ethicalstrategy

Come on Loz. Still no news on a "I'm not Aving it" smiley? What's the delay?

The point I am making though is that BArca can't stop him leaving IF he wants to leave. Basically the transfer fee is set in stone by the regulations, the only sticking point would be if he wanted to leave and who he wanted to go to. However I do appreciate the concerns about him and do acknowledge that there is an element of gamble to it I just don't think it is as big as a gamble as some people believe. The way some people talk about him it is as if he is 32 and hasn't played well for the best part of 5 years. He is 27 and although not at the peak of his form he is still a lot better than the vast majority of football players in the world and I see no reason why he couldn't regain his best form. Remember it was Tenk Cate who was credited with turning his fitness and form around at Barcelona the first time, I see no reason why that couldn't happen again. I understand that Barca can't hang on to him if he wants to go, but I don't get the impression that they are trying too hard to keep him. I believe that we have made a number of approaches over the last couple of years and have been firmly told to go away. Now his fitness, attitude, motivation etc are all being questioned and his performances have been well below par for both Barca and Brazil. Wouldn't you believe it he is now available, without a transfer fee. I must surely make you wonder whether it is too good to be true. At least with Sheva he was still playing well when we bought him - but I still see some parallels with the Ronnie rumours. I see him as a very talented individual who when on form can do things that no other player can do, but I also don't regard him as a team player. He doesn't turn up for many of the training sessions and if he is off form then he is a liability on the pitch because he doesn't work for the team. I'm not making any of this up. You just have to look at what has been going on in Spain for the last 18 months. I don't think it is an age issue. It is more of a motivation issue. Although I guess I shouldn't worry too much about that now we have Mr Motivator in charge at the Bridge (BTW can we have a "I'm not Aving That!" smilie too please - in the interests of balance? )

You are now getting to the realms of fantasy here! Whatever the transfer fee ended up at, you can be sure of one thing - the contact would be a long one - 4-5 years - and a very lucrative one.

My point was why would Barca let him go unless they felt that he wasn't the asset he once was? It is true that he could find moving to London motivated him to recapture his previous form, but it might also provide him with other opportunities to go out clubbing whilst picking up a nice pay check. If we bought him we would betaking a big gamble. Can he cut it in the PL? Will he be able to get his mind together? Will he fit in to the team? We would not be buying the best player in the world at the top of his form. We would be buying someone who used to be the the best in the hope that he might become that again. Personally, I don't think it is a bet we should take or need to take. We would be better off trying to find the next player to be the best in the world.

Yeah he's fat as Frank and he probobly wears a dodgy tracksuit sometimes, thing is he's also one the most skillful players I've ever seen if he came here for a reasonable fee which looks possible, at 27 there is no reason why he couldn't get his career back on track, even the sight of the oldest mock up picture "I want that one" wouldn't be so funny if he signed for one of our premiership rivals. There's only one reason Barca would be selling for a reasonable price. You would think that we would have learned our lesson with Sheva.

How did I know that you'd think it was a good idea??? You'll doubtless be surprised to learn that I think it's a terrible idea! The last thing we need to do is go around buying other teams cast offs. If they want to sell Messi, or Iniesta then I'd be very interested. But not some fat playboy who can't be bothered.

