With players like Mata and Luiz Chelsea got really good money for them, hopefully we can do the same for Oscar. I would take Mata over Oscar any day of the week, you only need one runner in your team and that's Willian, we need some creativity in the team like a Mata brings.

I was gutted about Luis, quality LB never given a chance by Mourinho, he would be the answer now if only given a chance. Was also disappointed with KDB, played well first game then never got another chance. Don't take long for Mourinho to take a dislike, as much as I love the bloke and stick up for him I do think this is his downfall. Salah, Moses, Lukaku's futures where decided with not much football. Look at Bertrand now, probably England's best LB in my opinion.

 

Luiz I can't complain. Great money.

 

Mata, no no no. Decent money but he was our best player for two years and got the best out of Hazard. Those two were a joy to watch.

 

Luis was unfortunate because Dave never got injured.

We need an overhaul don't we? That's what I'm reading from the masses on this forum so im just going along with it. I don't think we are a bad side,I just blame Jose for this slump which we will no doubt recover from.

You're deluded if you don't think we need a squad overhaul of some sort. It should be staring you in the face that our current squad carries too much deadwood and consists of too many egos more eager on their next pay rather than succeeding with the club.

 

Even those who thought Jose deserved to be sacked in December acknowledge this.

As Guus has said we are going through a transitional period,it happens to all clubs at sometime.We are not in disarray ffs.

Luiz I can't complain. Great money.

 

Mata, no no no. Decent money but he was our best player for two years and got the best out of Hazard. Those two were a joy to watch.

 

Luis was unfortunate because Dave never got injured.

Luis never got a chance, better LB than Dave.

Luiz I can't complain. Great money.

 

Mata, no no no. Decent money but he was our best player for two years and got the best out of Hazard. Those two were a joy to watch.

 

Luis was unfortunate because Dave never got injured.

 

Our best player when we finished 6th and 3rd and then Hazard becomes the best player in the league the year after he left. 

 

That's not to say he isn't a great player, but I think you sacrifice so much when you have him in your team that isn't made up for in what he brings to it.

 

As Guus has said we are going through a transitional period,it happens to all clubs at sometime.We are not in disarray ffs.

 

Ok, so what are we transitioning to and who is leading the design of that? Last time we were in transition was after Carlo left and we were trying to be a much more expansive, team. How did that work out for us? In the end we went back to Jose after AVB failed, Robbie failed and Pep turned us down. 

 

Was that a successful transition?

 

Even then we had mainstays of the team who knew exactly what this club was about. I know you feel everything is find and you're saying 'Don't Panic' which is commendable but who is leading this transition and what are we transitioning to because if we don't know that then we're in more than disarray.

You're deluded if you don't think we need a squad overhaul of some sort. It should be staring you in the face that our current squad carries too much deadwood and consists of too many egos more eager on their next pay rather than succeeding with the club.

 

Even those who thought Jose deserved to be sacked in December acknowledge this.

Depends on what you want to achieve with an overhaul. If you want top 4 next season, all we need is the right manager to get these players back on form. If you want domination to start in 2-3 years then maybe we do.

 

But by saying we need an overhaul, shows that Jose only built a side for short term gain.

Our best player when we finished 6th and 3rd and then Hazard becomes the best player in the league the year after he left. 

 

That's not to say he isn't a great player, but I think you sacrifice so much when you have him in your team that isn't made up for in what he brings to it.

 

We finished 6th and 3rd not because Mata was our best player in a free role, so those league positions are irrelevant imo. We had far bigger problems e.g Torres not scoring.

Depends on what you want to achieve with an overhaul. If you want top 4 next season, all we need is the right manager to get these players back on form. If you want domination to start in 2-3 years then maybe we do.

 

But by saying we need an overhaul, shows that Jose only built a side for short term gain.

Every manager builds a team for the short term

Depends on what you want to achieve with an overhaul. If you want top 4 next season, all we need is the right manager to get these players back on form. If you want domination to start in 2-3 years then maybe we do.

 

But by saying we need an overhaul, shows that Jose only built a side for short term gain.

 

Jose built a team to win last year. In the summer wasn't he supposed to build on that or was he failed by the board? If that's the case then how on Earth can you judge what his plan was?

 

Put it like this, if you hire someone to build a house and you give them the money to build the foundations, maybe the bottom floor but then stop supporting them, what happens? The house is open to the elements, it becomes decrepit and starts to rot. In the end you're left with nothing but a shell and sometimes you have to knock it all down and build again.

