Here's a point for you.

Steve Mclarens original plan for tomorrow night's game vs Andorra was to use two wide players, and sling balls towards the lanky Pete Crouch. (Very technical, i know).

Since Crouch is injured, we have no suitable replacement to do the same job.

Rooney is undoubtedly a superb player, but not in the best of form, and whilst Owen is crocked, to me it has never been clearer how much we are currently suffering from a real lack of quality international forwards.

Defoe? Very hit and miss. Bent? Never really given a proper crack of the whip, but is he REALLY good enough? Somehow i doubt it. And Andy Johnson, (For whom i had hopes for) well as much as he works hard, and COULD do the business, he has'nt really convinced either has he?

Can you believe that ENGLAND, are nearly relying on an uncapped Championship player to get us to the big European stage? Remember the Walcott fiasco?

It seems incredible. 40 years ago we had a handful of top class forwards. All of which were capable of sticking it away.

What has gone so wrong?

To me, the tendancy for Premiership clubs to buy foreign strikers as opposed to sticking faith in your own is having a very adverse effect, almost to the point where we are now relying on the lower leagues to come up with the next Lineker, Owen, Shearer, Greaves or hell, even Steve Bull!

Whats going on!

There is no denying that we have a shortage of quality strikers, and especially quality finishers. However it is also true that recent managers have failed miserably to try and find any alternatives by giving other players a decent run. The likes of Defoe and Johnson have never been given a decent run to prove themselves (remember Johnson on the right wing?) and then the likes of Bent and Ashton have never even been tried properly.

Which is what led us going into the last World Cup ridiculously short of strikers (and boy didn't we pay a heavy price for it)

You can't blame a manager for the quality of player available to him - he is dealt a hand and has to deal with it the best he can - however you can blame a manager for failing to make the most of the players available and that is what Sven and now Mclaren are doing.

There is no denying that we have a shortage of quality strikers, and especially quality finishers. However it is also true that recent managers have failed miserably to try and find any alternatives by giving other players a decent run. The likes of Defoe and Johnson have never been given a decent run to prove themselves (remember Johnson on the right wing?) and then the likes of Bent and Ashton have never even been tried properly.

Which is what led us going into the last World Cup ridiculously short of strikers (and boy didn't we pay a heavy price for it)

You can't blame a manager for the quality of player available to him - he is dealt a hand and has to deal with it the best he can - however you can blame a manager for failing to make the most of the players available and that is what Sven and now Mclaren are doing.

It's true that none have been given a decent run, but it makes you question why? Especially as Mclaren and others must see them in training? Are they simply not good enough?

To be fair, SM must have been astonished to find himself having to pick Nugent. It's a dire situation. Can you imagine the likes of France, Germany, Holland having to 'dip' into the lower leagues? Not a cats chance in hell!

I agree that losing Ashton to injury was a shame. He could have been very useful. I hope he sticks with AJ, and i think he could do well for us, however Defoe blows too hot and cold for me.

Unfortunately most of my mates are y*ddos, and even they share the same doubts.

I agree about Defoe being too hit and miss and ina best case scenario he wouldn't be anywhere near the first team or the squad however we have to make the best of what we have and therefore the manager has to make sure these guys get some playing time so that they can fill in when required.

Our last two managers have been appalling when it comes to picking players for their position rather than picking players and then deciding on where they will play. Against Israel it was a joke with a right winger on the left hand side, a centre half at right back, a right back/def midfielder at left back and a hockey player as the holding midfielder. Hoewever it wasn't just against Israel, England have been doing it for years now.

Hockey player? I think you are being generous there!

On the whole Loz, Chelsea are representing England well, (although we have pretty much poached all of our England Internationals) but to a certain extent Loz, can clubs like Chelsea accept some of the blame surrounding forwards, when we are spending ludicrous amounts on 30 year olds? Realistically, will Sinclair ever get his chance with us, for example?

Well clubs don't have an obligation to the international team however obviously it would be nice if we did develop the next Gary Lineker - but this is unlikely to happen as long as the internal transfer market is so ridiculous. Any half decent English striker is being priced out of the market so that clubs with the money are nearly always going to look elsewhere. OK we overpaid for Sheva but I wouldn't use that as the general rule. if you look at the transfer fee of the likes of RVN, Crespo, Berbatov, even Kuyt - if they were English players playing within England then their respective clubs would have paid a shed load more for them.

The international managers also have to take more of a responsibility for looking at players who play for the less fashionable clubs as this is where you are now finding a lot of the English players plying their trade.

Just a general point about lack of domestic talent. If you took out all the foreign talent in the Premiership and just relied on UK-born players - as was the case until say 20-25 years ago - how crap would the standard be?

Has this influx of forign talent raised the standard of the lower divisions, which must now be full of the calibre of player who once made it to the top of the British game but now find their roles filled by foreign players? Or has the dominance of foreigners actually stifled the development of home-grown talent, by discouraging players from aiming for the top because there are fewer opprtunities for British players?

