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Threads like this are why these forums are head and shoulders above all the others. Genius Mike, Pure Genius. But why was Ruudi never your ideal Doctor? John Neal was my Pertwee, but Ruud G was the timelord I'll thank for saving the world. PS: Dorset - "Paddy Hasty" Sounds like an Irish porn star!

Vialli. Ruud G was sacked after he had taken us to our first major trophy in 26 years, and when were 2nd in the EPL and in two cup-semi finals. Has that ever happened to any other manager? Luca was succesful. But it was Ruud's team. And we played "sexy football".

I think you're off base on that one Bluenut. I'm 100% certain Ranners wanted Veronimo. Despite his drastic failure at the Theatre of Muppets. Claudio thought Veron could reproduce what he had in Serie A, when he looked the donkey's doo dahs in practically every game. Unfortunately, Ranners hadn't taken into account the huge differences between the two footballing cultures. Most notably the frenetic pace and lack of space associated with an EPL midfield. Hence, (as many people predicted), the Baldy One was again a fish out of water. And an expensive, dismal, laughable misfit once more.

Something must have stung. Tad agressive there Henry/Enrico. Or whatever you want to call yourself.

Lucky you didn't have a great fall Humpty. This is probably gonna be way over your head Henry I know, but sometimes that's how it gets to real supporters. They can get all emotional over something that's important to them. Something they've cared pasionately about for most of their lives. I cried at Wembley in '97 when Wisey and the boys went up the steps to collect that cup after 26 years of nothing. I was with my father, (a lifelong Chelsea supporter), and there were tears in his eyes as well. Imagine that. Two grown men crying. What a pair of tossers eh?

Glad you enjoyed the night Sandnes. You certainly rode your luck at times, (with Drogba up front I feel it would have been a very different result), especially 2nd half but the goal gave you some belief and confidence and your lads worked their socks off. Jose said as much after the match. Fair play to them. As regards to the support, I didn't go to the game, but on the TV your fans sounded pretty vocal. Certainly had a few blonde stunners amongst your lot! Strong possibilty I may be over for the return leg at your place in November. See you then.

Wouldn't call it an exodus, but yes, I do expect one or two to follow him out of the door at the end of the season. And those one or two may well be major, key players. Depends on 4 things IMO. 1. Who takes over from Jose. 2. How the players respect/get on with the new man. 3. Where Jose ends up next. 4. How well we do between now and the end of the season. In respect of no:1, surely Roman, Buck and Kenyon already have a few candidates lined up ?

My father was there to see us win the League in '55, he never thought he'd see us win it again. I certainly never believed I'd see Chelsea win the top title in my lifetime. Your reign saw us have the most succesful period the club has ever known. You truly were the "Special One". Thank you Jose.

I did. At half-time. I was hoping to raise a laugh at what was a pretty grim performance. In my defence there were five jokers who voted for Shev on Saturday!

But he didn't leave there permanently did he? He was also still popping up alongside Terry and around the box. You need to be careful G4 you are moving into conspiracy territory here.

yes it is, however when terry went forward, sheva went deep and stayed deep. it's not the first time he's been put into an area you could only describe as "midfield". He actually drifted out to the left for a bit as well. Again, I don't think Jose instructed him to go out there either. It's just his natural instincts to drift into different positions. Not just for us but also in his time at Milan and for Ukraine.

Cole's ball into the box first few minutes of the 2nd half? You'll not see a better cross than that all season. . I have already said that was a great ball - we will see many balls this season as good as it and probably quite a few better however it was still a cracking ball. But again I say it was nowhere near enough to redeem a dismal performance. Cole wasn't good tonight for sure Loz, (for the whole 90 I don't think anyone was!), but, com'on, you'll not see a more inviting cross. A ball like that into an uncrowded box is a good centre-forward's bread and butter. 8 times of 10 that has to put away. And it wasn't. Beglin said as much on the commentary.

I think I've pointed this out before, but one thing I have noticed with him since he has been here is he doesn't very often try to anticipate. By that I mean to gamble and cut across in front opponents. He seems to wait until a pass is hit. possibly an indication that the day to day coaching features little attacking work? how many times do we have to see him calling for passes, pointing to where he wants the ball only to receive it too late or not at all? it's hardly a surprise IF he's not gambling (and I'm not sure I agree with that) if no understanding with the other players has been built. Yes, but calling for passes whilst standing behind, or level with, a defender. Hence, those balls are invariably cut out. He is not making the initial movement to get across or behind the defender. He's not making the assist easy. Believe me, it makes it a hell of a lot harder to complete the pass when you have to get it around the opponent. Also I don't think he was "dropped deep" as you seem to be infering. In fact with us chasing the points I'm pretty certain JM didn't tell him to go back and play in front of the midfield. If you watch him, it's an area he often likes to drop into.

