England vs Russia

[loz]

An absolute must win game for England as far as I am concerned and very very far from an easy task.

People are getting very carried away with the Israel result and pointing toward the fact that Israel has won 17 points in the group so far and therefore were no pushovers. Well I beg to differ. Israel were atrocious at Wembley and I don't think you can read too much into the scoreline due to that. England should also have won the away game against Israel quite comfortably and they would be more comfprtable now had they done that.

As for who McLaren will play well for me he should start the same eleven that started agaisnt Israel however he is heavily hinting that there will be changes. That may mean the return of the bean pole which I think is a bad move. As much as I am shaking my head at people getting over excited about the return of Heskey to the England team he dd play well against Israel and most importantly he and Owen know each other's games well.

[Nibs]

I think it will be pretty harsh on any of the 11 who started against Israel if they do not start tonight. If the same 11 play tonight and again do well it will leave McLaren with a bit of a dilemma and could leave the likes of our Frank in a situation they are not used to.

It will be a little ironic if at international level Lamps has to sit on the bench and watch SWP & Joe start every game.

[Jack]

I really don't think McClaren has much of a problem, bar deciding between Crouch and Heskey. I think he'll go with the same team as Saturday, partly because they did well and partly because he'll get slated if he changes it and it doesn't work! The papers have forced the issue on several counts when it comes to the England manager and I'm sure whoever is manager feels a need to keep them at arms length. Changing the team now would play into their hands - luckily for him (and Frank) Lamps isn't fit so Barry has to play.

The most important players on the pitch tonight will be the full-backs. Russia are quick and will give Mick-ah/Mike-ah and Arsely a good test. As usual I'm only really interested in the Chelsea boys, so for his sake I hope SWP doesn't end up facing his own goal too often - he has a tendency to give the ball away by trying a flick/trick to get away from any close attention, and it can lead to problems when/if it doesn't come off. Everyone said how well JT's been playing for England, but I thought Kuranyi gave him a bit of a chasing in the Germany game and overall I'd say his game is a bit off all round. I don't think he's as mobile as he was before the back problem (something everyone seems to forget). The only worry I have about Joey Cole is that sometimes he runs with the ball looking for the challenge, which is great in terms of team play (winning free-kicks) but I do think he runs the risk of getting injured. You will often here me shouting 'pass the bloody thing' when he goes on one of his mazy runs!

I could give a toss about Arsely - overrated twat. Not even the best left-back inthe club, as far as I'm concerned. I hope their right winger rips him a new one!

I hope England can nick a win tonight so our boys can come back feeling confident and happy, but I have a feeling the draw is the bet.

[ethicalstrategy]

I think it's pretty uncontentious to say (maybe Beckham apart) that McClaren's first team - if everyone is fit - would be:

Robinson

Richards - Terry - Ferdinand - Cole A.

SWP - Lampard - Gerrard - Cole J.

Rooney - Owen

Which would leave the England international representation from the top four clubs as:

Chelsea - 5

Man U - 2

Liverpool - 1

Arsenal - a big fat 0

and we had 4 players in the Under 19's team - would have been 5 if Sinclair had been fit.

[Tim]

Sadly I think that you will find Lampard's selection is now contentious such has been the media witchhunt against him in recent months.

My bet is that if we win tonight, and perhaps even if we don't but Gerrard has a good game, that Barry or Hargreaves become first choice ahead of Frank, and it will be very hard for him to win it back.

Which IMHO will be a disgraceful decision.

[ethicalstrategy]

Sadly I think that you will find Lampard's selection is now contentious such has been the media witchhunt against him in recent months.

My bet is that if we win tonight, and perhaps even if we don't but Gerrard has a good game, that Barry or Hargreaves become first choice ahead of Frank, and it will be very hard for him to win it back.

Which IMHO will be a disgraceful decision.

I understand where you are coming from, but I actually think that McClaren will still pick him - don't forget that he has shoved Gerrard out to the right to accomadate Frank in the past. I am certain he would have played tonight had he been fit.

[TerryIsALegend]

agreed tim, i think if we win tonight lampard will not be starting englands next game, which is beyound stupidity.

fancy a 2-0 win tonight

Heskey and Joey to get the goals

[Tim]

Yes fair point ethical, I guess I just fundamentally see McClaren as quite spineless and so believe he will eventually bow to media pressure and drop Frank, even if he has shown, quite rightly, a degree of faith in him so far.

Hope he proves me wrong though.

[Nibs]

agreed tim, i think if we win tonight lampard will not be starting englands next game, which is beyound stupidity.

Can't really agree with that.

As a Chelsea fan I love it when Chelsea players are involved with England. In the past there was little interest for me in watching England (with the notable exceptions of 1990 and 1996 finals). Over the years it was great when a Chelsea player got included in the squad - Wilkins, Dixon, Dorigo, Le Saux or whoever, but now we are spoilt and it's great to see England with so many of our boys involved, especially if they play well and get the praise for it.

