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Is CFC the right club for youngsters ?


sizzler85

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I would want to touch upon this topic because it puzzles me that a player at an age around 20 is touted at 20+ Millions if he came across as a decent prospect . This is about the likes of Neymar ( 40 M ) , Pastore ( 40 M + ) , Sanchez ( 35 M ) , Lukaku ( 20 M + ) etc., These players may be truly skilled and worth a shot . They are even worth a fortune from what they were able to show to world football in a short span.

BUT what about our youngsters who are clearly very skilled yet they are not known much to world football and are very undervalued by the media and the other clubs around the world . Is the reason being we haven't done enough to showcase their talent to the world ? Surely Kakuta for all his talent and skillful play should have been a great sensation by this time had we nurtured him properly . There is some gap somewhere that orchestrates a difference between talented kids at CFC and talented kids at other clubs . We surely would not have needed a playmaker this season had we developed josh or kakuta to sure shot first team players .

Small clubs give their kids chance to succeed and when they want to make a move become very costly but big clubs usually do try to nurture young talents and try to bring them up to play in their first team. I believe if given proper chances and time , our youngsters ( Studge , Josh , Kakuta , PVA , Bruma etc, ) would have surely taken their chance . We never know if the previous management was at fault or was the club not keen enough to give them more chances in our club itself .

AVB has to take stock of this situation first and he must do his part for players like kakuta , sturridge to regain their confidence and belief that they can succeed with chelsea . Surely We can't let this situation of youngsters continue !

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AVB has to take stock of this situation first and he must do his part for players like kakuta , sturridge to regain their confidence and belief that they can succeed with chelsea . Surely We can't let this situation of youngsters continue !

I'm sure AVB will benefit from Steve Holland being promoted to first team duties as he's probably the one who knows our young players the best.

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He hasn't even started yet - give him a chance!

Where to begin... smaller (less successful / less prosperous) clubs don't have the option to go out and buy world class players, whether up and coming or established.

Whether this is a good or bad thing is debatable. Personally I think it's a bit of both Sure it would be nice to have a squad full of home grown players. In the longer term you'd have to hope that the club has ambitions along these lines. In the short to medium term, however is far easier said than done. Our academy is only just beginning to bear fruit. In years to come, as the academy becomes more established, you'd have to hope to see more and more players making the grade.

Speaking of the academy, and looking again at the longer term, remember the Youth Cup semi-final? Losing to Man U, it was apparent that they were set up to mimic their premiership counterparts, our youngsters on the other hand, looked more of a continental outfit, playing a passing game that was closer to what we've seen from Barcelona and Spain. Another sign that patience is required.

Back to the point. Not only do smaller less successful / less prosperous clubs not have the resources, neither do they operate under the same kind of pressure as a club such as ourselves. This kind of pressure, I'm sure, is what led Ancelotti to fall back on the more established players, sticking with the likes of Drogba and Lampard even when they were clearly unfit and out of form. Is AVB likely to make the same kind of mistakes? I might be wrong, but somehow I doubt it very much.

Edited by Hutch
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It's an interesting topic. I'm not entirely unsure that if Kakuta and Hazard for example were to swap clubs, that everyone would be linked with Gael and we would be starting to wonder whether Hazard would make the grade. What Hutch says is absolutely right there is pressure that leads to senior players getting picked ahead of more inexperienced youngsters. I've always held the opinion that Chelsea will never bring through youth players unless there is managerial stability, otherwise there is no incentive for the manager to play them.

I think we will see a decent amount of McEachran, Sturridge and Kakuta in and around the first team this season. I also hope we don't start paying the kind of fees quoted for the likes of Sanchez, Neymar and Pastore. I think if we want young players in the team we should be using the quality ones we have here now and not buying them from elsewhere unless they aren't exorbitant of course. Our transfer money should be spent on getting in established stars to supplement those players. The likes of Modric with proven Premier League quality are welcome for high fees, unproven Brazilian strikers with questionable temperaments are not.