 

The people you are entrusting to lead us through a transition are the same people you trusted after Carlo left, the same people you trusted last summer....at what point do you say that maybe it isn't the world-class coaches who are the problem but maybe the people hiring them and failing them?

 

If Guus leaves at the end of the season then there's a gap between him going and Conte being hired of about 6 weeks. At that point in time the most senior person at this club on the footballing side is Michael Emenalo. 

 

That is Chelsea in 2016.

Every manager builds a team for the short term

Yes they do but they also build for long term continuity. This wasn't the case under Jose, unlike the first time where he and Ranieri built a squad for years to come. Same with City now. Kompany, Kun, Silva, Yaya have put them in a postion where they never needed a massive overhaul.

Every manager builds a team for the short term

 

You have to at this club. Ask Carlo, AVB, Scolari, Robbie or Jose.

 

This club doesn't have the patience to stick with anyone so you have to build a team that wins immediately. Again, that's Roman.

 

We finished 6th and 3rd not because Mata was our best player in a free role, so those league positions are irrelevant imo. We had far bigger problems e.g Torres not scoring.

 

True, but that isn't an argument that says he's good enough to build a team around. I like the guy, but we were a better team after he left. 

Yes they do but they also build for long term continuity. This wasn't the case under Jose, unlike the first time where he and Ranieri built a squad for years to come. Same with City now. Kompany, Kun, Silva, Yaya have put them in a postion where they never needed a massive overhaul.

That was before all the sackings the majority of those players joined Chelsea. That's the point, those players was there before, after Jose's sacking no one had built for the future because they don't get the chance. Poor results = sacked.

What you mean? If I was City I would only move on Toure.

Edited March 10, 201610 yr by Ernie_blue

Jose built a team to win last year. In the summer wasn't he supposed to build on that or was he failed by the board? If that's the case then how on Earth can you judge what his plan was?

 

Put it like this, if you hire someone to build a house and you give them the money to build the foundations, maybe the bottom floor but then stop supporting them, what happens? The house is open to the elements, it becomes decrepit and starts to rot. In the end you're left with nothing but a shell and sometimes you have to knock it all down and build again.

 

The people you are entrusting to lead us through a transition are the same people you trusted after Carlo left, the same people you trusted last summer....at what point do you say that maybe it isn't the world-class coaches who are the problem but maybe the people hiring them and failing them?

 

If Guus leaves at the end of the season then there's a gap between him going and Conte being hired of about 6 weeks. At that point in time the most senior person at this club on the footballing side is Michael Emenalo. 

 

That is Chelsea in 2016.

If you can't build on it at least maintain it. Jose got angry and decided to knock it down.

 

The funny thing is we haven't changed our board style since Roman first arrived. Emanalo wasn't here during our first 3-4 sackings. What that suggests is that Roman calls the shots and chooses people he trusts and agree with him. He is the key decision maker. If you have a problem, take it up with him and stop scapegoating Emanalo as if hes the most influencial person at the club and only board member.

Yes they do but they also build for long term continuity. This wasn't the case under Jose, unlike the first time where he and Ranieri built a squad for years to come. Same with City now. Kompany, Kun, Silva, Yaya have put them in a postion where they never needed a massive overhaul.

 

Yet they bought De Bruyne because he can one day become Silva's replacement, and they will target Pogba as Yaya's replacement, and maybe even Stones as Kompany's if the rumours are true.

 

That's because they know exactly the style of football they want to play and they've known it for years. The stuck with Pellegrini because they knew long-term they wanted Pep and they wanted continuity. 

 

We wanted Pep, we built for Pep and when we didn't get him we hired Jose. Now I was happy with that but in terms of long-term strategic planning it's absolutely stupid and in the corporate world the CEO's head would roll if they had our results.

 

But Roman is untouchable, unaccountable....and unavailable for comment. He bears zero responsibility to the fans and that's handy because he doesn't really seem to exhibit any. We are absolutely subject to his whim in danger of becoming nothing more than his plaything. 

You have to at this club. Ask Carlo, AVB, Scolari, Robbie or Jose.

 

This club doesn't have the patience to stick with anyone so you have to build a team that wins immediately. Again, that's Roman.

 

Look lets be honest.

 

Carlo - Harsh sacking

AVB - Fell out with the squad (no one called JT, Lamps and Drogs rats) and we were outside the top 4.

Scolari - Out of his depth. Didn't have a clue at club management

RDM - Harsh sacking

Jose - Harsh sacking in 2007 but this season he deserved it and that can't be denied.