Cole's ball into the box first few minutes of the 2nd half? You'll not see a better cross than that all season. To be fair Shev had a better 2nd period than the first. He stayed on his feet more for starters. And he can't complain of service in the 2nd 45. Lots of balls into and around the Norwegians box to thrive on. The run and lay off to Kalou was probably his best moment with the ball. But still not enough to get all wet and sticky over. I think I've pointed this out before, but one thing I have noticed with him since he has been here is he doesn't very often try to anticipate. By that I mean to gamble and cut across in front opponents. He seems to wait until a pass is hit.

Loz, I can't believe you really think Sheva has done Ok. I thought he was playing on roller skates for most of that 45. He can only get better 2nd half.

Very poor all round so far. For me, only Cashley and Maka came out of that half with any credit. Still, I'm hopeful things will change. I can understand why people are getting all nostalgic for Robben tonight. Rosenborg are certainly the calibre of opposition he'd be up for.

G4, why do you and Pauly begin many of your posts with.............................. "ha, ha" ? I have a vision in my head of two Alan Partridges discussing football in a motorway Tavelodge.................... Back of the net.

Talk about damned with faint praise!!! He was done from behind, (oh, er!), when jinking away from Bentley in the first 3 minutes. He carried the ball forward wonderfully but often had little to aim for in front of him, (Sheva and Kalou). He played Belletti in for the cross on the goal, he hit a wonderful volleyed, first-time, cross-field pass from the edge of our box to set up a swift counter. All told, (as is usual when he plays), he gave us a tempo and forward momentum that few others give us. Granted towards the end of the match when we were getting desperate he hit a couple of stupid shots when he should have kept possession but, hey, even Frankie is prone to doing that.

Nick, I played football for a very long time with a close friend. A long time ago we both got to play for a bit at a reasonable level. My mate played all his life at right back. Thing was, he was never what I would term a good footballer. Technically he really was quite poor. But boy, was he an athlete. Strong, stamina,(regularly ran half-marathons), 110% concentration and comittment every game. He was also the best man-marker I ever saw at our level. But his over-riding asset was his pace. He was rapid with a capital R. G4 would probably say I am describing Ashley Cole here. And, yes, they were very similar players. However, when my friend reached 31ish his pace disappeared. Literally, or so it appeared at the time, in the space of a few weeks. He just couldn't accelerate anymore. The legs wouldn't do it. He is actually still playing local Saturday afternoon reserve team football at the ripe old age of 47. Fair play to him. But he was never, ever the same player or played at as high a level after he lost that yard of speed. Age catches up with everyone. Some sooner than others. And the effects can be immediate.

OK Pauly. We give in. It's all Mourinho's fault. Just like it was all Ferguson's and Ranieri's fault with Veron.

All absolutely true. I don't see how anyone can question his attitude or comittment either. He is obviously giving his all. That's what makes it so sad. The brain is still in top gear but the body can't get out of second.

Long, long ago, way before Russian billionaires were invented, in a far off place called the old CSR myself, Butch, Loz and I think if memory serves me right, Tea Bar Boy, used to regularly discuss our mutual admiration of Mr Barry and hope that some of the limited funds available at that time be spent to bring him to Stamford Bridge. Gareth Barry has always been a good player. A very good player.

