with the guys jose bought to play keep-ball.

not gonna work, is it?

[loz]

Chippy

Yep fair enough I didn't respond to all of them so here goes now.

The players today were not up for it and part of the reason is because they can see they haven't got enough pace to be a threat, every ball is direct at a man and half of them a defender runs round him and gets to it first, the only player who ran on to a pass was Boswinga and that went out of play.

I can see problems with Scolaris tactics and not creating chances is partly down to him but in training I doubt he realises how much slower players like Deco, Ballack and Joey are than the players that mark them.

Yet we do have pace in our youth team - not one of which has been given even a glimpse of a chance by Scolari. Everyone with half an eye open can see we lack pace and that it is a massive problem for us. At our disposal is a POSSIBLE solution to it (notice I only say 'possible' as I recognise the kids may not be able to make the step up) however Scolari doesn't seem remotely interested. He would rather carry on doing the things that aren't working week in week out irrespective of how much it us letting the team down.

I think we can all see that our midfield is slower than just about every other team we play - why shouldn't Scolari be able to?

[Scott]

That's the thing, you can't play Brazilian football with English,German,African, and French players. It's never going to happen.

[Chippy]

Chippy

Yep fair enough I didn't respond to all of them so here goes now.

The players today were not up for it and part of the reason is because they can see they haven't got enough pace to be a threat, every ball is direct at a man and half of them a defender runs round him and gets to it first, the only player who ran on to a pass was Boswinga and that went out of play.

I can see problems with Scolaris tactics and not creating chances is partly down to him but in training I doubt he realises how much slower players like Deco, Ballack and Joey are than the players that mark them.

Yet we do have pace in our youth team - not one of which has been given even a glimpse of a chance by Scolari. Everyone with half an eye open can see we lack pace and that it is a massive problem for us. At our disposal is a POSSIBLE solution to it (notice I only say 'possible' as I recognise the kids may not be able to make the step up) however Scolari doesn't seem remotely interested. He would rather carry on doing the things that aren't working week in week out irrespective of how much it us letting the team down.

I think we can all see that our midfield is slower than just about every other team we play - why shouldn't Scolari be able to?

Thanks for that mate

here's my reasons why you're idea would be too much of a risk for me,

you want to change the manager ASAP and bring in youth players for the rest of the season as they can likely run faster than the players we are using?

(Over simplified but you no what I mean)

firstly we have to pay off Scolari and hope we get someone better and I dont like that,

I don't like the rest of the plan for these reasons 1: these youth players may not be good enough and if we tumble down the league we then get to

the summer with a new manager..who we can't properly assess because he used our young players and we dont make a CL place..

we try to buy some new players but find the better ones would rather play for a team that had challenged and at least qualified for a CL place.

Our established players become even more unsettled and any value they have in the transfer market lowers as they warm the bench,

we start the new season with a couple of additions the new man likely poached from wherever he came from and who he tells will definately get a game and some youngsters who showed not much while we dropped out of contention.

thats if we could attract a new manager of any worth the way they are treated here in the first place.

I see Scolari until at least the summer as far less of a risk.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Chippy

[loz]

Fair enough however you are making the assumption that the current first team selection are going to qualify for the CL - I don't share that confidence. I think we are going to tumble down the league with them and I think that blooding say two youngsters will not see us doing any worse than we are just now and might see us do better.

If youngsters are not going to be turned to when the recognised established players are playing as badly and with as little desire as the current lot are then we may as well just do away with youth development in its entirety.

You know I don't want to see us drop down the league which us why you know that I am saying this because I think it might be for the best rather than as a knee jerk reaction.

[PloKoon13]

Hmmm... you make a good point. That £7.5 million could be used to buy/go towards a pacy player...