ethicalstrategy

or Irish. we know that the Irish are special!

Barca were awesome going forward, but Zaragoza were shocking. They had no idea how to cope and looked like they gave up after Messi's second. You won't see Barca destroy a team like Milan in that way ( or a Mourinho team ) and defensively they are still very vulnerable. Messi does look something very special, but I thought Iniesta was terrific too.

Blimey, I must be a nazi.....or....... 1. I don't believe Essien / Carvalho / Ferreira / Belletti / Alex / Lampard / Mikel Drogba / Sheva etc etc will still be with us in a JM-less 2011 team, 2. I can see the 4 outfieders sticking around because they are all London boys and all play for England, therefore it's convenient. 3. I really want Cech to stay (this is a dream, right?) 5. My point about being a strong community side prompted the hope that we had good British talent coming through the ranks. I know this is hopelessly naive and out of date but I'd hate to ever be a Gooner supporting a team almost entirely comprised of London visitors rather than London natives. Your point is a good one re. Barca but the point of this thread is about dream scenarios. and my point was that your dream was to be like Barca but that Barca didn't represent what you were dreaming about! (if that makes sense!) of course the names u mentioned will mostly be gone in 4 years and I agree a team which has a strong English (not British) spine is desireable. but personally I quite like to see other top international players at the club too. (no idea if you're a nazi ) )

I agree. I've never bought in to this whole idea that all we ever do is lump the ball up to Drogba. I'm not saying we don't ever play long (which BTW is not the same as "just lumping the ball forward"), but I think that is a legitimate part of the game in conjunction with shorter passing. It makes it much more difficult for teams to defend and can open up space in midfield.

What was great about the way we played in the first two seasons was that we could adapt to find the best way to win a particular match. There was a lot of quick passing and use of the wings but when we needed to we could go over the top - like against Bayern in the CL. Mourinho's tactics were designed to fit the current need and that is what sets him apart from even someone like Wenger, who has one way of playing and it either wins or it doesn't. I believe it made us the most complete team in the country and possibly Europe. Last season was different because it was affected considerably by the need to accomodate players that didn't really fit with what Mourinho wanted to do. The adaptability was still there, but it seemed to be more about how to rescue a match than to take the initiative. I believe that if Mourinho had been left to get on with his job then things would have been different last season. This season was even worse because he was not only going to have to accomodate players he didn't want but also to play in a way which was foreign to his whole ethos - the result was there for all to see.

I didn't notice Barca having many homegrown players in their team. In fact they barely have any Spanish players. (off the top of my head, Valdes, Puyol, Xavi) I can't honestly see us having 6 homegrown youth players ever. It is an unrealistic situation to expect to be able to find that many people at such a young age who will go on to be world class (which is what they need to be to get in to our side) I notice that you would like all of the side apart from Cech to be British. Why not just English? Is there some special factor about being Irish, Scottish or Welsh that makes a player more valuable, in a footballing sense, than say a Spaniard or an Italian or an African?

I don't think we can afford to take it easy in any matches for the moment. We have a reasonable run of games in the league, which we need to capitalise on if we are going to stay in the title race, and some tough matches in the CL. We need to find the strongest team that we can and play together for a run of matches to let the players get some confidence and adapt to any changes in playing style that the new manager may want. I would go with: Cech Belletti, Alex, Ben Haim, Cole SWP, Essien, Sidwell, Malouda Cole, Shevchenko I left JT out because he should not play again until he is fully fit. He is crucial to us and absolutely no good to us if he is playing half fit.

After watching sunday's performance against Utd I have some serious worries about the impact on Joey of Jose's leaving. He seemed to play as if relieved that Jose wasn't there anymore so he could get away from playing any sort of disciplined game and just indulge himself like he did in the past. If he continues with that attitude he will finish up as a wasted talent, which wouldbe a crying shame.

