On 01/08/2019 at 06:55, Dixons said:

 

In South Africa we have the EFF party, who's longterm aim is to rid the country of whites. 

.

 

Are you confused or? Can’t make up your mind if you’re  English or South African? 

50 minutes ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

Are you confused or? Can’t make up your mind if you’re  English or South African? 

Ok, so i chose the incorrect word.  The fact is, over there, at onetime whitie' was indeed the "bad man" and i 100% supported Mandela and the sporting and cultural boycotts, which played a big role in ending aparthied. Things needed to change and they did.  Sadly, an unfortunate number of black South Africans are turning into what Mandela was fighting against - Racists!  The ANC long being corrupt and massively incompetent, is now starting to look like it's going down the Mugabe road of anti white policies. So, now, being open minded to change opnions and sides,  i see the ANC and sections of the black population as being in the wrong. Ironicaly, the one hope for that country is the new party formed from the  old racist Nationalist party, which is getting more and more support from the well educated and  middle class blacks.  If that makes me racist in your eyes, then so be it. 

Edited August 13, 20196 yr by Dixons

1 hour ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

So why did you say here is South Africa? I’m sure you don’t go “paki bashing” or openly say stuff but people who feel this superiority over immigrants and rant on about it when push comes to shove let’s be honest.....if it wasn’t so PC now you would have plenty to say 

Holy sh*t! Show me where i have said i think i'm "superior" or anti-immigration. If you mean completely uncontrolled, unlimited immigration, then defo yes!  Sensible, fair, controlled immigration is what most people (including minoriies already here) want to see. Crikey, even Farrage and Trump want that!   I like living in a country with peoples from all around the world. So much more interesting than living somewhere like Japan. 

Edited August 13, 20196 yr by Dixons

23 hours ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

The part that people conveniently leave out is their countries are f**ked and war torn because Europeans have been destabilising and colonising them for centuries to take their resources now America just start fights to sell weapons, so people want to benefit from that economically and not have the fall out? 

Yes immigrants cause problems as do natives it’s just less highlighted, yes some immigrants should be kicked out for abusing their host countries and yes some of them are uneducated and uncivilised that’s what happens when you come from war torn countries.

 There are plenty of uneducated uncivilised white men in our country who have never known war or real hardship imagine bombing some scouse estate scroats for 15 years killing their relatives removing any form of joy or security from their lives then send them to some peaceful soft country somewhere where the people look just like the ones bombing them and killing their families and say off you go play nice lads, what could go wrong? 

To be fair you have to have perspective not sit in a high chair in a safe country where you have everything provided for you even if you can’t be arsed working and shake your head at look down your nose at people that don’t meet your expectations.

The problem is far more complex and starts with western foreign policy, there was a time Europeans living in the dark ages traveled to the Middle East for education, there’s a lot of ignorance and lack of understanding it’s all too easy to point fingers, guys like Farage and Trump know this and use it to their benefit as do sh*thole outlets like the daily mail. 

Simple scratch the surface answers to complex deep rooted problems, got problems? There’s an immigrant it’s his fault...sorted 

I don't disagree about corporates stealthily taking resources out of third world countries yet is has happened to us too yet some time ago, tin mines in Cornwall in Roman times, Vikings taking slaves, St.Patrick was kidnapped from Bristol by Irish raiders. Why isn't the UN talking about this?

Statistically over 1000 years later we still have a Norman influence that stands out, make of that what you will.

In recent times Kurds fighting with Turks, criminals from Eastern Europe in Drugs gangs, sheep rustling, stealing metals from railways and churches, stealing washing from garden washing lines.

Irish travellers - mainly doing crime.

Acid attacks and blood feuds for me it all adds up to why we need stronger controls.

Re the white underclass a certain proportion would have been undercut by the brightest from Eastern Europe just doing menial jobs on money that was better than they could earn at home.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I don't disagree about corporates stealthily taking resources out of third world countries yet is has happened to us too yet some time ago, tin mines in Cornwall in Roman times, Vikings taking slaves, St.Patrick was kidnapped from Bristol by Irish raiders. Why isn't the UN talking about this?

Statistically over 1000 years later we still have a Norman influence that stands out, make of that what you will.

In recent times Kurds fighting with Turks, criminals from Eastern Europe in Drugs gangs, sheep rustling, stealing metals from railways and churches, stealing washing from garden washing lines.

Irish travellers - mainly doing crime.

Acid attacks and blood feuds for me it all adds up to why we need stronger controls.

Re the white underclass a certain proportion would have been undercut by the brightest from Eastern Europe just doing menial jobs on money that was better than they could earn at home.

 

 

I get both sides of the coin, who wants criminals coming here abusing our hospitality they can f**k off if they can’t behave, then there is the cause and effect of how the western world has prospered at others suffering.