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I think if we want young players in the team we should be using the quality ones we have here now and not buying them from elsewhere unless they aren't exorbitant of course. Our transfer money should be spent on getting in established stars to supplement those players. The likes of Modric with proven Premier League quality are welcome for high fees, unproven Brazilian strikers with questionable temperaments are not.

Yep , this is precisely my point . We don't have to look elsewhere for talents when we have talented youngsters in our club . We need to ensure that their talent is nurtured into performance on the field . Imagine if we pay 40 M for a youngster who is unproven at a competetive place , then it would send wrong signals to younger players who are at chelsea . Any promising youngster would choose a path where he can go to a smaller club , get established and come to a bigger club like us for exhorbitant money .

And this topic is nothing to be critical of AVB or any expectations on him . I felt CFC , as a club with a proper management structure could have done better to promote promising youngsters to first team. Many a time, we are being linked with every top young player because we have the money and do not have the patience with our youth players . This has to change is my honest assessment .

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Yep , this is precisely my point . We don't have to look elsewhere for talents when we have talented youngsters in our club . We need to ensure that their talent is nurtured into performance on the field . Imagine if we pay 40 M for a youngster who is unproven at a competetive place , then it would send wrong signals to younger players who are at chelsea . Any promising youngster would choose a path where he can go to a smaller club , get established and come to a bigger club like us for exhorbitant money .

And this topic is nothing to be critical of AVB or any expectations on him . I felt CFC , as a club with a proper management structure could have done better to promote promising youngsters to first team. Many a time, we are being linked with every top young player because we have the money and do not have the patience with our youth players . This has to change is my honest assessment .

There are many of us who would echo that.

Unfortunately there are many (and probably mostly "new fans") who love us being linked and buying £30M-£40M marquee type signings. And when you have a club and an owner who do appear to be pretty desperate to win the CL sooner rather than later, this is always going to be an issue.

Hopefully, the appointment of AVB might go some way in addressing that.

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There are many of us who would echo that.

Unfortunately there are many (and probably mostly "new fans") who love us being linked and buying £30M-£40M marquee type signings. And when you have a club and an owner who do appear to be pretty desperate to win the CL sooner rather than later, this is always going to be an issue.

Hopefully, the appointment of AVB might go some way in addressing that.

Whilst I understand your point, there is only so far that a good academy can get you. Youngsters with the talent and potential to become World Class players are few and far between. Hard work and dedication on the part of our academy is certainly part of enabling these kids to reach the highest level that they can possibly achieve, but all of the effort in the world couldn't have made Robbie Savage into Lionel Messi.

There's a (pretty high) chance that the majority of youth players of which you speak do not have the potential to become first team players for Chelsea. What they may have, however, is the potential to become first team players for teams like Everton or Roma or (as we've seen recently) Hamburg. The money from the sales of these players should (hopefully) cover the costs of buying players (Neymar, Sanchez, Hazard, Pastore etc) that are good enough to play here.

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I agree. It's all about balance. A balance of experienced, consistantly good players. Two or three quality signings and a few who have come through the academy. In an ideal world, that's how it should work and I was impressed with AVB in his press conference as I think this is pretty much how he sees it. Yes we can still make the odd big signing here and there but when we do it has to be a wise decision.

I would like to know if he was consulted at all when we were letting a number of the younger players go - like Borini, Sala and Tore etc. If we weren't even in taks with him when we let those players go, I would like to know his view. There's a fair chance that perhaps those players weren't of the required standard to play for Chelsea but I think it's a crazy situation if we let them go without first letting our new, young coach at least have a look at them first hand.

Edited by Nibs
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In short NO.

1st team football is very hard to achieve even for an established international in Chelsea. The manager is under so much pressure to win something every season that he wont take risks.

Somehow it is sad but on the other hand we win something almost every year.