And now thats complete sh*t. As I said you are not a fool only because you are young, hungry and hot blooded. Erm no of course it doesnt. Im not sure what you are getting at. But Mikel keeps doing it. The last thing we needed after the week we had , at Old Trafford , the refs holiday camp of all places was for our players to make silly tackles like that. It wasnt a red but it was such a silly challenge to make and it just keeps happening with the lad. Mikel has previous for it and i maintain, the bloke can be a fool. It cost us so much today. Though as you can see from my posts i agree with you about Joes challenge. I'm not sure where you are getting this "previous" from. I don't deny that he can be a little hot headed at times, but neither of his previous dismissals came for dangerous play or bad tackles. Against Reading he was guilty of stupidity by cynically pulling back a Reading player after he had already been booked and then in the Carling Cup he was sent off - wrongly in my opinion - because he again cynically pulled back Toure who then went wild and it all kicked off. Essien is the player who has most "previous" for over the top tackles and getting sent off/suspended

well that was hard to watch. obviously the ref was hopeless but I didn't see much from us to encourage me. We created zero chances and looked lightweight upfront, in midfield and at the back. the marking for Utd's first goal was shocking. tevez was just stood there inbetween cole, ben haim and terry - any suggestion that cech was at fault is way off. JT has some problems. He didn't look even half fit today and to be honest he didnt look that interested. essien and makalele and even michel didnt look like a midfield that will create anything. essien was particularly poor giving the ball away in very dangerous positions. Our attack was non existent even before the sending off. malouda showed some nice touches, sheva was anonymous and joe ran around like a headless chicken - it was like his mind was telling him that Jose's gone now, I can forget all that discipline and team play nonsense now thank god! overall i thought we were pussys out there. we really didn't show any fighting spirit. we were like a team thats lost its heart (which we have) we looked happy to lose 1 nil. Gullit just summed it up when he said that we played lilke a team who felt they had all the excuses in the world to lose. I hope Roman enjoyed it

Well you don't need to look very far to see why our performances have fallen off so much. With all of the crap that has been going on it's something of a miracle that we managed to do so well last season at all. As for Grant, you can look at it two ways. On one hand you might think that anyone in his position would jump at the chance to manage one of the world's richest and most successful clubs. Alternatively, you might think he is a man with no self regard if he is prepared to act as Roman's puppet. I take the latter view.

Nobody had ever that kind of money available to them,either. I'm not knocking JM's accomplishments, they're quite remarkable but he had inherited a top quality squad that had finished second only a season before and was given unlimited budget to play with. Ranieri had that kind of money.l And the advantage of having been already managing the club for 3 or 4 years. He couldn't win it in his first season. Real Madrid threw money at it like it was going out of fashion but it didn't bring them success. As soon as Capello came in, after some of the big money names had gone, he won it. It's not about tha money. It's about management. There are few other managers who are as good as Jose. So the real answer to this question is that it could be possible but fairly unlikely....and no chance with Grant.

Isnt it a bit early to judge our manager ? Lets see what he can do and then judge him. He is our new manager and I wouldn?t know a reason why he deserves to be called "fat nobody" !! Well, he is fat and in footballing terms at least, he is a nobody!

Anything is possible, of course, but there is nothing about this whole shambles that points to it ending in anything other than a complete disaster. The press conference was just a manifestation of the clouded thinking that is coming from Abramovich. Grant has absolutely no credentials to be managing the club. He isn't even a manager with a reputation for playing the type of football that Abramovich reputedly wants. Kenyon squirmed because he was trying to defend the indefensible and justify the unjustifiable. I believe that he actually was very much on Mourinho's side and that he was responsible for brokering the uneasy peace that kept Jose here in the summer. If he was a man of principles (ha!) he would have resigned when Jose left. As it is he has just confirmed what we already know - that he is in it for himself and will bend whichever way the wind is blowing when it comes down to it. Personally, I really don't think it is too early to be jumping to conclusions. The evidence is there already to make it possible to draw a lot of very sound conclusions. The main one being that it would be something of a major miracle if Grant was able to deliver on what Abramovich wants. I didn't want Jose to go, but then I didn't want Ranieri to go. As it turned out, I was wrong on that. But whilst I thought that the club's treatment of Claudio was scandalous I could see the argument for replacing him with Mourinho. If the club had brought in someone to replace Jose who had the potential and track record to be able to deliver a more attacking but equally successful team then I could at least see the logic, even if I didn't agree with it. Instead, I see us effectively sacking the best young manager in the world and our most succsessful manager ever amd replacing him with the owners new best mate. I'm off to panic now!

apparently Grant got the job on merit! of course when some bright journo asked what merit Kenyon and Buck were completely stumped. just watch Jose's impromptu interview to the british press to see someone handle themselves with class.

