Tevez or Shev

[Guest Brian M]

Just to kill another few hours until the season begins, and because I'm curious...

Tevez or Shev?

[Barn]

This one's a joke right? I didn't vote because I'll be amazed if anyone would really rather have Sheva (I hope he's better this year but he'll need to be loads better than last season to get near the first team) so I figured my vote wouldn't really mean much.

[loz]

I would rtaher have Sheva for the simple reaosn that I ams till to see a single person explain to me how on earth Tevez fits into a Jose team. if we are to play with wingers in this coming season then the team is far better suited to Sheva then it was last season. That doesn't guarantee that he will improve however it still means tevez would be redundant.

[Guest Brian M]

This one's a joke right?

No, a horse walks into the bar and the barman says: 'Hey, why the long face?'...that's a joke...

[midlandblue]

This one's a joke right?

No, a horse walks into the bar and the barman says: 'Hey, why the long face?'...that's a joke...

it used to be, a long long time ago

[Guest Brian M]

it used to be, a long long time ago

Funny thing, I was in getting measured for a funky new pinstriped Hugo Boss suit on the weekend, and cracked the 'inside leg' gag...and the gal measuring me up practically coughed up a lung laughing!

Her boss was standing behind the counter and just rolled his eyes at me and smiled, and said: "It's been a while since anyone trotted that one out in here. It's nice to see someone who appreciates some old-school humour!"

So you see, MLB...everything old is new again, given time! (so there's hope for us yet!!!)

[Scott]

Look for my poll soon.

Ballack

or

Essien

[barak81]

I went for tevez, lagely for the reason that last season when it seemed like a choice between the two i wanted tevez then.

Im actually going to stick a few pound on sheava to be EPL golden boot this season.... henry gone, and the odds will be good, never right sheva off (i hope)

but if i had to choose tevez every time, mostly because of the age thing, to see him working magic in a chelsea shirt for the next 8 seasons or so would be a dream and in answer to loz's question about where he would fit in, in a 4-3-3... take your pick... from what iv seen and heard he's pretty versitile, could play up frount on his own can do a job on the wing in an advanced role like in our 4-3-3, seemes to like to come in of the left wing for west ham a lot. or if your feeling really brave play him in midfield as the furtherst man forward like deco did for porto as he userd to play that role for boca

[Guest Brian M]

Ballack

or

Essien

or

Mik

or

Lamps

or

Sidwell

or

Maka

Which central midfielders do we use if we play 433...

[Blue Sun Tzu]

This one's a joke right?

No, a horse walks into the bar and the barman says: 'Hey, why the long face?'...that's a joke...

Moments later a dyslexic walks into a bra

[loz]

take your pick... from what iv seen and heard he's pretty versitile, could play up frount on his own

Tevez doesn't have the height to play up front on his own within our 4-3-3 formation. He would be muscled out of the game when cetnre halves are allowed to double up on him thus minimising the impact of having two wingers and also making us suffer because of the large gap bewteen our midfield and our lone striker.

can do a job on the wing in an advanced role like in our 4-3-3, seemes to like to come in of the left wing for west ham a lot.

We now have four orthdox wingers and Kalou who has been selected to play out wide on a fair few occasions - why do we need yet another player to fill that space on the pitch, especially when it isn't his natrual position.

or if your feeling really brave play him in midfield as the furtherst man forward like deco did for porto as he userd to play that role for boca

Well we are tralking about him fitting into the 4-3-3 formation that we play which pretty much means that he would play ahead of Lampard - I know who I would rather have in our midfield.

[barak81]

take your pick... from what iv seen and heard he's pretty versitile, could play up frount on his own

Tevez doesn't have the height to play up front on his own within our 4-3-3 formation. He would be muscled out of the game when cetnre halves are allowed to double up on him thus minimising the impact of having two wingers and also making us suffer because of the large gap bewteen our midfield and our lone striker.

Well no not if we'r hoofing it up the pitch to him but if we played it on the floor a little bit like we did against arse and when guddy used to play uprfrount he is more than capable!! strong player, with the ability to drop a little bit and play in the wingers who in that formation should be acting as second strikers or alternatvie feed of the supporting wingers and advancing center mids

can do a job on the wing in an advanced role like in our 4-3-3, seemes to like to come in of the left wing for west ham a lot.

We now have four orthdox wingers and Kalou who has been selected to play out wide on a fair few occasions - why do we need yet another player to fill that space on the pitch, especially when it isn't his natrual position.

Just an example that he could and would fit in, weather you deam him better than what we have there is a matter of oppinion, i personly think horses for corses

or if your feeling really brave play him in midfield as the furtherst man forward like deco did for porto as he userd to play that role for boca

Well we are tralking about him fitting into the 4-3-3 formation that we play which pretty much means that he would play ahead of Lampard - I know who I would rather have in our midfield.

same as the previouse point, he fits in, if needed.

Basicaly there are plenty of places in the system he can be accomadate

[Blue Sun Tzu]

I was in getting measured for a funky new pinstriped Hugo Boss suit on the weekend, and cracked the 'inside leg' gag...and the gal measuring me up practically coughed up a lung laughing!