It is a balancing thing. Do you want to be Arsenal who haven't won anything in a long time, who are selling their best player(cesc leaving) or to be like us and Real who buy the talent. ManU isn't actually playing with their best youngsters either so you could count them in.

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I would like to know if he was consulted at all when we were letting a number of the younger players go - like Borini, Sala and Tore etc. If we weren't even in taks with him when we let those players go, I would like to know his view. There's a fair chance that perhaps those players weren't of the required standard to play for Chelsea but I think it's a crazy situation if we let them go without first letting our new, young coach at least have a look at them first hand.

With the demands of being a manager/head coach these days, particularly at the big clubs, I would think that they have to trust the staff who are hired to run the academies, youth and reserve teams to make calls on who has and hasn’t the potential to play at the top level. So I don’t think AVB will have had any involvement in the Hamburg dealings or that he will get overly involved in decisions about the bulk of the clubs youth players.

Of course he'll be interested and kept informed but I doubt that AVB and any of his recent predecessors or contemporaries can afford to spend too much time assessing the whole youth set up while looking after increasingly large first team squads and all the press work and so on. They probably just get told that there are one or two players that are ready for his consideration and he can then take a look.

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I agree. It's all about balance. A balance of experienced, consistantly good players. Two or three quality signings and a few who have come through the academy. In an ideal world, that's how it should work and I was impressed with AVB in his press conference as I think this is pretty much how he sees it. Yes we can still make the odd big signing here and there but when we do it has to be a wise decision.

You're right there. My issue has always been paying exorbitant fees for young players when as I say someone here might be just as good. As I say someone like De Bruyne or Hazard might well only be as good as Kakuta but because they play for lower profile clubs they've been given a greater role. Let's remember that Kakuta was player of the tournament at the European U19 championships last season (Belgium didn't qualify btw).

Right now that balance you speak of isn't present. If we are being legitimate in our aim. Josh (if he doesn't go on loan) Sturridge and Kakuta should all be playing 15-20 games while Bertrand or Van Aanholt should be getting as many games as they can. I honestly think that every signing has to be at least compensated by a senior departure perhaps by a ratio greater than one.

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If you look at the list of youth team graduates who made a competitive first team appearance for Chelsea over the last decade and didn't make us regret selling them (yet at least)....

Jody Morris, Ben Sahar, Scott Sinclair, Jon Harley, Steven Watt, Nuno Morais, Lenny Pidgeley, Anthony Grant, Sam Hutchinson, Michael Woods, Jimmy Smith, Franco DiSanto, Filipe Oliveira, Alexis Nicolas, Joe Keenan, Carlton Cole and many many more

And compare if to the list of youth team graduates who made a competitive first team appearance for Chealsea over the last decade and arguably HAVE made us regret selling them...

Lassana Diarra

I think its pretty clear that Chelsea have NOT been guilty of not giving our youth team prospects enough of a chance over the last decade. The statistics overwhelmingly suggest this is so.

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Those players you listed, a lot of them only got 1 brief sub appearance though, so you can hardly call that giving them a chance.

Of those listed that we didn't regret, I still feel that a few of them could have gone on to very good things if they'd stayed with us and had the benefit of working with players and coaches of the highest quality, such as Carlton Cole & Scott Sinclair

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If you look at the list of youth team graduates who made a competitive first team appearance for Chelsea over the last decade and didn't make us regret selling them (yet at least)....

Jody Morris, Ben Sahar, Scott Sinclair, Jon Harley, Steven Watt, Nuno Morais, Lenny Pidgeley, Anthony Grant, Sam Hutchinson, Michael Woods, Jimmy Smith, Franco DiSanto, Filipe Oliveira, Alexis Nicolas, Joe Keenan, Carlton Cole and many many more

And compare if to the list of youth team graduates who made a competitive first team appearance for Chealsea over the last decade and arguably HAVE made us regret selling them...

Lassana Diarra

I think its pretty clear that Chelsea have NOT been guilty of not giving our youth team prospects enough of a chance over the last decade. The statistics overwhelmingly suggest this is so.

