The way I see it is that our failure to make key signings in the summer has next to nothing to do with our spectacular implosion this season. I do believe that the failure to improve the squad one iota in the summer meant that we were pretty unlikely to retain the title and extremely unlikely to make any serious attempt on wining the European Cup. So no squad improvement might have meant hanging around in third/fourth place, but 16th?! There's definitely a greater problem behind that, but I can't begin to work out what the hell it is.

I didn't see the likes of Arsenal, Spurs making massive improvements to their squads. They are 15pts and 10pts off us presently.

 

And they'll both probably end the season emptied as well. 

Mate go through the pages...

 

I'm struggling to see this 'argument' of yours.

 

I'm thinking it's more of an misinterpretation somewhere in my posts.

And they'll both probably end the season emptied as well.

But hey they haven't got 11points from 12 games with a goal difference of -7.

I'm struggling to see this 'argument' of yours.

I'm thinking it's more of an misinterpretation somewhere in my posts.

Mate honestly I couldn't give a toss about your post. I was generalizing when I made that post. If you feel I targeted you, sorry mate, its your opinion.

But hey they haven't got 11points from 12 games with a goal difference of -7.

 

But that's not what's being argued here, what's being argued is that failing to secure transfer targets that improved the team/squad is a contributing factor in the poor start to the season. 

 

It isn't the ONLY reason but it's definitely a contributing factor. 

 

Signing Papy was basically pissing on our own shoes. 

Mate honestly I couldn't give a toss about your post. I was generalizing when I made that post. If you feel I targeted you, sorry mate, its your opinion.

 

Fair enough.

 

You could've cut down on the ambiguity and be more clear with some of the stuff you've wrote though.

Edited November 18, 201510 yr by Zinc

But that's not what's being argued here, what's being argued is that failing to secure transfer targets that improved the team/squad is a contributing factor in the poor start to the season.

It isn't the ONLY reason but it's definitely a contributing factor.

Signing Papy was basically pissing on our own shoes.

Contributing factor? I agree. Main factor? BS

Papy hasn't played for him to be judged. Brana was who when he signed?

Fair enough.

You could've cut down on the ambiguity and be more clear with some of the stuff you've wrote though.

Point taken.

Contributing factor? I agree. Main factor? BS

Papy hasn't played for him to be judged. Brana was who when he signed?

I don't think anyone has said it's the main factor, that's an argument you're having with yourself.

Ivanovic was a lot more known and rated than Papy was.

Papy isn't playing because he isn't good enough to play ahead of Terry, Cahill, Zouma.

That's why we wanted Stones because he'd have been pushing those three for a starting place and not just making up the numbers.

You look at the quality of central defenders United, Arsenal and City have signed in the last two years to challenge their existing players and they're going nowhere near players of Papy's profile, it's beyond bizarre that we bothered.

I don't think anyone has said it's the main factor, that's an argument you're having with yourself.

Ivanovic was a lot more known and rated than Papy was.

Papy isn't playing because he isn't good enough to play ahead of Terry, Cahill, Zouma.

That's why we wanted Stones because he'd have been pushing those three for a starting place and not just making up the numbers.

You look at the quality of central defenders United, Arsenal and City have signed in the last two years to challenge their existing players and they're going nowhere near players of Papy's profile, it's beyond bizarre that we bothered.

It would be immature of me to start citing people posts as its their opinion and I respect that. If you say its an argument I'm having with myself, fine. That's your opinion.

Brana was more known at Locomotiv moscow? Okay.

He isn't good enough to play ahead of Terry, Cahill, Zouma ( you were privileged to watch him train at Cobham right?) but he isn't that bad to play only a few mins vs Walsall. Also how do you know if Papy played he wouldn't push the other trio?

Quality defenders Arsenal, United, City have had in the last two yrs? I wouldn't even argue this because you're seriously mistaken.

I think the lack of quality brought in, is a massive factor to why we won't be champions this year, although our current position is down to a combination of things.