You sure it wasn't a lung but a little bit of sick?! Hugo Boss eh? Blimely, sold a script...?

[Guest Brian M]

Blimely, sold a script...?

Read one?

[Blue Sun Tzu]

Not unless it has pictures

[Elliott]

I was in getting measured for a funky new pinstriped Hugo Boss suit on the weekend, and cracked the 'inside leg' gag..

Which is?

[g3.7]

sheva had a better season than tevez in terms of goals and assists. fact.

[Blue Sun Tzu]

This gag possibly...?

Brian M is being plagued by terrible headaches. One day, after years of suffering, he decides to see a migraine specialist. The doctor tells Brian to strip, inspects him all over, and announces that he?s found the cause of his problem. ?Your testicles are pressing against the base of your spine,? says the medic. ?The pressure builds up, and you get an excruciating headache.? Brian is appalled. ?Tell me, doctor, is there anything I can do about it?? he asks. ?I?m afraid I have bad news. The only answer is to get rid of the testicles,? says the doctor. Brian considers the pros and cons of a life without balls and sex ? but then he thinks about the agony of his daily headaches, and without too much difficulty decides to go for the snip. He comes round from the operation and leaves the hospital. Walking along the street, he smiles as he realizes that the pain has completely disappeared. To celebrate, he decides to treat himself to some new clothes, so he makes his way to a top tailor to get fitted. Inside the tailor?s, he asks to see a pair of trousers. The tailor looks at Brian and says, ?You?ll need a 36-inch waist, 33-inch inside leg.? Brian is amazed at the accuracy of the tailor?s eye, and asks for a shirt. ?That?ll be a 42-inch chest, 16-inch neck,? the tailor says, and Brian is once again stunned by his accuracy. Finally, all that is left is a pair of underpants. ?36?? guesses the tailor incorrectly. ?No, sorry, I?m a 34,? Brian says. ?I?ve worn a 34 since I was 18.? ?This is not possible,? frowns the tailor. ?If a man of your size wore a size 34, the pants would press his testicles into the base of his spine, causing the most horrific headaches.?

[yorkleyblue]

Oh children, children, children

I know there are weeks and weeks until the football starts, but please, just get a room if you want to carry on this "manly" flirting banter!

Jeez!

kev

[Dorset]

I would rtaher have Sheva for the simple reaosn that I ams till to see a single person explain to me how on earth Tevez fits into a Jose team. if we are to play with wingers in this coming season then the team is far better suited to Sheva then it was last season. That doesn't guarantee that he will improve however it still means tevez would be redundant.

This is an invitation I cannot refuse - it was an invitation, Loz, wasn?t it? - and I will start by echoing Barn?s implied words that, on what we?ve seen player for player in the Premiership, Tevez wins hands down on almost any comparison with Sheva, bar looks and G4?s extensive factual analysis. I know this doesn?t in itself mean he is a perfect fit for our team, but then neither was Sheva when he arrived, as evidenced by the accommodating switch to 4-4-2, and we didn?t see too many complaints as to suitability at the outset. However, two wrongs would not make a Tevez signing right, so here?s my (mainly) tactical justification for still wanting us to sign him, despite his excessive baggage?

1. Next season our predominantly 4-3-3 playing team will have Didier as its central striker whenever possible, so a player such as Sheva gets in as sub or is utilised down the flanks. The former situation sees him fighting for a place with both Pizarro and Kalou and in the latter, with four quality wingers in the squad, his chances are even more severely limited. Of course, Tevez would have the same competition to overcome, but would be more comfortable than Sheva in the wide role and, to date, has proved himself to be more effective in the Premiership in the central strikers role. Call it what you like, his commitment, feistiness, flair, all contribute to an overview that he is better suited to the Premiership and you have to admit that, when our 4-3-3 needs to be a 4-5-1, then he?d still be a right pain for defenders just as Didier is in any system.

2. There is a cavalier rumour going around that we might also be playing with a flat midfield four incorporating two wingers next season - hence the profusion of wide men and signing of Malouda - and if this proves to be correct the middle two will be an interesting choice, not only in themselves, but also in so far as the effect that choice would have on the selection of the front two. For instance, Essien and Lamps would put a lot of pressure on the Bison defensively, whereas Mikel and Essien would probably mean a shared workload. How nice it would be to have one of the two strikers linking the line of four by rolling his sleeves up and competing in any uneven midfield scrap when required to do so. I don?t need to draw a picture of the player I think would be more up to that task, do I?

3. If rumours of the diamond being dead turn out to be exaggerated it would be true to say that Sheva?s star would shine the brightest of the two, but just think how many other stars wouldn?t come out at all in that formation, as it would clearly be designed to cater for Essien, Mikel and Lamps plus one - take your pick out of Cole, Malouda, Robben, SWP or Kalou - at the tip. Suits you Sheva, but not many others, unless you believe that a second striker was a ?must have? accessory for Didier?s goals last season, in which case a player who could be utilised at the tip of the diamond or as an out and out striker would be very useful indeed. Hang on a minute, maybe I should revise even this acknowledgement of Sheva?s superiority.