However, if a player is not playing well, or another player who plays in his position is doing well, he shouldn't play - regardless of who he is - Lampard, Beckham, Rooney - whoever. If Joe has a couple of crap games for England then he should be replaced (although of course, NOT by Stuart Downing). Same goes for Lamps. He has been average for England for a while and the Gerrard / Lampard partnership just doesn't work. Okay, Stevie G is well over hyped by the media and all but if you speak to absolute neutrals who really don't give a toss one way or the other, if they had to pick between the two, most would pick Gerrard over Lamps. Hard for us non neutrals to accept but a fact none the less. So If Gerrard and Barry works and well, or even if it was Hargreaves and Barry and no Gerrard or Lamps, so be it. Just because they are a big name and on paper a top player, that alone does not and should not guarantee them getting selected - that is where we have always gone wrong in the past.

[Barn]

I think it's about time an England manager had the balls to leave one of them out. If it's Frank well at least he'd be showing some nuts to make a tough call, it would be harsh on Frank as it could be either one of them.

[barak81]

I do believe that a decent manager could make them work, if not in a 4-4-2 then cirtainly in a 4-3-3 with hargreaves or some one covering so they dont have to keep looking behind them

[loz]

Well I am a firm believer in sticking with the players that are delivering for you and based on the game against Israel and the first 35 minutes of the Russia game I would say that both Lampard and Rooney should have to make do with a place on the bench when they come back from injury.

[loz]

What can I say Sergey other than you were humped tonight. That was a far more one sided encounter then I ever expected. Apart from 10 minutes or so in the second half when Russia raised there game a little and seemed to catch England out by shifting to a 3-4-3 formation (I was wondering at that point whether Mclaren would be found out by failing miserabkly to react to it) it was a very comfortable game for England.

Barry again very good, Heskey a handful, JT very very solid and Michael Owen once again showing why a limited number of us (err think it was me, G4, Pauly...anyone else?) have always backed him as comfortably England's best striker.

Only disappointing performance of the night was probably Cashley who looked a little average on too many occasions.

Lampard, Rooney, Beckham, Neville, Hargreaves and Carrick have no place in the next England team I'm afraid.

[g3.7]

barry was great. that's the peformance that in theory carrick is in the squad for... happy for the guy as he's always been a good player (better than keiran richardson for example).

marlon harewood and darius vassel remain better than owen.

cash, unfortunately, isn't a good defender.

gerrard was decent, gave the ball away a little too often, but yeah I'd agree we should probably keep the same 11.

emile heskey has been strangely not awful. a mystery.

[jack h]

We were quite comfortable in the end, their goal might have had a big impact on the game but i think we would have won anway.

Barry was good and Owen took the goals well.

SWP wasnt as good as the the other night and Joe was so unlucky with his booking because neither tackles were fouls.

Gerrard as usual did nothing though everyone will still call for Lampards head

[The Brit]

how many shots did stevie me mis-hit tonight, how many passes went awry...mmm...if that was lamps....

[ethicalstrategy]

Well I am a firm believer in sticking with the players that are delivering for you and based on the game against Israel and the first 35 minutes of the Russia game I would say that both Lampard and Rooney should have to make do with a place on the bench when they come back from injury.

Nah! stick Stevie Me on the bench and let Frank show him how to hit a cow's arse with a banjo

Barry definitely did well tonight and against Israel but I didn't see him do anything that Frank doesn't do week in, week out.

It was a great result tonight and overall we did play well but if you look at both Owen's goals neither came from any creative play from England. Both were loose balls that fell kindly and which were dispatched with a huge amount of class by Owen even though he had an unfeasible amount of time and space on each occasion.

I seem to remember that we have been playing without him at international level for just about 2 years. I just hope he stays fit because it won't matter who plays in midfield for us if he is missing.

[The Moos]

how many shots did stevie me mis-hit tonight, how many passes went awry...mmm...if that was lamps....

Oh, no no no. Don't you see? It was all Lamps fault that Stevie missed all those passes and shots. If Lamps hadn't been injured (shame on him) he could have played and if he could have played then Gerrard would have been better. Or else we would all have been looking at Lamps complaining on all the bad things he did that we wouldn't notice the less than good performance from Mr. Gerrard

[BlueBeard]

Michael Owen once again showing why a limited number of us (err think it was me, G4, Pauly...anyone else?) have always backed him as comfortably England's best striker.

Apart from the two goals, I thought Owen had a poor game. He never got the ball under control, tried to take on players and didn't succeed once, and generally looked crap. Even the goals were easy - I can't believe the amount of time and space that Owen was given in a competetive international match. When he received the ball he had time to sit down and do the Times crossword before putting the ball in the net. Still, it's not really relevant - it's only a matter of time before he's injured again.