Even if we had played well and we're 10 points better off, I don't think we have enough quality to beat city to the title this year.

City have improved, we have got worse.

It would be immature of me to start citing people posts as its their opinion and I respect that. If you say its an argument I'm having with myself, fine. That's your opinion.

Brana was more known at Locomotiv moscow? Okay.

He isn't good enough to play ahead of Terry, Cahill, Zouma ( you were privileged to watch him train at Cobham right?) but he isn't that bad to play only a few mins vs Walsall. Also how do you know if Papy played he wouldn't push the other trio?

Quality defenders Arsenal, United, City have had in the last two yrs? I wouldn't even argue this because you're seriously mistaken.

You imply that no one is aware of the Russian league, where players like Eto'o, Witsel and Hulk as an example have plied their trade.

What does it matter that I've not watched Papy in training, what kind of counter argument is that? I've followed football long enough to know a player with one season of top level football at the age of 27 isn't going to be better than or displace players like Terry and Cahill who have won everything going.

Off the top of my head between them City, United and Arsenal have signed the likes of Mangala, Rojo, Blind, Gabriel, Otamendi, Chambers all of which are a better calibre of player than Papy.

Chambers is a calibre of player who wouldn't get a chance under Jose

You imply that no one is aware of the Russian league, where players like Eto'o, Witsel and Hulk as an example have plied their trade.

I could as when tell you Papy is from the Ligue 1 where too many great players have plied their trade. I'm asking, did you know brana at Locomotiv before he signed for us?.

What does it matter that I've not watched Papy in training, what kind of counter argument is that? I've followed football long enough to know a player with one season of top level football at the age of 27 isn't going to be better than or displace players like Terry and Cahill who have won everything going.

Most of us haven't seen him play so unless you watch him in training, I don't see on what ground you're writing him off. You've followed football enough?. Wow, you must be better than the scout who recommended him

Off the top of my head between them City, United and Arsenal have signed the likes of Mangala, Rojo, Blind, Gabriel, Otamendi, Chambers all of which are a better calibre of player than Papy.

Like I said, I won't argue this.

Chambers is a calibre of player who wouldn't get a chance under Jose

Because Mourinho has never worked with a young defender and helped turn them into a hard working, top team player like say Paulo Ferreira, John Terry, Varane or Kurt Zouma.

Those 4 aree/were of a higher calibre than Chambers.

Anyway lets be honest, blooding and developing youth is not Jose's strong point.

Arsenal not too far in the recent past signed Squilaci or whatever his name was, and I swear there will have been players brought who are just as bad throughout all the other clubs, so to say clubs or even top clubs wouldn't buy defenders of Djilobodji quality is not true. If you are like me and only really care about the Chelsea squad these random players from other teams will go forgotten, so you won't see these clubs buying or having players of this quality but all clubs need squad depth, and to do that you will need players like Djilobodji. Heck we signed Benayoun for a season so buying players who aren't great happens.

And on Djilobodji being 27 with only 1 season at league 1 level meaning he can't be good, wasn't Drogba 26 when he arrived to us after having had just 1 season of league 1 football. I don't think we can write Djilobodji off for this reason alone some players are just late bloomers. I will have to watch him a few times before I can pass judgement, having said that I wasn't expecting him to play much when he signed, in my eyes he was here just in case, which I don't have the tiniest issue with. We already had 3 quality CB's vying for 2 places so there was already competition for places and we also had Brana who is a bad CB.   

Edited November 18, 201510 yr by PedroMendez

Drogba was 24 when he came to Chelsea and it was off the back of a season where he absolutely dominated Ligue 1 and Europe, he scored 32 goals in 55 games.

It's incomparable to the indifferent season Papy joined us off the back of.

