19 replies to this topic

[loz]

To all who have suffered in any war, irrespective of nationality, we should remember their loss and the suffering of their families. Too many good people have suffered fighting someone elses battle or furthering someone else's lust for power.

In war there is never really a winner.

[Hutch]

Remembrance Day at the Cenotaph, 14th November 2010

Quote

Members of the Royal Family, senior government officials past and present, veterans and members of the public gather at the Cenotaph on Whitehall to remember members of the Armed Forces who have died serving their country

[Arq]

Well said Loz.

[dkw]

Its good to remember those who gave the ultimate sacrifice in the pursuit of our freedom. The last post has me almost in tears every single time.

[Spiller86]

I know this isn't about the poppies thing as such, and I share the sentiments of all. I will remain forever grateful as a young man that I in all likelihood will never be asked to do the things they did, in large part because of the sacrifice of generations before me.

Just on the poppies controversy If you had an English manager he would whip this team into such a fury of indignation over the whole thing that they would go out at Wembley and deliver such a performance. Sadly Fabio can't even speak the language let alone get across the kind of message the England team should receive before they go out against Spain on Nov 12.

[Nibs]

I heard something yesterday about FIFA not allowing England to have Poppies on their shirts for next weekend's game? Why?
Hopefully we stand up to them and tell them to f**k off and have the poppies anyway - to hell with the consequences.

[Hutch]

FIFA's reasoning behind the poppy ban is their rule that prohibits political or religious symbols on football shirts.

It's difficult to understand this logic, since the poppy is a symbol of remembrance of those who gave their lives in defence of their country, regardless of race, creed, colour, nationality or political affiliation.

[loz]

FIFA's decision is ridiculous. I understand why the rule was brought in but it was never intended to prevent the display of things like poppies. FIFA should welcome it and look to encourage all teams to do likewise rather then show themselves up as the thoughtless and rigid organisation that they have become.

[Zola]

If Ballack can play for Chelsea with a poppy on, the fecking national team can as well!

[Barry Bridges]

I would imagine FIFAs stance would be more insulting to a German than the actual poppy. The poppy represents the fight of personal freedoms and rights over facist dictatorships.......... If FIFA thinks that may offend Germany, are they not essentially saying that modern Germans are upset the Nazi's lost(and hence are offended by it being rubbed in their face)?

If my county was ever in a situation like Nazi Germany, I'll be the first in line to buy a poppy to commemorate those who helped end such a rein of terror and death. FIFA may be forgetting that few suffered under the Nazi's as much as good German people.

[loz]

Has it been speculated anywhere what the possible sanctions are if the FA just choose to ignore FIFA and the players come out with the poppies on their shirts?

[dkw]

FIFA have just said they can have poppies on the black armband. Not sure if thats any better or not to be honest.

[Hutch]

As I've just written here, I think it's a fair compromise. The biggest danger, I feel, was not that allowing poppies to be worn on England's shirt would open the door to all manner of symbols, but of the argument with FIFA overshadowing what the poppy actually symbolises, overshadowing what Remembrance Day is all about.

[dkw]

It is a compromise but if they are allowing then to be worn why still make a proviso, whats different about wearing it on an armband or the front out a shirt. Looks to me like fifa still trying to show they are in charge.

[moi]

There is nothing at all political about this:

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

Loz Binyon

And let's not forget that Sepp Blatter is Swiss, therefore by tradition unwilling to take sides!

[Hutch]

By "fair compromise" I didn't mean to imply in any way that FIFA were correct to impose a ban on the poppy on either religious or political grounds. I'm not 100% sure, but I think their rules may also cover charitable organisations, in which case the ban could be argued to be at least technically correct.

No, I meant a compromise between what I believe are the wishes of the majority of citizens of the UK, including for once, the government, and the way FIFA has chosen to interpret its own rules. You could say that FIFA being what they are, it's not worth lowering yourself to their level to argue with them. What I'm trying to say is that the issue of Remembrance, what the poppy actually represents is bigger than an argument with FIFA. Rather than continue the argument, in this instance, it's better to accept the compromise and walk away with dignity.

[dkw]

Good point, getting into an argument with fifa over this has shown us what we already knew, they are a bunch of idiots.

[Hutch]

Cobham this morning, during the two minute silence:

[Hutch]

JT and Frank during the England squad's two minute silence:

[jezza]

loz, on 06 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

rather then show themselves up as the thoughtless and rigid organisation that they have become.

Not to mention crooked.