Your views on Sheva have as much merit as mine on Drogba. Chelsea's industry rewarded by Wise By Henry Winter Electronic Telegraph, 27th October 1999 Disciplined and determined, Chelsea deservedly went top of Champions' League Group H last night when Dennis Wise equalised with a wonderful goal, the ball placed arrogantly through Milan goalkeeper Christian Abbiati's legs. Wise, who led Chelsea's spirited response to every Milan move, will seize the headlines but the acquisition of this important point stemmed from the industry of all Gianluca Vialli's players, embodied by Tore Andre Flo and Frank Leboeuf, who were both outstanding, though Leboeuf was caught out by Oliver Bierhoff for Milan's goal. Chelsea need only a point from next week's visit of Hertha Berlin, who surprisingly lost at home to Galatasaray last night. Wise's goal holds extra significance as it ensures Chelsea will progress should they and Milan finish level on points. The Turkish side came back from 1-0 down after Hertha captain Kjetil Redkal scored a 35th-minute penalty - to win 4-1. Beaten 5-0 in Istanbul by Chelsea last week and out of contention, Galatasaray had their tails up when Hakan Sukur headed home an equaliser three minutes after the break. Sukur banged home a second in the 66th minute before goals by substitute Kerimoglu Tugay (81) and Buruk Okan, in injury time, sealed the win. A scoreless opening hour in the San Siro had seen Chelsea at their intelligent best, defending from the front, rarely wasting possession and always looking to find the overlapping player. Flo was particularly impressive, the tall Norwegian dragging Milan's three central defenders out of position and constantly seeking to set up late-arriving team-mates, such as Dan Petrescu. The Romanian departed at half-time but had proved a useful contributor, almost scoring after two minutes, following a good save from Flo by Abbiati. The keeper then denied Petrescu with his feet again after Flo had split the Italian defence asunder. Chelsea's movement was terrific, thrillingly demonstrated after 21 minutes when Petrescu sent Wise scampering down the right. His cross, low and hard, was met by Flo but his shot flew over. Wise then invited Albert Ferrer to try his luck but the little Spaniard was thwarted by Abbiati's superb tip over. Chelsea's huge support certainly finished the half in good voice but there were moments when their hearts must have been in their throats. Andriy Shevchenko, Milan's mobile and menacing forward, needed constant watching. Quick of mind and body, Shevchenko ran here and there, testing the defensive experience of Leboeuf and Marcel Desailly, who had been given an emotional welcome by the Curva Sud. The former AC player responded by pointing at his heart and then at them. Yet it was Desailly's partner at centre-half, Leboeuf, who proved the rock on which the occasional red-and-black waves foundered. He began with a wonderful tackle on Shevchenko but was fortunate not to concede a penalty when clearly tugging at the Ukrainian's shirt. Shevchenko threatened most when meeting an 18th-minute free-kick, which curled wide, and then when beating Ferrer to head Serginho's flighted dead-ball against a post. But he was poorly served by Milan's largely uninspiring midfield, though Massimo Ambrosini tried to enliven proceedings with a fulminating 30-yarder which Ed De Goey pushed away eight minutes after the break. These were worrying times for Chelsea. Oliver Bierhoff headed over and then on rushed Zvonimir Boban to introduce some guile into Milan's movements. Moments after Gustavo Poyet had seen his close-range header brilliantly saved by Abbiati, Milan struck when Bierhoff beat Leboeuf to Serginho's cross and headed unstoppably past De Goey. Vialli promptly replaced Poyet with Roberto Di Matteo, a switch that brought immediate and spectacular rewards. Di Matteo whipped a long pass forward, the ball falling sweetly over Maldini into the path of Wise, whose left-footed finish raced through Abbiati's legs. I was at the game and I agree with everything Henry Winter wrote about that night. Especially the bit highlighted. Shevchenko played much of the game out wide, right and left flank, and went past players like they weren't there. He was so quick. He was fabulous. He was what age then? 22 or 23 ? I got to see him live again just a few months later at Wembley. England 2 Ukraine 0. Our last home game before Euro 2000. Once more Shevchenko was superb. His movement, pace and strength were first class. Virtually everytime he got the ball he did something. I went with my brother-in-law and it was the first time he had seen Sheva play. He couldn't believe how fast he was. To be honest, I don't much care whether you believe me or not Henry. I know that the Shevchenko I saw in those two games is not the same player we have struggling so badly at Chelsea now. And the fact that he can no longer fly past defenders, spin off markers, hold the ball up etc. etc. has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with systems, formations, trequartaristas, no:10's, no:2's long balls, short balls, round balls, square balls, balls into feet, balls into elbows, first time passes, weekend passes, Kyhber passes, Jose Mourinho, Nigella Lawson or the Labour government. And, I repeat, it's sad to see a once great player being rolled over and bossed by journeymen EPL defenders who wouldn't have got close enough to spit at him when he was in his prime.

OK. But then, (if you're gonna keep score), Jose didn't make a big drama about the Laursen foul on SWP which should have been a nailed-on penalty at Villa Park.

i think you have some point- we don't have a great passing side even with lampard in it, but the best thing about joe's performance today was that he was trying to make passes from the right AREA. It wasn't just: big defender wins ball, ball is pushed out wide, cross, repeat. And it wasn't these impossible passes from the half way line for the strikers- we need joe in the lineup to play in between the lines, i think if there was a player who didn't belong today it was kalou- he was in the right place once in the entire game- when he scored.. I am sure G4 would whole-heartedly disagree. Firstly it's accepted knowledge that Joe doesn't have the range of passing to make that difference, and secondly he doesn't have the footballing brain to operate effectively through the middle. His best position, as has been stated on numerous occaisions, is definately out wide left where he can cut inside on to his right foot.