I keep saying this, but I guess it bears repeating one more time: I am not saying that Grant is doing a bad job. I am more than pleased with the results since he has taken over. You couldn't in all seriousness say he's doing a bad job could you? I am challenging your assertion that we are in any way improved under Grant or that we needed to make the change in the first place. I didn't have a problem with how we used to play just as I don't have a problem with us playing the same way now. lets get it right first...again, You can challenge my assertion that we are improved and I will answer with ..in my opinion we have shown passages of play that is more appealing and more attack minded, we are getting the fullbacks forward further and more often and we are playing on occasion slicker quicker passing with less of the type of play we happened to score from on Saturday. what you should not challenge though is that my opinion was we needed the change in the first place, look back through my posts and see if I ever said in any way Mourinho should go, I never did but that is not to say I agreed with everything he did, I didn't and wont with Grant but I supported him and will support Grant. I as I have said think that the Football we played was secondary to why Jose had to go and more a personality clash of two men with large ego's, this may be wrong but whatever the reason Grant is now the Manager and I like what he says he intends to do and believe I have seen (although he has had but two months and no new players) a slight lean to what he is trying to achieve. Abramovich upset the apple cart because he wanted "sexy" football. When Grant delivers it then I will consider him to be a success in those terms. Sexy Football to me is a term for something that is aspired to rather than mastered, it will always depend on how well the opposition reacts to and deals with the events in the game as to how sexy/entertaining it gets, If they shut down quickly or/and physically dominate then it is going to be difficult, if they stand off and give us time on the Ball it is obviously going to be more likely, the main thing for me here is..If we get the chance and are controlling the game then play, dont just strangle them into submission, Entertain. If however we have to dig deep and grind out results that to me is fine but should be a gameplan motivated by events on the field and not fear of conceding. If he doesn't achieve it, but we still win the Pl or CL then I will consider him a success in my own terms. If he manages both then I'll be f*****g amazed - and that's not a dig at him, just a recognition of the fact that Roman wants his cake and eat it and the real world doesn't often work like that. Agreed but achieving it is hard to judge, it will not happen every game and the attitude that if possible we will try and entertain is the one that I would be happy with, if it happens once or twice every 7 games and we grind out decent results in others I will be over the moon. Arsenal are playing good stuff, ok they have not won much lately but are far better this term than last and win or lose silverware this season they have entertained, Barca nearly always look entertaining, why cant we? As for my attitude towards him more generally, I think it unlikely that I will ever take to him as I did to Claudio or Jose. He doesn't seems the inspiring sort! I am not asking you to like him as a person, his Job is to inspire the players first and foremost , I find it odd how people get so attatched to personalities they will never even talk to so what does that matter? How can you really judge a mans personality by a snippet in a TV interview or a newspaper article? If he does the Job for the team we support and you or I never send him a Christmas Card will it take the shine off it for you? it wont for me. I started a reply to all of that but in the end decided that life's too short You clearly have the perception that under Mourinho we never played any passing football, never entertained and were "long ball" merchants who only ever won 1-0. If that's how you remember it then I can't change it, but it's just not true. What I find really hard to understand is how you can be so positive about things now when nothing much has changed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking results here. Those are fine. But then they were always fine. I mean, you were bored to tears by the pre Grant team but really quite excited by the all new Grant style. Whereas I would find it hard to get a cigarette paper between the two. If Grant is to earn respect he needs to show something more than just maintaining the status quo. He needs to avoid talking down his predecessor and talking up how he has transformed us. If his ticket is exciting, flowing football - as the heart of what his team is about, rather than just the odd game when the opponents make it easy - then that's what he should be judged against. I accept that it will take time and I am not knocking him for not having already achieved it. But equally I am not praising him either. We shall see in time how it pans out - I am just not so confident as you seem to be.

I keep saying this, but I guess it bears repeating one more time: I am not saying that Grant is doing a bad job. I am more than pleased with the results since he has taken over. I am challenging your assertion that we are in any way improved under Grant or that we needed to make the change in the first place. I didn't have a problem with how we used to play just as I don't have a problem with us playing the same way now. Abramovich upset the apple cart because he wanted "sexy" football. When Grant delivers it then I will consider him to be a success in those terms. If he doesn't achieve it, but we still win the Pl or CL then I will consider him a success in my own terms. If he manages both then I'll be f**king amazed - and that's not a dig at him, just a recognition of the fact that Roman wants his cake and eat it and the real world doesn't often work like that. As for my attitude towards him more generally, I think it unlikely that I will ever take to him as I did to Claudio or Jose. He doesn't seems the inspiring sort!

You see, I thought that was pretty much how he played for most of the match. The bad tackle came from frustration at being constantly nipped at by the West Ham midfield. If you look back at where he has got himself in to trouble it has either been from cynical fouls (shirts tugs etc), or frustration, either at himself when he loses the ball or with the opponent. Hopefully he will be able to get a grip of that aspect of his game. He is clearly capable.

The frustration comes from the fact that the english game doesn't allow you time on the ball and because refs generally will let little niggles go more often than not. I seem to remember Fabregas getting sent of a couple of times in a similar fashion. He will learn over time. He could certainly learn from Maka how to break up the play and foul without getting penalised, but I hope we see a much more rounded game from him. Just because he starts in place of Maka doesn't mean he has to play the same game.