No manager in this day and age can build long-term here because they fear the repercussions that so many managers before us have faced. Roman and his yes-men created this culture of short-termism and years of masking these problems has finally come back to haunt us.

 

Roman and the board have never actually properly rebuilt and only made tweaks here and there to support the spine of the squad, but the spine is gone now and they have nothing to replace it with in the immediate future.

 

I'd be happy to be proven wrong if they can properly rebuild but their actions recently suggest otherwise.

If you can't build on it at least maintain it. Jose got angry and decided to knock it down.

 

The funny thing is we haven't changed our board style since Roman first arrived. Emanalo wasn't here during our first 3-4 sackings. What that suggests is that Roman calls the shots and chooses people he trusts and agree with him. He is the key decision maker. If you have a problem, take it up with him and stop scapegoating Emanalo as if hes the most influencial person at the club and only board member.

 

No, before him we had the guy who brought him to the club - Avram Grant - who was brought in two months before Jose was sacked. Then we tried to get Grant back in after he left as coach.

 

You use the word scapegoating but are you happy with Emenalo as the senior footballing presence at this club (he isn't actually a member of the board).

 

And again, the title of this thread ends with 'and that's down to Roman'. I have no problem criticising him when he deserves it. He isn't Chelsea, he's just the custodian and when he treats the club irreverently then he deserves calling out on it.

You have to at this club. Ask Carlo, AVB, Scolari, Robbie or Jose.

This club doesn't have the patience to stick with anyone so you have to build a team that wins immediately. Again, that's Roman.

True, but that isn't an argument that says he's good enough to build a team around. I like the guy, but we were a better team after he left.

Please how many years did Tata use as Barcelona's coach, or perhaps LVG as Bayern's coach. Model clubs, aren't they?

Yet they bought De Bruyne because he can one day become Silva's replacement, and they will target Pogba as Yaya's replacement, and maybe even Stones as Kompany's if the rumours are true.

 

That's because they know exactly the style of football they want to play and they've known it for years. The stuck with Pellegrini because they knew long-term they wanted Pep and they wanted continuity. 

 

We wanted Pep, we built for Pep and when we didn't get him we hired Jose. Now I was happy with that but in terms of long-term strategic planning it's absolutely stupid and in the corporate world the CEO's head would roll if they had our results.

 

But Roman is untouchable, unaccountable....and unavailable for comment. He bears zero responsibility to the fans and that's handy because he doesn't really seem to exhibit any. We are absolutely subject to his whim in danger of becoming nothing more than his plaything. 

Whats continuity if they haven't had a manager last more than 3 years? Plus they haven't really been successful compared to us in relative terms of investment. The only credit I give them is they buy players who can score and create. We have sold 3 of them under Jose stewardship in return for duds.

 

How isit his plaything? Can you not see his passion at games? Hes not like the Glazers etc. You see how quiet he is so to see Jose drag our name through the mud with excuses and the doctor fiasco is just too much for a man to take. Especially when we are playing turgid football and losing every week.

The biggest problem that caused our downfall was FFP.  The club had to find a way to be both self sustainable and successful, so we started buying up youngsters with potential 'in bulk', and loan them out with a view to sell them at a good price down the line. It did work to a certain extent, but for every Lukaku and KDB there are dozens of youngsters that never amount to sh*t and they cost a fortune in fees and wages when you calculate all of them. The board insisted on "sell to buy" system so we couldn't afford to have a deep squad anymore. 

 

In the meantime, the likes of City and our most recent opponents PSG wiped their arses with the FFP and kept spending like it's going out of style. United always had money due to successfully monetizing their brand and the rest of the PL have got stronger by spending the new TV deal money. On top of it, Mourinho's personal issues and his inability to build a long term project combined with the loss of form of a number of players turned a tough situation into an impossible one. Back in the day, we had a quality backup for every position on the pitch and it kept everyone on their toes and at their best. Nowadays, if Costa gets fat or decides to spend more time bitching at the ref than actually trying to score, we've got no one to replace him with. Hazard after last season apparently decided he's made it and doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. Oscar finally got he long deserved preseason break, but it turned out it wasn't fatigue that made him look average. Only God knows what has happened Matic. There's only a handful of players (Willian, Azpi, Zouma) that actually performed as expected, most of the rest had a season to forget.

 

The question is, can we spend a lot of money and still remain within the FFP guidelines? Do we walk away from the 'buying up youngsters for loan purposes' model or stick with it? And last, but not least, how can we manage to attract the top talent without CL football?

Whats continuity if they haven't had a manager last more than 3 years? Plus they haven't really been successful compared to us in relative terms of investment. The only credit I give them is they buy players who can score and create. We have sold 3 of them under Jose stewardship in return for duds.