Heskey on the other hand proved me and a hell of a lot of others wrong - he did fairly well, though a lot of his flicked headers were aimless. I've always been an advocate of a 'little & large' pairing up front, ala Dixon/Speedie, and though Heskey is never gonna score many goals, he'll aways be a nuisance for defenders. I'm not sure when it happened, but Heskey seems to have lost a large part of his natural ability - the ability to spend at least 40% of the game on his arse. Someone, somewhere, has coached the bloke to actually stay on his feet for most of the time

Gareth Barry was by far and away the best player on the pitch last night, I've rated him highly for a long time and it's good to see him finally get a decent chance. JT looked a lot better than in the Israel game, while SWP & Joey did OK.

All in all, a good performance by England, though Cashley, Ferdinand & Gerrard all looked very average (and that's being kind)

oh, and the booking for Joey was f*ckin' ridiculous

[loz]

I would have to disagree on Owen's performance Bluebeard. OK when he was out on the wing and tried to take on the full back then he failed but that has never been a strong point of Owen's game.

However other than the two goals (which although he did get a lot of space did still requires a fair degree of composure) I thought he had a fine all round game. His movement was excellent, he made space for himself time and time again, he played off the shoulder of the last defender very effectively (in a Crespo kind of way) and he linked up with the likes of Joe, SWP and Gerrard well when he came deeper.

[loz]

Maybe Hiddink is going to be our next manager. He certainly has Jose's ability to see an entirely different game to everyone else

"We forced England to play on the counter-attack at their home ground, but we could not finish off our chances."

[Tim]

I do think it is worth reiterating that although Barry has played well in the last two games, Stevie Me has been solid but nothing special, and I think (not that it will happen) that a swap of him for Lamps would actually see us with more of a goal threat from midfield, which we will need against the top teams, as big Emile is never going to score many at international level.

If St. Stevie gets his chance to shine and doesn't take it, then why shouldn't Lamps have his turn?

[Jack]

Lamps in and Gerrard out? It'll never happen! John Motson nearly wet himself everytime Lickle Stevie got the ball, regardless of the outcome of his possession.

The 'excuse' will be that Gerrard and Barry have worked a good partnership in the two games. Estonia are up next so I expect the team to remain roughly the same - McClaren biggest problem will be who partners Owen. When Rooney is fit will he have the bollocks to leave him out and play Heskey instead. I doubt it.

I've said for years (to any poor bugger who'll listen to my droning voice!) that England should play an 'English' style - widemen, ball winners in midfield and a BIG LUMP UP FRONT! England would have won the World Cup if they'd had the equivalent of a Drogba. Heskey is the nearest thing they have - he lacks the goals but Owen makes up for that. Everyone seems to think it's pre-historic to play that way but I'll tell you what, none of the so-called more technical sides (Holland, Germany, Italy, Portugal) like it when England play that way - it scares the doo-do out of them!

Lamps has had a bit of a wake-up call now. We all know the character of the man and he'll be happy that the team has won but he'll be busting a gut to get back in, and that can only be good for us as Chelsea fans. If Lamps has another level I think this'll push him toward it.

One last thing - SWP and Joey Cole were outstanding as widemen for England. Malouda was pants against Scotland (from the bits I saw) and has contributed to 180 minutes without a goal. If Mourinho doesn't start Joey and SWP on Saturday I think he'll be making a massive mistake. I don't think anyone can justify Malouda starting ahead of Joe Cole again.

Oh, and get well soon Bridgey!

<------That's for you, Arseley

[Enrico]

loz you have to remember Bluebeard has no love for Owen.

A couple of questions for you guys.

1. Do you think the results (and performances) in the last two games are good enough, better than expected or at least an improvement from before?

2. Since he is getting results, wouldn't McClaren be justified to keep this line-up (which of course means the exclusion of Lampard, and Beckham)?

[Elliott]

Of course the two results are much better than expected; I had my doubts that we might not even be able to beat Isreal. Our play had got so predictable and lifeless, that it was very possible.

The Russia game, esp the first half, was the best i have seen England play since beating Argentina in the 3-2 friendly. The tempo was there, the pressing was there, all the players seemed to have an understanding of each other, and we no longer looked one dimensional; The variations of attack were superb. For me, Richards, and Barry have been revelations, whilst Shaun's good form continues, and Emile is clearly helping to get the best out of Owen.

Unless something goes seriously wrong, McClaren has to leave the team as it is. That goes for Beckham, Lamps, Neville, and Rooney.

The team comes first, and whatever it is, it clearly seems to be working.

Will McClaren have the balls to do it? That's the real question.