4. Finally, no assessment of Tevez?s value would be complete without a reference to his attitude, which is pure Wisey in volatility and, if harnessed and channelled by someone like Jose, could become a driving force to match the Drog?s contribution, which will be sadly missed later in the season. I believe Fergie sees the same added bonus in this player and, with the likes of Neville and Scholes on their last legs, seeks to get him (on the cheap) if he can, even though he doesn?t really fit into their set up. In fact, I could accept Loz?s scepticism if it was directed at Tevez?s suitability for United?s team far more than I can when it is applied to Chelsea. Surely United?s need is for a Drogba or a Berbatov, but no, Fergie?s looked at what?s available and tried to do a deal, albeit dodgy, for a young player tailor made for the Premiership. Of course, I?m glad we weren?t involved with Joorabchian, but I?m also sad we haven?t gone for Tevez and I hereby rest my case.

[loz]

Dorset

Not just a run of the mill invite, this was an invite that provided a map to the venue, a suggested gift list, clear dress code, free drinks vouchers and bus fare home.

I acknowledge that Sheva has, on occasion, and with great foolishness on Jose?s part, been pushed out wide into a position which is as suited to him as I am to a leading part in a Jim Davidson biopic. However two wrongs, as you so rightly say, would not make a Tevez signing right. Tevez would be more comfortable than Sheva in a wide role but he would not be more comfortable in that role than a number of players already at our disposal. In relation to the extent to which he would be a pain when our 4-3-3 converts to a 4-5-1 I, unsurprisingly admit nothing! I don?t think he would be a pin when we convert to the 4-5-1 when possession is lost. Assuming you are talking him playing as the centre forward in then I fail to see how he would be a pain, he is too short and a little too blinkered to offer a pressure valve when we win possession back. He wouldn?t provide the outlet that relieves the pressure and draws other players into the game.

I would be as gobsmacked as a Los Angeles priest discovering his church was being sold to foot an out of court settlement if Jose opted for a flat 4 in midfield. However, for arguments sake, lets assume he does ? I don?t think there will be a problem in the centre as I think Essien would cope just fine with the defensive responsibility as he could run the hind legs off a donkey with a bad speed habit. However if we were to opt for such an approach then I don?t think we would need to over commit a striker to scrapping with the midfield. Lampard is not exactly a flair midfielder who roams forward and deserts his defensive responsibilities. If there was a common theme when Chelsea played both Drogba and Sheva it was that whichever of the two (normally Drogba) played in the more advanced role was perceived to have been the better player on the day. On the few times Sheva played in the leading role I would argue that he contributed a lot more than Drogba (and vice versa). However if you want a striker who can play the support role by linking the midfield to the main centre forward then we have a ready made option in Kalou who should be tested before plumping for Tevez.

Tevez?s volatility, in this era of Mourinho football is, I think, a redundant attribute ? it may win the crowd round at West Ham where endeavour, heart on the sleeve, sweat till you look like Kate Moss, was enough to raise you above a decidedly under performing, unmotivated and frankly average outfit however at the level that we are looking to compete at I really see this as an attribute that makes no mark on top quality defenders.

[TomP]

To put it simply - it is an easy choice.

Yesterday's man vs. Tomorrow's man.

Not to say that Sheva won't be a better player this season (it would be hard to be any worse).

But towards the end of last season, Tevez was single-handedly winning games against quality oppposition for a pretty poor Hammers side - and he is far from the finished article. In two years time, we will look back at this the same way that we look back at Rooney when he was at Everton and we could have signed him, or Ronaldinho when he was at PSG.

And, in my opinion, positionally he would fit into both of the systems we play like a glove. He would be a perfect support striker for Drogba (or even tip-of-diamond) in the 4-4-2, and would play equally well as a wide-forward in the 4-3-3 - in exactly the same way that Joe Cole and Kalou (and even Robben - who does not play as a conventional winger) do now.

[mad_mac]

keep sheva, as he provides more,a nd seems to have a better temprament than Tevez. Plus, I too think that he is better suited to our system.

Okay, he didnt have a great season last year, but he certainly is a presence and he will draw attention to defenders, thus freeing up space for others to run into.

I remember watching Tevez at the World CUp, adn I thought he ran around a lot with his head down. He is a talent, don't get me wrong, but we have others similar to him, and I don't think he suits our system as much

[bonetti]

it used to be, a long long time ago

Funny thing, I was in getting measured for a funky new pinstriped Hugo Boss suit on the weekend, and cracked the 'inside leg' gag...and the gal measuring me up practically coughed up a lung laughing!

Her boss was standing behind the counter and just rolled his eyes at me and smiled, and said: "It's been a while since anyone trotted that one out in here. It's nice to see someone who appreciates some old-school humour!"

So you see, MLB...everything old is new again, given time! (so there's hope for us yet!!!)

Remind me - whats the inside leg joke?

Bespoke Boss - didnt know they did it