I think immigrants have to be taken on a case to case basis, and I also don’t think we should suffer because they want to abuse the place, it’s very easy to point fingers but far more rational to look at things on a case to case basis and at the bigger picture. 

 

21 minutes ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

I get both sides of the coin, who wants criminals coming here abusing our hospitality they can f**k off if they can’t behave, then there is the cause and effect of how the western world has prospered at others suffering.

I think immigrants have to be taken on a case to case basis, and I also don’t think we should suffer because they want to abuse the place, it’s very easy to point fingers but far more rational to look at things on a case to case basis and at the bigger picture. 

 

I'm glad you recognise there are two sides to the immigration debate.

When we say the Western World has prospered I agree it has yet has not done evenly it has created instead large imbalances within the Western world.

Even China today has elites and other Chinese workers in factories jumping out of windows because of harsh conditions to the extent they put nets up to stop suicides.

Insatiable greed seems to be a certainty as spoken in Animal Farm, 'not all pigs are equal'.

12 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I'm glad you recognise there are two sides to the immigration debate.

When we say the Western World has prospered I agree it has yet has not done evenly it has created instead large imbalances within the Western world.

Even China today has elites and other Chinese workers in factories jumping out of windows because of harsh conditions to the extent they put nets up to stop suicides.

Insatiable greed seems to be a certainty as spoken in Animal Farm, 'not all pigs are equal'.

Of course it hasn’t prospered evenly if you’re not involved in weapon sales or oil or the financial market you have to actually work for a living 

51 minutes ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

Of course it hasn’t prospered evenly if you’re not involved in weapon sales or oil or the financial market you have to actually work for a living 

Another is being born into wealth too.

3 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

Another is being born into wealth too.

Well yea they tend to keep that money in the families, I think there is a lot of frustration from the white working class, it’s tough and instead of the government taking responsibility some c**t comes a long and says oh it’s not us it’s  all these immigrants, it’s diversion tactics. 

Mall you need is sh*t papers like the daily mail publishing their bollox and it takes hold, that’s why rich people buy newspapers, it’s not to make money off the papers it’s because if you have influence over people by the information you give them important people want to do you favours to get their narrative across in your paper, dirty old game. 

I just don't understand how can someone be so contradicting to himself.

If you are a fan of Chelsea you accept the players. The majority of them are not domestic and come in all forms and colors. If you are a fan you accept the owner that isn't local either and is jewish.

So how can someone be a racist and a fan at the same time, how can someone ignore so many obvious contradictory ideals? Some people in this world need to look themselves in the mirror and use their brain more.

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I just don't understand how can someone be so contradicting to himself.

If you are a fan of Chelsea you accept the players. The majority of them are not domestic and come in all forms and colors. If you are a fan you accept the owner that isn't local either and is jewish.

So how can someone be a racist and a fan at the same time, how can someone ignore so many obvious contradictory ideals? Some people in this world need to look themselves in the mirror and use their brain more.

This is why this racist Chelsea fan stigma is bollox there was a time that only cech lamps and Terry were white in our team, or you telling me we have fans that don’t like drogs? 

Last time I saw overt racists that were racist just to be racist was in the 90’s when you go to the outskirts of London, past Watford or Essex, those kind of places, now 90 percent of white Londoners under 50 are so used to living and working with different ethnicities it’s just not an issue, if anything when I was in school it wasn’t cool to be white it was out of fashion. 

Even if I dont choose to mix with certain cultures it’s because if just that I’m not into their cultures even then it’s not a race thing, it just makes for a good story. 

9 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I just don't understand how can someone be so contradicting to himself.

If you are a fan of Chelsea you accept the players. The majority of them are not domestic and come in all forms and colors. If you are a fan you accept the owner that isn't local either and is jewish.

So how can someone be a racist and a fan at the same time, how can someone ignore so many obvious contradictory ideals? Some people in this world need to look themselves in the mirror and use their brain more.

You're probably too young to have seen Paul Canoville then?

At the height of the era when Chelsea did indeed have a large racist following, he suffered racist abuse from our own fans.

It was so bad, Paul went on to say he'd have quit the club if it wasn't for the support from players and the manager. I remember the then Tory  MP David Mellor  being so disgusted and outraged by the abuse, he stopped going to Chelsea games and watched Fulham instead. 

But, back then, it was often quite clear to see who was racist and who was not. There was no branding people racist because soneone had a scowl on their face when shouting at a player during a game, and MP's weren't branded a Nazi for being part of a pressure group that simply wanted  to leave the EU.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Dixons said:

MP David Mellor  being so disgusted and outraged by the abuse, he stopped going to Chelsea games and watched Fulham instead. 

He said that doesn't mean it's true. Mellor used to write for the Fulham programme in the 80's his Chelsea credentials are very iffy.