Well I just watched the press conference at Chelsea to introduce Avram Grant and then Jose's interview above. If ever I needed confirmation that the club has just made a massive mistake then I just got it.

Can another manager win the PL twice, the Carling Cup twice and the FA Cup, as well as getting us to the last 4 in the CL twice - all in his first 3 years? I'm going for no on this one oh and I didn't mention creating a team that broke the record for most points, fewest goals conceded and longest run of clean sheets in his FIRST year!

I'm glad you can be so relaxed about it. We have a replacement. Do you think he is a good one? Maybe just run past me his previous experience and his achievements.

and we have already seen an exodus of sorts already. "Chelsea have confirmed that Mourinho's backroom staff have also left the club, including assistant managers Baltemar Brito and Rui Faria. Head opposition scout Andre Villas and goalkeeping coach Silvino Louro have also departed Stamford Bridge" So not only do we have to worry bout who's selecting the team but also who"s helping to prepare the matches.

Why no chance for Lampard? He hasn't signed a new contract when Jose was here so who is to say that Jose leaving would be a reason for him not to sign in future. There seems to be a lot of people making a lot of assumptions about players not being happy with Jose leaving and the negative impact it is going to have and I don't deny that could be the case with some players (Drogba seeming to be the obvious one). However maybe there are some players who are secretly quite happy that Jose has gone - for instance maybe Joe Cole, Paulo Ferreira, Bridge, Mikel, Sheva, Ballack, Bridge, Robben (damn he has already gone) and who knows maybe even Lampard. Lamps was Jose's man - no doubts. He was holding off signing because he felt this might happen. Jose wasn't too bothered because he knew Frank would stay whilst he was there and that he would come with him if he left. All that may be bollocks but it sounds quite plausible to me

I admire your optimism Loz. But if Abramovich is going to treat the club and the fans as if its just his personal play thing then we will quickly become a laughing stock. Grant will not be a success in my terms - i.e. winning the league/CL but of course he might be able to make us into pretty losers as Roman seems to want. I really can't believe that so many seem to think that Jose leaving is for the best. Even if we replace him with someone at the same level - and they are few and far between - it won't mean the sort of football that RA apparently wants - cos that wins f**k all.

I'd say there is no chance of Lampard signing another contract now. Drogba will be off too I reckon. ..and we all know how good we are without them!

Well Loz, two things. First, it seems it will be Grant. Second, you don't think it is such a bad move? You have the best young mamager in the world and then force him out with unrealistic expectations and by interfering in how he does his job. It's a terrible move - just terrible. I use to defend Abramovich from all the jibes about Chelsea just being a rich man's play thing but it turns out that I was just being naive. Your comparison with Hearts is all too accurate. We will become the laughing stock of European football. If he wants the European Cup then you either play to win or play to entertain but the latter isn't going to win it for you.

I feel like I'm in some kind of twilight zone. First I look on the BBC to check the Man U and Arsenal scores only to find Jose has been sacked and then I come down in the morning to find that Grant is our new manager! Grant set to take over at Chelsea

Wasn't going to bother to answer that, but I've taken the bait!!! It wasn't just one cross. He did a fair bit more than that. And I've said countless times that Joe didn't have a great game. He just wasn't anywhere near as bad as Loz was making out. Jeez.................... Maybe 1 was a bit harsh, but if you judge him honestly, against expectation, then you surely have to admit that he was one of the big disappointments last night. Against a team like Rosenborg I would have expected him to really shine. Instead I kept seeing him running down blind alleys before more or less disappearing altogether. When he wasn't playing he was going to make all the difference. Since he has been playing he hasn't made all the difference. So as not to seem like I'm down on Joe, I feel exactly the same about Essien. With Frank out now is the time for him to step up. So far he really hasn't. Again, he hasn't been desperately bad, but he hasn't been able to give us the control and distribution and goal threat that we need. So judged against expectation he was definitely a flop. Others, like Kalou didn't do well but then my expectations for him are much lower. The strangest decision last night was to play Maka - or at least to persist with him for the full 90 minutes. He didn't help keep our defense sound and he offered nothing going forward. Mikel would have been a much better choice.