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Do you follow the same ideology as Real?


Champagne Charlie

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I post this at a very delicate moment, so i want to state this is NOT A WIND UP thread from an away supporter.

In the aftermath of today's result and your apparent 'plight' in the EPL it would seem alot of you want a change of manager.

With the way Roman dishes out P45s I can't help but see a trend in common with Valdano/Perez at Real: should a manager fail to challenge for the title for one season then it's off with his head.

Ranieri, Mourinho, Scolari, Grant and now seemingly Ancelotti the similarities mirror that of Madrid.

Now, I am not getting on my high horse, I do not wish to come across as pious or sanctimonious, I'm merely making an observation. It is RA's perogative to do as he pleases.

But do you feel comfortable with the apparent philosophy of sacking a manager if he has one poor season? I say poor because only last term you won the double and there is no guarantee you won't remain in the top 4. There's time enough to make up the gap on Spuds.

Who's to say none of those before Carlo wouldn't have got things right had they been given the time?

Have you bought into the trigger happy regime that seems to be RA's way? Is this the way forward? Can continuity only be built on this method?

Your thoughts?

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I would prefer us to have a long term manager who can build his own team and stick with us a long time. But that's just not going to be Carlo. He's tactically naive and very slow to react to things. I would prefer a younger manager who has Chelsea ties, or a young British manager.

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I post this at a very delicate moment, so i want to state this is NOT A WIND UP thread from an away supporter.

In the aftermath of today's result and your apparent 'plight' in the EPL it would seem alot of you want a change of manager.

With the way Roman dishes out P45s I can't help but see a trend in common with Valdano/Perez at Real: should a manager fail to challenge for the title for one season then it's off with his head.

Ranieri, Mourinho, Scolari, Grant and now seemingly Ancelotti the similarities mirror that of Madrid.

Now, I am not getting on my high horse, I do not wish to come across as pious or sanctimonious, I'm merely making an observation. It is RA's perogative to do as he pleases.

But do you feel comfortable with the apparent philosophy of sacking a manager if he has one poor season? I say poor because only last term you won the double and there is no guarantee you won't remain in the top 4. There's time enough to make up the gap on Spuds.

Who's to say none of those before Carlo wouldn't have got things right had they been given the time?

Have you bought into the trigger happy regime that seems to be RA's way? Is this the way forward? Can continuity only be built on this method?

Your thoughts?

I think a lot of us have given Carlo a lot more time for last season success and for the very reason you are stating (becoming like Real Madrid in relation to managers). Personally I didn't want him in the 1st place, as I thought his Milan sides were pretty average & never noticed him as a manager who was really tactically aware.

I didn't want Jose gone & very few did. Grant should never have got the job, so that leaves you with Scolari & to a lesser extent Ranieri (both of whom are not top quality club managers, as proven since).

The problem is that its not getting any better. Using your team as an example, you have gone through ups & downs since the last time you won anything, and different fans have wanted different things, but from what I can recall you have not have a run of bad form lasting more than a month. Thats what happening at ours, and I can't see it getting any better, even when we do dominate games we don't penetrate.

Its vital that we qualify for the champions league & at the moment I am not sure Carlo has it in himself to get that out of the players. However, i'm not sure if there is anyone out there available to do that right now.

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Quick answer: No we don't.

I think we all realise the importance and the desirability of having a manager in place for the long term. The problem lies in finding the right manager. Go through our last few managers:

- Rainieri: There was a feeling that days were numbered, confirmed by the manner of the Champions League defeat to Monaco

- Mourinho: Long term management doesn't seem to be in his make up. Not yet anyway. However, I think what ultimately what led to his departure was a clash of egos.

- Avram Grant: Was I think only ever going to be a stop-gap appointment.

- Scolari: His appointment was a massive mistake. His tactics were naive (zonal marking, conceding the same goal every week), his training sessions out of date. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

- Guus Hiddink. We'd have loved him to have stayed, but he was only ever here on a short term contract.

- Ancelotti: Many of us had our doubts about his appointment. These doubts may seem to have been assuaged by winning the double, but this season, the way things are going, I'm beginning to question whether the really wants the job, if his heart is actually in it.

You can go further back if you want. Vialli, Gullit, Hoddle, none of them were here for the long term, and further back again. Managerial stability is something we haven't really had since the days of Dave Sexton, and he was only here for 7 years. Man U struck lucky when they brought in Ferguson, otherwise they might well have found themselves in a similar situation to ourselves.

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Quick answer: No we don't.

I think we all realise the importance and the desirability of having a manager in place for the long term. The problem lies in finding the right manager. Go through our last few managers:

- Rainieri: There was a feeling that days were numbered, confirmed by the manner of the Champions League defeat to Monaco

- Mourinho: Long term management doesn't seem to be in his make up. Not yet anyway. However, I think what ultimately what led to his departure was a clash of egos.

