how about a fun quiz regarding our football...

[g3.7]

this should put our football into perspective... it's a question I've been asking recently because the answer tells you why so many are discouraged by our style of play.

so here it is:

When was the last time chelsea played attractive football (in both halves) for 3 games in a row... make that 2 games in a row?

my answer? well... way back when robben and duff were in the side for the first time. it's been that long since we could say "we are playing good football". the worst part is, it was luck- drogba, jose's first choice, was injured, and duff and robben had gotten into the side, forcing a 433 with guddy up front. you had movement up front, running from deep from frank, and high pressing from smertin or tiago. eidur would drop deep and involve himself in the passing, and would release the wide players as lampard ran beyond him. since then there has never been an attacking set up as well thought or planned, we've seen ballack shoehorned into a position that should go to a player considered a "third striker" not a "fourth midfielder", we've had the horror of last season- drogba up front with essien and makelele in the same side, giving up huge workrate but little spark and we've had a top class striker shoehorned into a role where he is 50% of the time wide and 50% of the time chasing the ball like a muppet.... but the football has deteriorated. jose stumbled upon good football (and surprise! our most emphatic results), and lost it.

this season it's been long balls. we're a side that doesn't function in attack- its got great organisation in defense but in attack we wait for the opponent to make a mistake rather than opening them up, we rely on individual bits of magic (drogba has bailed us out with wonder strikers- take those away and where would we be? and essien also), that's why robben gets so much criticism, because he is forced to go it alone, there is rarely the support behind him or the movement up front. it is the same for other players in the side- the long ball is wasting the talents of a pool of attacking midfielders that would be envied by almost any side in the world.

don't get me wrong, I will be eternally grateful to jose mourinho, eternally grateful. I didn't think I would ever see chelsea win a title, let alone two... but a point has come where you realise that you get more enjoyment from reading out the records he has acheived, the titles he has won than the actual spectacle- something is wrong when the stats are more enjoyable than the football itself.

[mad_mac]

This is also the first season where it really has been "Jose's" team. In that there were no left overs that he had to deal with, and most of the team are made up of his signings. The decisions and guess work for who our new manager will be starts here

Scott

[Pauly]

good post g4- those string of 4-0 wins were really the first and last months where we used that 4-5-1/4-3-3 as an attacking system in my view too.. and the main attempts by JM to move to those strategies you've mentioned has been the dominant line since then

[Joel]

Great post G4, you and others have pretty much covered it all in other threads. I just finished watching on Tivo and had the premonition all the while of how it would turn out.

It's uncomfortable watching the club you love play like that. We walked around like zombies for the first 20 minutes. From then on it was an advertisement for the ultimate in anti-football. Soak up pressure, hoof forward, almost like we were hoping we would catch Agger or Carragher slipping on a wet spot and allowing Drogba in.

On the defensive side of the ball we are often a marvel to watch, and I for one have tipped my cap to JM for drilling the ethic into everyone. But somewhere in all that the freedom of expression with the ball at one's feet--"the beautiful game"--has largely disappeared. What I wouldn't give to see the ball zipping back and forth across the park, players moving fluidly off the ball and leading the kind of sweeping moves forward that make you salivate. Would we win as much that way, I have no idea. I'm not trying to set up a choice between "play stylishly with less success" and "grind/bore your way to CL semifinals".

We have some incredibly talented players at the club...but has this system beaten the brilliance out of them? Can it be recovered? If JM stays, is he going to change anything? So many questions for the summer. Part of me wants him to stay, but part of me fears he's stubbornly wedded to the stark, brutal, machine-like football we've developed.

[Pauly]

Thought of the day : generally a quiz has more than one question.

