oh how sweet it is...tactical genius exposed

[The Brit]

LIVERSCUM LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE

Truly shocking peformance from both sides...milan horrendous but get two goals...pool were slightly better but way too negative...the fat one showed up as nowhere near the special one....brings on second striker with 13 minutes to go...criminal when losing against an old, tired milan side there for the taking...liverscum fans quiet for long periods too to expose the myth...

[The Brit]

the sad thing is you just know in tomorrow's press, just a few days after we were slammed after winning a trophy, they will be getting: heartbreak for unlucky scousers...robbed by ref...jammy milan etc

[g3.7]

benitez did well to start with... but zenden? really? in a champions league final?

also, mascherano should have stayed on... but other than that you can't fault him. I also liked despite sky's desperate attempt to get a story he said the 20 seconds "were not a reason (for the loss"). gerrard or alonso should have picked up kaka... kuyt doesn't look like a regular starter at a top club. but given their side liverpool did quite well. milan under par, but their attacking quality told. enjoyed andy gray going on about milan having nothing up front when talking about pippo inzaghi.

delighted about the result, but benitez did well and be fair, shook everyone's hands after the game.

souness and redknapp!

[Guest]

Zenden G4 IN A CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL, I give you Mr.H.Kewell a complete waste of space,you are one down in a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL and you introduce Harry f**king Kewell.

[abramovich]

Milan were shocking for most of the match, but it's sort of poetic justice that scousers lost the CL Final to the team that has played even worse football than them.

[g3.7]

Zenden G4 IN A CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL, I give you Mr.H.Kewell a complete waste of space,you are one down in a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL and you introduce Harry f*****g Kewell.

I highly rate kewell's ability to spend the entire football season drinking cocktails under the sun somewhere, only to make a miraculous return to fitness in time for the champions league final.

he's done it twice now. expect him to be ruled out until the next world cup. genuis.

[loz]

I urge none of you to read the papers tomorrow or listento phone ins like TalkSport as it will be full of crap about how courageous Liverpool were and how they deserved to win over the night.

Answer me these questions

1. Were the commentators tripping over themselves to point out the total lack of quality on show tonight?

2. If Liverpool were ripping Milan apart as Andy Gray would have us believe how was it that Dida only actually had to make two saves (Gerrard and Crouch) up until the point Liverpool scored.

3. If they even try and moan about the ref then answe me this one - how onside was Kaka when he was put through on goal?

4. If they decide to point out how well Liverpool did to keep Kaka, Pirlo and Seedorf quiet (which they did) then why was it they still failed to beat a team with its most creative forces subdued?

Either that or you can just put your thumbs to the side of your heads, waggle your fingers, stick your tongues out and go

'Nah nah nah nah nah' in a mocking fashion

I heard rumours of clashes between Liverpool fans and riot police outside the stadium - any news of this?

[Alan]

Was footage of clashes on ITV News, 91 arrests apparently.

[Backbiter]

More than rumours, loz. They tried to force their way into the ground - it was on the ITV news. 90-odd arrests made, plus fighting in the city at the end of the game. Obvioulsy the same tactics they tried at the Bridge.

Unbelievably the ITN reporter said that, given the demand for tickets and the importance of the game this was 'bound to happen'. She didn't add 'given Liverpool fans' track record'.

[Guest]

Does the result tonite mean Lofty gets back.

[loz]

Now I know you are making this up Backbiter.

Repeat after me:

Liverpool fans are the greatest in the world

There are none better

It was Chelsea fans in Liverpool tops

It was Everton fans, Liverpool fans would have been inside watching the game

[loz]

Just like to say that I have now heard conflicting stories about the trouble outside the stadium.

Both of them say fans tried to rush the gates and neither of them deny wrongdoing on the part of the Liverpool fans however one says it was all fans without tickets whereas another said the trouble started because police wouldn't let in a number of fans who did have tickets.

Either way the idea of rushing the gates brings about some pretty unpleasant images of Hillsborough. Something tells me this will be swept under the Liverpool history carpet.