 

 

Because they, like Barca, have realised that coaches might not last more than 3 years but the club has to. Ergo the philosophy of the club has to reside elsewhere, in the DNA of the club. That is what City are building towards, right from their academy onwards in an attempt to copy La Masia.

 

They're hiring a coach who embodies what they want to play.

 

We spent years building towards a team Guardiola could coach and when he said no, we went in the opposite direction. That's what I say when the club has no soul. It's simply a reflection of whatever the owner is enamoured with at the time.

 

 

How isit his plaything? Can you not see his passion at games? Hes not like the Glazers etc. You see how quiet he is so to see Jose drag our name through the mud with excuses and the doctor fiasco is just too much for a man to take. Especially when we are playing turgid football and losing every week.

 

Because he doesn't treat it with respect. He hires mates, not people with proven track records of success. He doesn't commit to anything long-term, he doesn't treat the fans (especially the CPO) with respect and throwing money at the club or getting excited at matches (it's not that hard, most of us have been doing it for years) isn't enough to absolve him of his failings.

Our best player when we finished 6th and 3rd and then Hazard becomes the best player in the league the year after he left.

That's not to say he isn't a great player, but I think you sacrifice so much when you have him in your team that isn't made up for in what he brings to it.

Ok, so what are we transitioning to and who is leading the design of that? Last time we were in transition was after Carlo left and we were trying to be a much more expansive, team. How did that work out for us? In the end we went back to Jose after AVB failed, Robbie failed and Pep turned us down.

Was that a successful transition?

Even then we had mainstays of the team who knew exactly what this club was about. I know you feel everything is find and you're saying 'Don't Panic' which is commendable but who is leading this transition and what are we transitioning to because if we don't know that then we're in more than disarray.

Erm, last time we were in transition was in 2013/2014. Recall Jose's "little horse" analogy and the amount of times he stressed it. What happened after that season?. Surely most don't this particular lesson in history.

The biggest problem that caused our downfall was FFP.  

 

Absolutely agree. There wasn't a sustainable system in place because sustainable systems aren't built over night. They take time, patience and commitment to a singular goal. Look at Ajax or Barcelona, success built on underlying principles and a firm belief in a particular idea of football.

 

We don't have that at the moment. We don't have 'The Chelsea Way' in this club's DNA. If you asked a fan to describe what The Chelsea Way was, you wouldn't get an answer like you would from Arsenal fans or United fans and the easy thing to say is that we've won more than them. But growing up we were a glamour club who had grit to them. For every hardman like Chopper, Wisey or JT there was the grace of Zola, Robben or Cooke.

 

We've forgotten who we were in a race to become a poor facsimile of Barcelona to appease the owner.

 

I hope he had a great view of what his club has become because I did.

Because they, like Barca, have realised that coaches might not last more than 3 years but the club has to. Ergo the philosophy of the club has to reside elsewhere, in the DNA of the club. That is what City are building towards, right from their academy onwards in an attempt to copy La Masia.

 

They're hiring a coach who embodies what they want to play.

 

We spent years building towards a team Guardiola could coach and when he said no, we went in the opposite direction. That's what I say when the club has no soul. It's simply a reflection of whatever the owner is enamoured with at the time.

 

 

Because he doesn't treat it with respect. He hires mates, not people with proven track records of success. He doesn't commit to anything long-term, he doesn't treat the fans (especially the CPO) with respect and throwing money at the club or getting excited at matches (it's not that hard, most of us have been doing it for years) isn't enough to absolve him of his failings.

When you try and copy Barcelona, you always fall short. City have got no outstanding youth players at present for them to even try and attempy copying Barca.

 

How can you say he treats it with no respect? He's hiring people he believes are good enough. We are more supported than City all over the globe and are more successful. Look where they are this season. Better still they have never won the league with a game to spare and have been poor in Europe. Their stability and continuity isn't exactly producing the best results.

 

I could understand your point if Roman was using the club to make money but its the opposite. He's helped this club so much and without him we woulnd't have the success we've had.

 

Other than Barca, what clubs actually make consistent right calls at board level that put ours to shame???????

Edited March 10, 201610 yr by KonaKai Blue

Squad overhaul? Leicester and spurs have, on paper, lesser squads and they're leading the prem. We don't need an overhaul just a couple upgrades in certain positions. Also, even though we mock them, arsenal have always made top four consistently for many years with less spending then any of us, city or utd.

Edited March 10, 201610 yr by enigma