[g3.7]

who said I was finished?

second question:

If a 3 year old had an unlimited transfer and wage budget, and set out to play a 442 diamond, would he or she be able to create a squad that fits that idea?

jose planned to use a diamond, yet goes into the season with only one orthodox rightback, a defensive one at that, and, criminally, he went into the season with no trequartista, no-one to play at the top of the diamond despite that position being the key to the entire system. instead he overloaded with central midfielders and curiously retained 4 players most suited to playing wide in midfield, when usually his sides have had room for one at maximum. he has shown that he wasn't even aware about this key defiency when he stated that shevchenko was playing in the same system as he did with milan, and thus should have no issue with form (forgetting that milan have kaka, and genuine width on both sides from their fullbacks). but the horror of the squad doesn't end there, no he replaced 2 central defenders with one, who he eventually lost so much trust in that he preferred two different central midfielders over him. and finally, it is generally accepted that if you are planning on playing 2 up front, you should have (at least) 4 strikers in the squad. mourinho instead, took on shevchenko (signed while carrying an injury) and drogba (who has had injuries in the past under the management of mourinho)- it could have been a lot worse.

I think for a top club not to be able to get a squad that fits the system(s) you want to play with round pegs in round holes would be an example of poor transfer negotiation, but for a club where there are no financial constraints, there can be no excuse.

[Pauly]

generally participants get candy at the end of the quiz

[Liam]

Thought of the day : generally a quiz has more than one question.

and the one question isn't usually followed by the definitive answer.

I'm eternally grateful also - to Abramovich and the players his money has bought.

Mourniho can f**k off and take his brutal football and his nasty persona with him.

[Pauly]

not being a brilliant tactical coach and doing the most with the media and psychology that he can to take his team to success doesn't make him a c*nt.

[Lofty]

Thought of the day : generally a quiz has more than one question.

and the one question isn't usually followed by the definitive answer.

I'm eternally grateful also - to Abramovich and the players his money has bought.

Mourniho can F*** off and take his brutal football and his nasty persona with him.

Until this evening, I never once thought I'd find myself agreeing with a statement like that. It's been Jose all the way. Trust Jose, he knows what he's doing. It's all part of his master plan. Now I feel he's been found out. And it's all bollox. Who's fault is it that we're not in this season's Champion's League Final? Jose Mourinho and his appallingly ineffective tactics that in successive weeks have seen us fail to beat a poor Newcastle side, an out of form Bolton side, and a not exactly brilliant Liverpool side.

Fun and Jose don't exactly go together, do they.

[Taipan]

Can I add my own question?

Why is it that we have had so many good second strikers under Jose, but we've never seemed to get anything much from them? Gudjohnsen, Crespo and Shevchenko are really top quality players, and then there was Kezman and Kalou as well. Yet not one of them has settled in and really looked the attacking threat they were before playing under Jose. Is that the players fault, or the managers?

[Liam]

Can I add my own question?

Why is it that we have had so many good second strikers under Jose, but we've never seemed to get anything much from them?

Because Drogba.

[canbeas]

What I wouldn't give to see the ball zipping back and forth across the park, players moving fluidly off the ball and leading the kind of sweeping moves forward that make you salivate. Would we win as much that way, I have no idea. I'm not trying to set up a choice between "play stylishly with less success" and "grind/bore your way to CL semifinals".

you can play both attacking football and have success. barcelona, last year for an example. man utd, this year.

there's a big difference in the two semi final ties this year. man utd and milan both attacked during their game, both teams coming back from a lead to score two goals...always wanting to get the win. while liverpool and chelsea squeezed out their 1-0 wins.

[canbeas]

Can I add my own question?

Why is it that we have had so many good second strikers under Jose, but we've never seemed to get anything much from them? Gudjohnsen, Crespo and Shevchenko are really top quality players, and then there was Kezman and Kalou as well. Yet not one of them has settled in and really looked the attacking threat they were before playing under Jose. Is that the players fault, or the managers?

guddy did really well in the 04/05 season...and he did that in an lone striker role and attacking midfielder role, who are not his natural positions. and i thought crespo was excellent last season.

[abramovich]

G4 somewhere in your quiz there should be a place for the question about the often talked about Chelsea depth.