That arguement has been brought up before but I really don't see it as valid as a fair number of those players mentioned are going back well before our Academy was established and run like it is now. We are talking about recent players who won the FA Youth Cup - the first time Chelsea have won it for 50 years!!

I appreciate it is a very fine line which seperates the TOP players and those that look great but won't actually make it at the highest level. As well as natural ability and that extra something "special" they have to be mentally right. That's why I already have doubts about Wilshere at Arsenal. No doubt he's a real talent but compare him to Josh. You can already tell Josh is going to be a model pro and follow the path of Lampard etc. Whereas Wilshere is already showing signs of getting carried away by all the media hype and could well end up being another Gazza.

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That is true to some degree Qaz. There are some names on there that I'd dispute (mostly the non-youth players who we bought at 20, exactly the kind of players I have an issue with) but I'll leave that for others.

I also think you're leaving out the fact that our youth system has improved remarkably since the days of Lenny Pidgeley, and most people's issue stems from some of the quality prospects we've had over the past couple of seasons rather than questions about whether we should have kept Joe Keenan. (Though is anyone questioning whether Carlton Cole could have done as well as Kezman?)

I think this is crucial to getting under FFP so that we can use the likes of Chalobah and McEachran if not to be first teamers to certainly be valuable squad players to avoid paying 70K a week to players who for the most part don't play and don't necessarily set the world alight when they do.

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I was particularly saddened by the plight of one Gael Kakuta . He impressed everyone at the Euro Under -19 last summer . I was having high hopes of him making the grade at CFC and becoming a top player . But he ended up being loaned to fulham and his confidence shattered.

Inspite of the immediate success craved by Roman , still I must say he was poorly handled/nurtured by our management and Carlo . We should have tried to play as a team to his strength because we know he is a very very good player and could have come good if we supported him well . Even the great Sir Alex changed his team ethics / play to suit C.Ronaldo .

My regret is that if we had developed him into an attacking midfielder / winger , we would surely resist the temptation to spend 20+ M on a foreign player this summer . AVB's appointment in that sense gives me positive vibes that good talents are in great hands !

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You talk about Kakuta as though he's already been written off?!!

He's back with us now and I'm sure if he impresses AVB in training he will get a chance to shine for the frst team. His progress may not have been handled brilliantly up to now but it does work both ways. When he was given some game time, at times he looked all at sea and unfortunately didn't really take his chances. Looked typical of a young prospect who struggles to make an impact on the bigger stage consistently.

That said, I still hope he'll come good.

Edited by Nibs
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Is CFC the right club for youngsters ?

As good as any other club if not better.

I would want to touch upon this topic because it puzzles me that a player at an age around 20 is touted at 20+ Millions if he came across as a decent prospect . This is about the likes of Neymar ( 40 M ) , Pastore ( 40 M + ) , Sanchez ( 35 M ) , Lukaku ( 20 M + ) etc., These players may be truly skilled and worth a shot . They are even worth a fortune from what they were able to show to world football in a short span.

BUT what about our youngsters who are clearly very skilled yet they are not known much to world football and are very undervalued by the media and the other clubs around the world . Is the reason being we haven't done enough to showcase their talent to the world ? Surely Kakuta for all his talent and skillful play should have been a great sensation by this time had we nurtured him properly . There is some gap somewhere that orchestrates a difference between talented kids at CFC and talented kids at other clubs . We surely would not have needed a playmaker this season had we developed josh or kakuta to sure shot first team players .

Small clubs give their kids chance to succeed and when they want to make a move become very costly but big clubs usually do try to nurture young talents and try to bring them up to play in their first team. I believe if given proper chances and time , our youngsters ( Studge , Josh , Kakuta , PVA , Bruma etc, ) would have surely taken their chance . We never know if the previous management was at fault or was the club not keen enough to give them more chances in our club itself .