Anyone got a spare two or three years to study for a masters thesis erxploring these issues?

Just a general point about lack of domestic talent. If you took out all the foreign talent in the Premiership and just relied on UK-born players - as was the case until say 20-25 years ago - how crap would the standard be?

Has this influx of forign talent raised the standard of the lower divisions, which must now be full of the calibre of player who once made it to the top of the British game but now find their roles filled by foreign players? Or has the dominance of foreigners actually stifled the development of home-grown talent, by discouraging players from aiming for the top because there are fewer opprtunities for British players?

Anyone got a spare two or three years to study for a masters thesis erxploring these issues?

Not me, Loz? One for you possibly?

(...) if you look at the transfer fee of the likes of RVN, Crespo, Berbatov, even Kuyt - if they were English players playing within England then their respective clubs would have paid a shed load more for them.

Off course. Spot on. They would've costed the double.

Berbatov was what ? 10, 11 million ?

How much would - for instance - Bent (any of them) cost ? Last season was rumoured around 19 Million ?

FFS !

Van Nist - ?19m

Crespo - ?16.8m

Berbatov ?10.9m.

English players cost double?

Something doesnt quite add up here....

An English player of that calibre playing in England and transferring within England would cost double.

Look at Rooney's price tag and he is not on a par with RVN or Crespo

An English player of that calibre playing in England and transferring within England would cost double.

Look at Rooney's price tag and he is not on a par with RVN or Crespo

?30m is alot of money, however the whole deal was done on installments? Rooney is a special talent, and at the time, was 18/19 years old?

Surely money can't be the excuse if you are United or Chelsea?! Even the shirtburners are bound to fall into a few quid now!

To me there seems to be a world shortage of top strikers, if you look at the premiership most goals with a few exceptions (Drogba, Rooney, McCarthy excluded) seem to be coming from midfield. I was talking to a Liverpool fan just after we sold Bellamy to them and he reckoned they had got a bargain due to the lack of strikers about these days. Whilst i don't agree that he was a bargain he does have a point.

heh- slipped in mccarthy nicely there!

and to think some people want owen out- IMO he is the most undervalued player in out national squad. even more than vassel! (hi baron, post more- we're missing you! )

elliot, west ham had a bid of... was it ?18m rejected by charlton... if he was dutch, he would plainly cost half of that or less.

to be fair i only put McCarthy in that list because he's in the top 5 premiership scorers, had it been Henry or someone else rather than McCarthy I wouldn't have included him. i'm not a delusional about my club, i know what we are and what we are not

ha- didn't expect such a serious answer.

I'm surprised he's done as well as he has... you are perfectly entitled to put him in there. also, f*ck henry. viva mccarthy. he doesn't "go down like a woman".

oh yes, the last time owen was fit for england he scored 2 late goals as we beat argentina. he'll come back, and regardless of how quick he is, he'll score goals. his game hasn't been just pace for years now. he's a shorter crespo... great movement. I think people look back on his goal in 98 aged 18 and his hatrick in germany aged 21 and forget that he's done more... he's scored and been a success wherever he's gone.

Owen is incredibly injury prone, and has lost his pace. He's also a diving little sh*t. I don't like him, and don't rate him.

Just my personal opinion of course......

It'll be interesting to see if Dean Ashton hits form when he returns, he looked very promising before his injury. Nugent looks good too, I'm surprised a Premiership club hasn't snapped him up before now.

Nugent looks good too, I'm surprised a Premiership club hasn't snapped him up before now.

everton put in a 6m bid for him, preston turned that down as they found the amount too low.

Owen is incredibly injury prone, and has lost his pace. He's also a diving little sh*t. I don't like him, and don't rate him.

Just my personal opinion of course......

How very dare you!

The wee scamp is the only bloke for us who can actually score!

All this old-codgery longing for Owen, the fatally injured yesterday's man! It makes me and Bluebeard longing for the good old days of 60's and 70's music and standing on the Shed wiv our stanley knives at the ready seem positively modern!

Give it up on Owen people. Time to move on. Only frontman for Engerland is ...................

Scott Sinclair

Kev

PS - I also agree with BB - Owen is a diving little sh*t, and IMO was always vastly over-rated - I said that on the old CSR when there was talk of us buying the little scroat

All this old-codgery longing for Owen, the fatally injured yesterday's man! It makes me and Bluebeard longing for the good old days of 60's and 70's music and standing on the Shed wiv our stanley knives at the ready seem positively modern!

Give it up on Owen people. Time to move on. Only frontman for Engerland is ...................

Scott Sinclair

Kev

PS - I also agree with BB - Owen is a diving little sh*t, and IMO was always vastly over-rated - I said that on the old CSR when there was talk of us buying the little scroat

I can't believe what i'm hearing!

STOP!

MAKE IT GO AWAY!

Must find a happy place..