It's been mentioned to death and especially by Jose of all people that we had trouble with injuries to key players this season. It's all well and good but isn't it what separates truly top class manager from the rest that he could deal with whatever hand he's dealt in the best possible manner and still get results? We were relatively lucky in terms of injuries in our first two seasons, but this year it became almost an obsession for Mourinho to blame everything on loss of Terry and Cech.

Any team would miss players of that magnitude but when it came to proving our depth in terms of quality, it turned out we've had no replacements to bring. Playing Diarra at RB when we have got two rightbacks polishing the bench, playing Essien as a centerhalf with Boulahrouz available - that stuff doesn't make any sense to me. This is Jose's third year at the club, these are his signings, he can't turn around and say these are not the players i'd chosen given the chance.

The ironical part about it is that Chelsea in their first year under Mourinho had their best season. Now, three seasons later, we seem to have regressed.

[Taipan]

Can I add my own question?

Why is it that we have had so many good second strikers under Jose, but we've never seemed to get anything much from them? Gudjohnsen, Crespo and Shevchenko are really top quality players, and then there was Kezman and Kalou as well. Yet not one of them has settled in and really looked the attacking threat they were before playing under Jose. Is that the players fault, or the managers?

guddy did really well in the 04/05 season...and he did that in an lone striker role and attacking midfielder role, who are not his natural positions. and i thought crespo was excellent last season.

Indeed Gudjohnsen did play very well then. As G4 said in the opening post, that was the last time we played consistently good football. But then, Guddy wasn't playing as a support striker to Drogba. He was the sole striker with Drogba out injured. As soon as Drogba was available, Guddy was relegated to the bench and later converted to a midfielder.

Out of interest, I looked up that period of time. link It was for 8 weeks in 2004, from October 20 to 26 December. We played 16, won 12, drew 3 and lost 1 (the 'dead' game away at Porto). We scored 36 goals, and on six occasions we scored 4 in a game while conceeding 9.

[youlots]

Christ, here we go again with all the Jose "recriminations".

Leaving aside today (which I'll agree wasn't one of Jose's finest matches in terms of the timing of the subs) I still don't understand what is it that some of you want. Sounds to me as if you want Ranieri back again. No f**k that why not just lobby for our beloved owner to buy Wenger so that we can play "the beautiful game".

Leaving aside the obvious pain of losing 2 CL semis in 2 years (by a ghost goal or by penalties), in that time we've won 2 titles and the odd cup (x2) & still have the chance of winning at Wembley in a few weeks. That's a hell of a lot better than any other time in our history. And if we win our 3 remaining games in the PL we'll finish on 89 points. 89 points for godsakes!!! How many other titles have been won by a total of 89 points or more?!? How many by 85 or more ?1? The point is that some you are so f**kin ungrateful and the implicit criticism is that we should be more like Manure (who are having an incredible year and incredible luck if the game against the toffees is used as a yardstick) in our style of play. Bollocks.

Cups are Cups - and they're no measure of a team. If a manager gets your team to 2 semis of the CL in 3 years (where it could have gone either way) that, imo, is about as good as you can honestly hope the manager can do - especially in a world cup year and regardless of how much an oligarch owner has spent (even of some players that have been a joke and which the manager didn't want).

So, the issue is, if you don't want Jose who do you want? Say it.

[Sofa Manager]

Yes, say it:

If Mourinho leaves this summer...

[yogic]

I like quiz' ...

Q- Why did Jose buy Boula?

Q- Jose said we needed another striker, if we had bought one, would he too be warming the bench like Boula?

Q- What happened to Jose' rotation policy?

Benetiz must be laughing at Jose right now, he played calm, didnt get into the mind games, sat cross legged on the pitch and watched his team win, then took his glass' off, put them in the case, said job's done and went home to his pilsburry pie.

[Loud and Proud]

Mourniho can F*** off and take his brutal football and his nasty persona with him.

Just one of the quotes in this thread that make me feel sick. Everyone calling for Jose's head when we're in the fa cup final, 2nd in the league pushing for our 3rd consecutive title, made it to our 3rd CL semi-final in 4 years, having gone to Valencia, silenced the crowd and outplayed them for 90 mins, and having won the carling cup.