[Backbiter]

I tuned in for the pleasure of hearing Green and the deluded Scousers on 6-0-6 tonight. I'm glad I did, because less than 10 minutes in Green was criticising the tactical genius's team selection, and the following slipped out:

I don't think we got the best out of Gerrard tonight

For years callers have accused him live on air of being a Liverpool fan and blatantly biased towards them. Tonight he finally owns up, inadvertently. I suggest you all tune into the podcast which should be available from the BBC 5 Live site. You can switch off after 10 minutes, although you'll enjoy the whingeing.

[The Brit]

benitez did well to start with... but zenden? really? in a champions league final?

also, mascherano should have stayed on... but other than that you can't fault him. I also liked despite sky's desperate attempt to get a story he said the 20 seconds "were not a reason (for the loss"). gerrard or alonso should have picked up kaka... kuyt doesn't look like a regular starter at a top club. but given their side liverpool did quite well. milan under par, but their attacking quality told. enjoyed andy gray going on about milan having nothing up front when talking about pippo inzaghi.

delighted about the result, but benitez did well and be fair, shook everyone's hands after the game.

souness and redknapp!

yes benitez was able to stop milan from playing but what about pool scoring...basically he employed the same tactics as he did against us...4-5-1, harry their defence and anchor midfielders so to starve them of possession and look for the counter...it worked to a limited degree. their only chances came from milan mistakes but this time they didn't go ahead and once trailing had very few ideas...if benitez was such a tactcial genius, why leave your top goalscorer on the bench until 13 mins to go...truly shocking...he got lucky two years ago when milan bottled it over a six minute spell, tonight his luck ran out...the only thing that stops me laughing too much is that Chelsea could have taken milan apart tonight...they were woeful

[TomP]

I thought Benitez lost it the moment that he subbed Crouch on for Mascherano - that was just asking Kaka and Inzaghi to do exactly what they did.

The obvious move (which should have been made at least 10 minutes earlier) was to move Gerrard to the right, and bring on Crouch for Pennant.

[g3.7]

I wouldn't criticise his tactics too much tonight, as I said... IMO he got them right...

but I would criticise his choice to buy gonzales and pennant (both may come good- particularly gonzales given it's his first season), and he took zenden, and signed 4 strikers, none of which he seems to have total confidence in... crouch is a good player as say the third or fourth choice, bellamy... a similar sitation, fowler forget it, and kuyt... seems decent but not really a threat.

I think he's good tactically, in certain circumstances better than jose to be honest...

but his achilles heel has been buying the lead strker- the one to score... he had that problem at valencia too... he had carew, but like crouch is only decent as an "option"... he never had a top striker. mista scored a lot of goals for one season, but that was a one off that he stumbled on. if he wants to really compete for the league he will need to improve the quality of his attacking players. if he gets the money the media are suggesting in the summer there should be no excuse for him or liverpool.

[just]

but benitez did well and be fair, shook everyone's hands after the game.

Is that another wind up ?

[The Brit]

I wouldn't criticise his tactics too much tonight, as I said... IMO he got them right...

but I would criticise his choice to buy gonzales and pennant (both may come good- particularly gonzales given it's his first season), and he took zenden, and signed 4 strikers, none of which he seems to have total confidence in... crouch is a good player as say the third or fourth choice, bellamy... a similar sitation, fowler forget it, and kuyt... seems decent but not really a threat.

I think he's good tactically, in certain circumstances better than jose to be honest...

but his achilles heel has been buying the lead strker- the one to score... he had that problem at valencia too... he had carew, but like crouch is only decent as an "option"... he never had a top striker. mista scored a lot of goals for one season, but that was a one off that he stumbled on. if he wants to really compete for the league he will need to improve the quality of his attacking players. if he gets the money the media are suggesting in the summer there should be no excuse for him or liverpool.

obviously i don't agree...if you're losing a game you don't stick with the same formation till 13 mins to go and leave top scorer on the bench...how many chances did pool actually create tonight? the few they had came from milan giving the ball away..if chelsea lost like that jose would have copped it on here from some people, how can you say benitez got it right...milan were there for the taking and he never went for it

[The Moos]

I have to say that Benitez tactics weren't great. He made mistakes against Chelsea that almost cost him a place in the final and he also made some errors tonight.