AVB has to take stock of this situation first and he must do his part for players like kakuta , sturridge to regain their confidence and belief that they can succeed with chelsea . Surely We can't let this situation of youngsters continue !

I don’t about Lukaku but our youngsters are no way near as good as Neymer, Pastore and Sanchez.

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I don’t about Lukaku but our youngsters are no way near as good as Neymer, Pastore and Sanchez.

I feel hard to accept your point that our youngsters are no way near to those names you mentioned . Is kakuta not good enough ? Josh is as good a player you will see anywhere . Do not just compare the goal scoring abilities , it is also about how he a player can create chances . May be Neymar is up high in the ladder but certainly Kakuta and josh are no way inferior in talent to the likes of pastore , sanchez etc . It is all about getting to the big stage.

The problem with our management has been expecting too many things too soon . I' m sure if we had a manager who could have shown more faith in our youngsters , they would have already been a success at CFC by now .

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I feel hard to accept your point that our youngsters are no way near to those names you mentioned . Is kakuta not good enough ? Josh is as good a player you will see anywhere . Do not just compare the goal scoring abilities , it is also about how he a player can create chances . May be Neymar is up high in the ladder but certainly Kakuta and josh are no way inferior in talent to the likes of pastore , sanchez etc . It is all about getting to the big stage.

The problem with our management has been expecting too many things too soon . I' m sure if we had a manager who could have shown more faith in our youngsters , they would have already been a success at CFC by now .

Well maybe we have. Like I said earlier, give him a chance. Ancelotti had a preference for the tried and tested. But he's gone now, why harp on about it?

Kakuta wasn't good enough when he was given the chance. He was also badly off form for the reserves. He seems to have picked up a bit while on loan at Fulham. It's a possibility his time will come yet, but to blame the management for Kakuta failing to live up to expectations, even Ancelotti with his aforementioned preferences, simply flies in the face of the facts. Actually your entire post is little more than opinion presented as fact. And while Josh arguably could have been given more playing time, he's only just turned 18. Last season he was heavily involved with the youth team and the reserves. I'm quite sure he'll have more playing time with the first team, hopefully this season.

And this:

The problem with our management has been expecting too many things too soon

The same is true for many of our fans. Look at yourself, the way you're talking you've been expecting Kakuta and Josh to already be first team regulars. I tell you what, come back this time next season, by which time AVB's will have had the opportunity to stamp his authority on the squad. Right now, with a new manager in place, and what could very well turn out to be the dawning of a new era, your complaints about past management are pretty much meaningless.

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I feel hard to accept your point that our youngsters are no way near to those names you mentioned . Is kakuta not good enough ? Josh is as good a player you will see anywhere . Do not just compare the goal scoring abilities , it is also about how he a player can create chances . May be Neymar is up high in the ladder but certainly Kakuta and josh are no way inferior in talent to the likes of pastore , sanchez etc . It is all about getting to the big stage.

The problem with our management has been expecting too many things too soon . I' m sure if we had a manager who could have shown more faith in our youngsters , they would have already been a success at CFC by now .

Fair enough, it’s a matter of opinion after all and I presume we can discuss who’s better than who until the cows come home and never find an agreement. However, the fact remains that Neymar, Sanchez and Pastore are not just players who are lucky to be in club that gives them a chance, they command a place in the starting XI at their respective clubs and Neymar, Sanchez also command a place their respective national teams while Pastore is part of the senior national squad. They are also the stars of their clubs and probably of their national teams as well.

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IMO the youngsters wont get a chance of a good run in the 1st team as the expectations for success is high in competitions .... Unless they are exceptional theres little or no chance of making it at Chelsea.

However, i see no reason in sending these guys out on loan to clubs to get the valuable experience and maybe perhaps like sturridge for example will prove themselves and can come back and be a valuable addition to the squad, if not then maybe could recoup some money for them if we decide to sell as at least they have the required experience .... We could do with one or 2 up at Falkirk who have a recent history for producing and playing youngsters and i think its a well proven track for big clubs.

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