Sorry I was slightly off according to wiki which does say that he was 26 at the time as it was 11 years ago that he joined, but it also shows that Drogba did have 2 seasons before Marseille at Guingamp who were also in Ligue 1 so he had a total of 3 seasons in a top league before he joined. But I'm still sure there have been examples of players coming out of no where later in their careers and becoming very good players especially in defence as they naturally peak later. 

Edited November 18, 201510 yr by PedroMendez

And why were the better players let go? Because they weren't played or didn't fit into the system.

No Cech & Luis left because they wanted first team football, they are both better players than their replacements Begovic and Rahman. Drogba left because the club and him wanted to move on he was clearly more useful than Falcao is, he was also a leader and united the dressing room. The replacements we got in (except Begovic who I think is an able deputy) are not good enough. We wasted money in the Summer bar one or two, it's as simple as that.

Edited November 18, 201510 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

 I've followed football long enough to know a player with one season of top level football at the age of 27 isn't going to be better than or displace players like Terry and Cahill who have won everything going.

 

2 years.

And sometimes people just can't see what is staring them in the face. Djilobodji is highly rated by quite a lot of French pundits. Stats also prove he's pretty darn good in his position. The real difference between a lot of 'top players' and 'not good enough players' is actually being given a chance. 

And on Djilobodji being 27 with only 1 season at league 1 level meaning he can't be good, (...)

 

Other discussions aside Djilobodji had 2 seasons at ligue 1 level. After his first season he was in mentioned in the context of league defender of the year and averaged some 15 defensive actions per game with the no1 in the league in terms of clearances. I've actually seen him play before Chelsea bought him and thought it was a real steal basically buying Nantes best player for peanuts.

 

I'm sure this was posted but:

http://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2015/a-gffn100-profile-papy-djilobodji/

 

As a result of Djilobodji’s fine defensive displays, underlined most suitably by Nantes’ extensive overachievements this season, which sees them sit joint third in the least goals conceded table as we head into to the Ligue 1 winter break. He has been the subject of intense, almost harassing levels of interest from Marseille who remain a big admirer of the Senegalese international’s talents.

 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/five-ligue-1-players-who-would-be-perfect-fit-premier-league#:S3mXIcwovPDrHA

 

Papy Djilobodji (Nantes)

Unable to sign any players last summer due to a transfer embargo, FC Nantes were predicted to struggle this season. However, a strong defence, led by Djilobodji, has seen Les Canaris concede an average of just one goal per game this campaign.

With the 25-year-old Senegalese centre-back currently at the Africa Cup of Nations, Nantes have lost their last two league games, showing the importance of Djilobodji’s physical presence.

He is quick along the ground, dominant in the air and usually positions himself well. Nantes’ full-backs have sometimes left him exposed, but put him in a stronger team and the physical nature of the Premier League could see him improve even further.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2255156-top-30-most-underrated-footballers-playing-in-europe/page/14

Allan Jiang writes: "Nantes' Senegalese centre-back Papy Djilobodji, 25, is an impressive defender. He is a safe tackler (0.8 fouls per game) and reads play excellently to intercept 2.9 passes per game."

 

All in all Papy deserves none of the ridicule or downsizing Chelsea fans have been giving him. He may not be given a chance, but honestly I would prefer him to Cahill, Zouma, Ivanovic and (ageing) Terry. A truely great purchase that was wasted.

Edited November 18, 201510 yr by Jon Stakes

Drogba was 24 when he came to Chelsea and it was off the back of a season where he absolutely dominated Ligue 1 and Europe, he scored 32 goals in 55 games.

It's incomparable to the indifferent season Papy joined us off the back of.

 

He was 26, so you see, they're basically the same player.

2 years.

And sometimes people just can't see what is staring them in the face. Djilobodji is highly rated by quite a lot of French pundits. Stats also prove he's pretty darn good in his position. The real difference between a lot of 'top players' and 'not good enough players' is actually being given a chance.

If he was that highly rated in France why didn't any French clubs stump up the whopping £2.7m transfer fee?