After all Jose has done for us. F***ing shocking!

And i'm sure Jose would say, "CSR members you can f**k off and take you stupid opinions views with you you ungrateful c**ts

[Lady Diehard]

Mourniho can F*** off and take his brutal football and his nasty persona with him.

Just one of the quotes in this thread that make me feel sick. Everyone calling for Jose's head when we're in the fa cup final, 2nd in the league pushing for our 3rd consecutive title, made it to our 3rd CL semi-final in 4 years, having gone to Valencia, silenced the crowd and outplayed them for 90 mins, and having won the carling cup.

After all Jose has done for us. F***ing shocking!

And i'm sure Jose would say, "CSR members you can f**k off and take you stupid opinions views with you you ungrateful c**ts

Hear, hear! It's amazing how all the euphoria of winning our first league title in 50 years has now paled into insignificance for some people. I am as gutted as everyone else regarding last night's result, and we could have played better - but that's life. But to jump all over Jose because this season isn't going quite as well as planned is just not fair. I've supported Chelsea for 37 years and can honestly say that Jose Mourinho is the best manager we have ever had. And if we do go on to win the precious FA cup that so many supporters on here revere, will we still be calling for his head then?

[bjd]

dont know what to think anymore. Some peoples posts are way over the top but also i think we do have genuine reason to question Jose.

I love Jose - the guy is a legend, a chelsea legend. He has done so much for us.

But its all becoming very frustrating. The senseless rants, the tactics , the football.

I wouldnt feel so bad if i felt like he had learned something from 2 years ago, but we havent moved on at all.

I dont know anymore, i really dont. It couldve and shouldve all been so different last night.

[Kev123]

Look I don't blame many Chelsea supporters for being willing to sacrifice free-flowing attacking football in order to win. You can point to us in the past, playing beautiful football but never winning sh*te. Or Arsenal this year. But what I don't agree with is that when someone voices discontent over how the team is playing, and calls for a change of management, they are accused of being ungrateful or in some way less of a true supporter.

I love Chelsea, for better or worse, Premiership or Conference, and cried just like the rest of you when we won the league the first time almost 3 years ago. But I believe we have a right to expect far more of our team then we have seen. We have one of the most expensive and star studded teams ever assembled, but we battle out 1-0 wins and as supporters we are exepected to like it because we win trophies. In all honesty I'm beginning to long for the days when we DIDN'T win sh*te, but we played beautiful football and I could walk away from the game feeling either on top of the world or utterly devastated.

[Butch]

I don't think ANYONE should be shot down for their opinions. It is ALL opinions.

Emotions are running high after the rather disappointing loss in a tournament where we ALL believed was time for us to win. Everyone has their own reasons for wanting to win it, some actually not wanting to lose to Liverpool just as bad as wanting to win. But no matter what reasons you may have for feeling disappointed and angry, I believe they are all valid insofar as they are your own opinions.

So I believe we should all exercise a little patience and understanding for our fellow fans. We're all in the same boat afterall!

Cheers,

Butch

[Liam]

Just one of the quotes in this thread that make me feel sick. Everyone calling for Jose's head when we're in the fa cup final, 2nd in the league pushing for our 3rd consecutive title, made it to our 3rd CL semi-final in 4 years, having gone to Valencia, silenced the crowd and outplayed them for 90 mins, and having won the carling cup.

After all Jose has done for us. F***ing shocking!

And i'm sure Jose would say, "CSR members you can f**k off and take you stupid opinions views with you you ungrateful c**ts

To be fair Loud and Proud I don't think too many people are calling for his head just me.

Sorry if I annoyed you and any other Mourinho fans out there. I don't like him and never have. I didn't want him to get the job and I was saying that at the time and I've said it ever since.

I would put our success down to to The Players, Abramovich's Money, and Mourinho in that order. You would obviously have a different order. That's fine.

I am no less passionate than you or no less a fan than you because I don't like the manager. Managers come and go I just hope that the next one has a bit more class, and a love of the game of football, rather than just success for the sake of it.