I agree he was poor, particularly in the first half, particularly when he was on the ball. In the second half he got the time to strut which he does very well. However he plays in a specialist position where ego should be left in the dressing room. If he wants to know how to play there he should watch the world's best in training every week. Was it Deschamps who referred to the role as that of hod carrier? The essence of the role is twofold; breaking up the opposition play and knitting together his own team's play. Defensively he's OK, but is far too easily drawn into squabbles which effect his own play. He will probably improve in this area as he matures. It is when he is on the ball in tight matches like yesterday that he needs to improve the most. He takes far too many touches and invites the opposition on to himself far too often, the play becomes compressed, with the net result that when he does release the ball it is to a teammate who is under unecessary additional pressure. He needs to get it and give it, get and again and give it again. There is no room for "look at me everybody" in that position. When he learns that he will be a far more effective player if not the new Shed End Forum Favourite. Sorry Liam, I can't agree with much of that at all. Yes, he needs to cut out the rash challenges, but to be fair to him, he managed to get through the rest of the match ok and still be effective. Otherwise he did very well. He is comfortable on the ball and can hold on to it in tight spaces which actually helps us to keep the ball and not have to lump it long. He is pretty tough to knock off the ball too. I don't see his role being a replacement for Maka but more rounded than that. In the second half he made a number of excellent forward runs with the ball and really helped us to take the initiative in the match. I'm not saying he was perfect, but he certainly wasn't poor.

That was never a sending off offence. Neither was Mikel's at OT. or indeed his tackle on saturday - although it was very stupid.

Mikel was poor, which is so disappointing for me, because outside Joey he is my fav chelsea player. But Ill admit you have it POOR Mikel? Poor? Do me a favour. He was excellent - apart from his one moment of madness when he lost his head.

Yep I'm afraid Jose did really leave.. Luckily, he left a good team behind him. Grant is finding out that playing expansive, attacking football against teams who are well organised and determined to stop you playing is pretty tough. Beating Man City 6-0 has only made the situation worse in as much as no team is going to come and play against us. So I expect a lot more 1-0 thrillers at home this season. The main thing though is that we won. And I was pleased to hear Avram making the stunningly obvious point that sometimes winning ugly is needed if you are going to finish top.

I'd take him back because then we wouldn't have to play Sidwell.

Do you think he cried a lot when Jose left?

Thats a shame because I have nothing but respect and admiration for the C**t Language Timothy!

Oops. I didn't know he was injured Looks like he will still be out according to the BBC. Same for Cech too although they were suggesting he would play during commentary on wednesday.

Let's get things started: Curbishley thinks Chippy doesn't know what he's talking about Hopefully we will give them a good tonking. Team: Cech (I believe he will be available) Belletti, Alex, JT, Cole Lampard, Mikel, Sidwell SWP, Drogba, Malouda

No excuse needed for a 2-0 win. I'm very happy with it. I'm just surprised that you aren't more critical of the fact that we played with such lack of style, ambition and adventure! Or perhaps I should say that we didn't TRY to play with more style, ambition and adventure. (after all it would be a bit churlish to complain about not actually achieving that with the bunch of no hope, second rate losers that he inherited - in fact you almost feel sorry for him )

The difference is though Chippy that the last manager wasn't going around shooting his mouth off about how it was so important to win in "the right way" all the time. Under Mourinho the attitude was always to win first even if it meant win ugly. We made the changes to be better than that - at least that's what I thought!. The idea was that our free flowing, attacking football would blow such minnows as Derby away. Jose didn't need an excuse. I think Grant does given his stated intentions!! For me, a 2-0 win away after an international week is a good result. I would have liked us to play better but I am happy with the result.

A great comment on the Guardian football podcast. Rafa's rotation policy is designed to make it harder for the burglars to know which players will be away with the team each week!!! Of course, the other big question would be, would he pick Gerrard? I don't think he would.

I suspect that he would have signed if he had been confident that Jose was staying. As it looked likely that he would go by the end of this season he wanted to leave himself some options. Whether he goes or not will depend a lot on what happens between now and the end of the season both at the club and with Mourinho. I think we have had enough evidence already this season to say that both Drogs and Lampard would be sorely missed. It doesn't mean we can't be a great team without them but I don't see many like for like replacements. I'm not sure there really are a load of great midfielders out there. The very best players are always few and far between.

Any old fool could do it then: "Not until 1946 did the England national team have a manager or coach. From 1870, when England played their first match, a friendly not recognised as official, until the Second World War, the team was selected by Football Association functionaries, at first the F.A. Secretary and later the F.A.'s International Committee. Although most of the national teams of Continental Europe and South America had coaches from their beginnings, England's footballing establishment viewed coaching with suspicion in general and as unnecessary at this level in particular. The selected players simply showed up, took the pitch and played their own game. Match preparation, if there was time for it, was limited to training runs, conditioning exercises and perhaps a kickabout or two."

But Barry didn't hold, did he? Mostly I saw him losing the ball just outside the opposition penalty area or else giving up tracking the runner for their second goal. The problem is not the players. It is the manager who needs to impose a pattern of play and be capable of communicating it to the team.