First of all, when you're down one goal and don't create too many scoring chances I think you should act sooner rather than later. Bringing on Crouch with only ten minutes or so left is too late.

And leaving Bellamy on the bench is a mistake too.

Zenden is in my oppinion not a very good player. I haven't seen him play one good game this season (though to be fair I haven't seen many games with Pool). Surely Pool has someone else to use as a winger?

I know alot of Pool fans are now moaning about how they controlled the game and should've won it. What utter rubbish!

Liverpool might have played well but they didn't create many scoring chances. I read that they had like 14 shots and 10 of them went wide (some well wide). Did they actually create one really good chance except for the one when they scored?

Milan didn't create much either, but they scored on the few chances they had. To me that is more important than controlling the game for 90 minutes.

[The Brit]

what about benitez's genius sub near the end, finnan off arbeloa on...that will win you a european cup

[The Moos]

what about benitez's genius sub near the end, finnan off arbeloa on...that will win you a european cup

Oh, yes. It's called defensive offense. It's a way of...you know...tricking your opponents...sort of...

[g3.7]

but benitez did well and be fair, shook everyone's hands after the game.

Is that another wind up ?

if you want to be wound up by it, go ahead. I thought he did show some class after the game- note, he doesn't always. as for "another", which were the others again?

obviously i don't agree...if you're losing a game you don't stick with the same formation till 13 mins to go and leave top scorer on the bench...how many chances did pool actually create tonight? the few they had came from milan giving the ball away..if chelsea lost like that jose would have copped it on here from some people, how can you say benitez got it right...milan were there for the taking and he never went for it

I agree with some points there- subs were far far too late... kewell didn't work and crouch was too late. I like to see subs get 30 mins, with a minimum of 20... some players, most of them, take time to settle into a game coming the bench.

but I do think he got the system and style of play right- liverpool were relying on mistakes, but they came due to pressure from liverpool- a tactical call obviously- to press high and well into milan's half. that stopped them playing their natural game (slow tempo, short passing). it's not an ordinary milan side, they did take the champions of our league apart... but liverpool made them look relatively average despite having IMO poorer players. that's down to benitez.

as for not starting crouch, as just will tell you*, it's not all about the top scorer- kuyt seems more suited to a high pressing game than crouch, he covers a lot of ground. they played the way we did under jose for the first year or two under jose- high pressing, with athletic midfielders in the middle and wingers. again- the difference is that where we had robben duff and cole, they have zenden, pennant and kewell. weaker players.

*is this a wind up? I lose track.

[Sofa Manager]

I would do a couple (literally) of my great schematic cartoons if I just had the time !

The definition of offensive game plan according to "Rafa the paella master" :

PLAN A - Consists of 10 players passing the ball to Gerrard and Gerrard trying to shoot from everywhere. Basically one red spot with lots of arrows pointing towards him and then lots of arrows from that red spot directed to the goal (and normally ending on row Z).

AKA "Spot Gerrard ?"

PLAN B - (only to be used 3 minutes from the end when losing) Several players on the wings - represented by 4 up to 8 red dots - crossing like madmen (loooots and loooots of arrows) to one red stretched dot on the box.

AKA "Spot the freak ?"

Brilliant. The master tactician has done it again.

[just]

Zenden G4 IN A CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL, I give you Mr.H.Kewell a complete waste of space,you are one down in a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL and you introduce Harry f*****g Kewell.

Bluntly put, but I think a wholly warranted reply to a person who felt Benitez did well with his tactics and selection.

And as for the comment that Rafa got the style of play right, the phrase, "you're havin a laugh" springs to mind. When, in the last two/three seasons, have you seen them play any other way in a big game?

[youlots]

Benitez tactical errors:

1. Playing too high up the park which caused Gerrard a few problems;

2. Doing so without Crouch at the same time;

3. Directing that most balls go to Gerrard;

4. Subbing way too late.

But hey, he shook everyone's hands so at least he is a courteous master tactician.