30 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

He said that doesn't mean it's true. Mellor used to write for the Fulham programme in the 80's his Chelsea credentials are very iffy.

He never hid the fact that he watched both clubs, so why would he lie about something like that?  I know i found it uncomfortable standing next to fans giving Nazi salutes and making monkey noises. And lets not forget our atttendances were falling and falling as the fans reputation grew worse and worse.  Also, it''s not that uncommon for football fans to watch more than one team. In his younger days Bruce Forsyth watched Arsenal and Spurs. My dad watched Charlton and Palace.

43 minutes ago, Dixons said:

In his younger days Bruce Forsyth watched Arsenal and Spurs.

What did he say when the match was over good game good game. Mellor is not a Chelsea fan no one who says I'm supporting another team just because I don't like what's going on and then when things get a little bit more sedate and middle class comes back is beyond contempt.

I was there for all the racist incidents including the Palace Canoville game I doubt Mellor was by the way. I stuck with Chelsea because they're my club I wouldn't dream of supporting someone else. If I felt strongly enough doesn't matter if it was when I was 15 or now mid 50's about anything to do with Chelsea that would be me done with football end of.

8 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

What did he say when the match was over good game good game. Mellor is not a Chelsea fan no one who says I'm supporting another team just because I don't like what's going on and then when things get a little bit more sedate and middle class comes back is beyond contempt.

I was there for all the racist incidents including the Palace Canoville game I doubt Mellor was by the way. I stuck with Chelsea because they're my club I wouldn't dream of supporting someone else. If I felt strongly enough doesn't matter if it was when I was 15 or now mid 50's about anything to do with Chelsea that would be me done with football end of.

Not everyone is a hardcore fan who will put up with anything and everything to watch their team.

Were you at the away game at  West Brom, the week the news broke about Princess Michael's family having Nazi connections? I was there and it was an utterly disgusting, shameful sight to see literally thousands of Chelsea fans standing up giving Nazi salutes while singing there's only one Princess Michael.I  do not blame anyone for stopping watching us back then.

As you know, many, many thousands of fans stopped going with attendance's even dipping below 10,000. They came flooding back when Rudd took over as manager and the racists went away. Do you hold in contempt all those thousands of fans who left and then returned when  things got "nicer" again at the bridge?

And Mellor was there for Canoville's debut. He recalled his disgust at watching what he thought were just a normal family sitting next to him, , turn into vicious, hate filled racists spewing racists insults as Conoville walked onto the pitch.

 

33 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Not everyone is a hardcore fan who will put up with anything and everything to watch their team.

Were you at the away game at  West Brom, the week the news broke about Princess Michael's family having Nazi connections? I was there and it was an utterly disgusting, shameful sight to see literally thousands of Chelsea fans standing up giving Nazi salutes while singing there's only one Princess Michael.I  do not blame anyone for stopping watching us back then.

As you know, many, many thousands of fans stopped going with attendance's even dipping below 10,000. They came flooding back when Rudd took over as manager and the racists went away. Do you hold in contempt all those thousands of fans who left and then returned when  things got "nicer" again at the bridge?

And Mellor was there for Canoville's debut. He recalled his disgust at watching what he thought were just a normal family sitting next to him, , turn into vicious, hate filled racists spewing racists insults as Conoville walked onto the pitch.

 

http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2002/november/27/black-amp-white-eye

Paul Canoville's debut was away at Palace in 1982 Mellor wasn't there and he certainly wouldn't have been sitting next to a family of Chelsea fans at Selhurst Park.

Edited August 14, 20196 yr by bluehaze

4 hours ago, Dixons said:

You're probably too young to have seen Paul Canoville then?

At the height of the era when Chelsea did indeed have a large racist following, he suffered racist abuse from our own fans.

It was so bad, Paul went on to say he'd have quit the club if it wasn't for the support from players and the manager. I remember the then Tory  MP David Mellor  being so disgusted and outraged by the abuse, he stopped going to Chelsea games and watched Fulham instead. 

But, back then, it was often quite clear to see who was racist and who was not. There was no branding people racist because soneone had a scowl on their face when shouting at a player during a game, and MP's weren't branded a Nazi for being part of a pressure group that simply wanted  to leave the EU.

 

 

We totally did have a fan base like that and I was about when the NF used to sell bulldog magazine outside the Bridge but this is a different time and era a lot of those people were only racist because it was a fad they have most likely grown out of it and I have seen personal examples, the ones that still exist are so far from being accepted they have to keep their toxic sh*t well hidden.

The point is the dynamic of our fan base has changed so much that the stigma should be removed and we shouldn’t have to exaggerate  and overcompensate to prove it

15 hours ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

Well yea they tend to keep that money in the families, I think there is a lot of frustration from the white working class, it’s tough and instead of the government taking responsibility some c**t comes a long and says oh it’s not us it’s  all these immigrants, it’s diversion tactics. 