- Avram Grant: Was I think only ever going to be a stop-gap appointment.

- Scolari: His appointment was a massive mistake. His tactics were naive (zonal marking, conceding the same goal every week), his training sessions out of date. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

- Guus Hiddink. We'd have loved him to have stayed, but he was only ever here on a short term contract.

- Ancelotti: Many of us had our doubts about his appointment. These doubts may seem to have been assuaged by winning the double, but this season, the way things are going, I'm beginning to question whether the really wants the job, if his heart is actually in it.

You can go further back if you want. Vialli, Gullit, Hoddle, none of them were here for the long term, and further back again. Managerial stability is something we haven't really had since the days of Dave Sexton, and he was only here for 7 years. Man U struck lucky when they brought in Ferguson, otherwise they might well have found themselves in a similar situation to ourselves.

Of all those examples I think perhaps Ranieri was the most unfortunate. He build the framework of the Championship winning side (Gallas, JT, Frank, Guddy) when the club had no money, and he was also at the helm when we signed the likes of Duff, Joe Cole, Cech, Robben. I think he was treated pretty poorly after all that. OK he messed up in the Champions League semi but he supposedly knew his fate then, and he got us there in the first place. Who is to say he wouldn't have won us the title if he had another season or 2? Jose inherited a fine team no matter what.

I think only 2 of the top English clubs have shown any patience with their managers. Arsenal and United. Even there its worth remembering that Fergie was walking a tightrope for a while before he finally came good. The FA Cup win against Palace gave him a little breathing space and United were a little lucky to get to a replay that day. If they had lost that final I wonder if he would have survived at United.

Wenger had success pretty quickly at Arsenal if memory serves me right. I think that went a long way towards the patience shown by the board. I've seen plenty of grumblings from Arsenal fans over the last few years but the current team is the result of several years of patience. Of course if they don't win anything there will be question marks over whether the patience in Wenger was wise.

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I think RA is showing a tremendous level of patience at the moment, can image his finger hovering over the red button. I'm surprised Wengar wasn't kicked out shortly after Dean went, and Fergie only stayed at utd by the skin of his teeth in his early days.

Saying that I think our downfall has been the age of our squad and not the number of managers. We haven't managed youth/hunger verses older/experienced very well - whereas AW goes for the all young approach Fergie has managed to balance the youth/experience thing where the main difference has been his older players (Giggs, Scholes, Neville) have comes through the ranks and have another affinity with the club (compare our own JT) and possible create a different spirit around the club which affects the players around them. We have bought players at a relatively old age and now when they are approaching their twilight years just haven't got the hunger or passion required to be successful. Fat cats don't chase mice and it's easier to get rid of the manager than sack a complete squad.

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Carlo needs help. He is very charismtic person, players seem to love him. The minute club decided to let Ray go our downfall began. He needs that left hand.

To refer to your topic I hope we stick with Carlo and give him the chance to turn things around. As I said he needs help and giving him Maldini or whoever he wants would be the best support. Roman is simple what comes to people. He thinks throwing money to problems is the best practice. Luiz and especially Torres are good examples of that. Now that fifa and epl are making rules restricting that I just hope Roman doesn't lose interest on us.

We need smart people in high positions in the club who wont only think money.

My solution is: Get help for Carlo. Maldini or an old Chelsea-player. Hire Guus for Arnesens position. Realistic aims for the season: 4th spot and give everything for CL. CL is totally different to EPL. Our squad is built for that tournament and you really don't need to tell them how impotant it is.

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I am entirely of the belief that Carlo needs to be here long term, not only because Hiddink isn't available but because we're only cutting off our nose to spite our face. He'll get a big payout and find another club quickly. We'll be stuck with someone like Rijkaard, who'll last a little while fall out with someone, get the arse and we'll be back to square one.

I agree with evissy that he should be given the opportunity to pick his own sideman to come in. Of course correlation doesn't imply causality and there are lots of variables that may have contributed to our decline but Wilkins' absence while perhaps not the cause of our slump hasn't exactly helped us get out of it. The club has got to find someone who is respected within the game, that speaks solid English, who can give the man a different viewpoint as to what is happening. Often during slumps you sort of can't see the forest for the trees, everything is overanalysed every little thing is tinkered with when the problem is sometimes much simpler.

The answer is giving the man more control with a staff he wants not shafting him Madrid style.

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No we have just been unlucky with managers.

Under the Abramovich era:

Ranieri was a good man but he wasn't a winner.

Mourinho great manager but a volatile character.

Grant was a stop-gap.

Scolari was the wrong man for the wrong job. He hadn't managed a club side in years and it showed.

Hiddink = the one that got away.

Ancelotti = simply not good enough and IN MY OPINION not the man to trust to oversee a transitional period.

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