Mall you need is sh*t papers like the daily mail publishing their bollox and it takes hold, that’s why rich people buy newspapers, it’s not to make money off the papers it’s because if you have influence over people by the information you give them important people want to do you favours to get their narrative across in your paper, dirty old game. 

I think if you look objectively at the papers they cater for different markets and then you have the layer of foreign ownership these days too which adds I think a more compliant layer that will not want to upset the establishment in case they are forced to leave. I have a physic ability and notice the press office steps in to stop stories being published. I recall a political debate about Islamic terrorism and a couple of years ago it was over 400 incidents in one year. We never get that amount of coverage in the tabloids so I suggest the establishment are concerned about the possible political backlash.

1 hour ago, bluehaze said:

http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2002/november/27/black-amp-white-eye

Paul Canoville's debut was away at Palace in 1982 Mellor wasn't there and he certainly wouldn't have been sitting next to a family of Chelsea fans at Selhurst Park.

Mellor was in the east stand, so he was obviously talking about the home debut.

11 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Mellor was in the east stand, so he was obviously talking about the home debut.

Absolute bollocks Canoville didn't play against Palace in 82-83. The booing of Paul Canoville was against Palace away 1982 and the following away game against Blackburn which wasn't as bad and was the last away game of the season.  Black players didn't get openly booed after that although Keith Jones and Dublin were giving a bit of a hard time but that wasn't because they were black just they weren't very good.  Don't believe what Fulham supporting Tory mp's say mate.

3 hours ago, bluehaze said:

Absolute bollocks Canoville didn't play against Palace in 82-83. The booing of Paul Canoville was against Palace away 1982 and the following away game against Blackburn which wasn't as bad and was the last away game of the season.  Black players didn't get openly booed after that although Keith Jones and Dublin were giving a bit of a hard time but that wasn't because they were black just they weren't very good.  Don't believe what Fulham supporting Tory mp's say mate.

"Canoville didn't play against Palace in 82/83 but was booed at the away game to Palace in 82"???

And where did I even say Mellor said it was against Palace?

I heard this many years ago when Mellor was doing his BBC radio phone-in show. Forgive me for not remembering the exact words someone said from two decades ago, but I can 100% recall him talking about him being in the east stand when the abuse of Canoville happened. In the context of what happened, does it really matter if it was a debut?  

5 hours ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

We totally did have a fan base like that and I was about when the NF used to sell bulldog magazine outside the Bridge but this is a different time and era a lot of those people were only racist because it was a fad they have most likely grown out of it and I have seen personal examples, the ones that still exist are so far from being accepted they have to keep their toxic sh*t well hidden.

The point is the dynamic of our fan base has changed so much that the stigma should be removed and we shouldn’t have to exaggerate  and overcompensate to prove it

Probably true that most have grown out of it, but our bunch of racists were a bit different from the average lot of "packi bashing" thugs that were around back then.

As you eluded to, there was also a political element to what was going on. Along with support for the NF, there was that link with the extremists in Northern Ireland. I suspect a number of them still hold those views today, but are smart enough to know they can't bring it to football matches these days.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Dixons said:

"Canoville didn't play against Palace in 82/83 but was booed at the away game to Palace in 82"???

And where did I even say Mellor said it was against Palace?

I heard this many years ago when Mellor was doing his BBC radio phone-in show. Forgive me for not remembering the exact words someone said from two decades ago, but I can 100% recall him talking about him being in the east stand when the abuse of Canoville happened. In the context of what happened, does it really matter if it was a debut?  

Palace away was 81-82 where Canoville got booed. You then said it was his home debut this did not happen Canoville was never booed at the Bridge. When we played Palace at home in 82-83 Canoville didn't play. Again don't believe what a Fulham supporting Tory says he didn't go to Chelsea then as that link proves he was a regular at Fulham. Who do you believe a Chelsea fan who was there or an MP who clearly wasn't.

2 hours ago, bluehaze said:

Palace away was 81-82 where Canoville got booed. You then said it was his home debut this did not happen Canoville was never booed at the Bridge. When we played Palace at home in 82-83 Canoville didn't play. Again don't believe what a Fulham supporting Tory says he didn't go to Chelsea then as that link proves he was a regular at Fulham. Who do you believe a Chelsea fan who was there or an MP who clearly wasn't.

I was in the Shed to see Canoville come on as a sub for his home debut. He was subjected to horrific booing and racial abuse. It was an utter disgrace and I was ashamed and shocked at what the kid had to put up with.

It was the condemnation by Bates, John Neal and Pat Nevin that eventually saw the abuse stop during the 83-84 season. I was there when he scored a hattrick at home to Swansea a few months into that season, and the fans gave him a fantastic ovation. I've never heard any of our players get racially abused by our own fans since.