venom2011

Upgrade being the operative word - we need to be able to kill games so: Winger/10: Someone along the lines of Chiesa if he returns in good shape. He would be great in a variety of systems (with energy to burn) and is a constant goal threat. CM: A creative playmaker. We don't have a single player who can match the likes of KDB, Kane, TAA, Pogba creatively and it shows in tight matches. Long gone are the days of OHM or Hazard and Fabregas. Last one depends on whether we get the first two right. Because as Tuchel says, the current state/evolution of our team means we can't afford to play without high intensity. If we do, we are half the side and struggle to create decent opportunities. That's essentially what feeds into the mismatch between Lukaku and the current setup. But if we somehow can come close to replacing Hazard and Fabregas, then a striker like Lukaku could a much more viable option. I think Lukaku is a better striker than say Diego Costa but what they have/had to work with is vastly different. Also, we need a backup LB (Emerson is fine) and a starting DM (both) with recovery pace. We need to be less hamstrung against counters.

Ziyech actually has scored worldies recently and Pulisic has been better than both. Mount has been anonymous for quite a while and even more frustrating has been the quality of his set pieces. His ability to press well is pretty much the only thing keeping him in the side at the moment.

There was no mention in my post about not building on these structures. That is a given and not worth mentioning. It goes without saying that you have to keep something in order to build on it. And it was more in relation to support structures (staff, policies) than physical ones. What is the point in building a new youth academy or stadium if the new owners let go of Neil Bath and Marina (assuming she wants to stay) - both have been 1st class in their roles.

Many of the best owners didn't have that knowhow but surrounded themselves with the right people. I'm not a fan of the Candy PR push but he has said he'll keep the existing structures which would be great.

I think it's a pretty good collection of bidders considering the timing of the sale. Both Candy and Saudi Media have said all the right things regarding stadium development so I'm quite excited.

I'm not too fussed as long as the new owners keep the current structure (staff) for at least 12 months, then reassess, are prepared to invest in the next transfer window, and they are committed to the stadium rebuild. The other point to consider is that the possibility of a super league is again on the horizon, which would be a carrot for some bidders.

Don't get me wrong as he's generally been woeful, but his last two late cameos have been pretty good I thought. He seemed to be better with his hold up play (using his body better) and his touch/control looks sharper. Would actually like to see him get a few more minutes as a sub as long as he keeps it up.

The amount of times I've seen him remonstrate because players were not aggressive with their passing or off-the-ball movement indicates the opposite. Over Tuchel's tenure our chance creation hasn't come from consistent individual play. We don't have a single KDB, Grealish, Pogba, Bruno, TAA etc. Our chance creation comes almost wholly from the system he created. Competent wing backs are crucial to this system. A forward who can harass and press is crucial. Right now we have neither and its effect is plain to see.

This is actually the underlying issue with Lukaku situation. So we as a team play worse with him in the starting XI, but it's not because he's bad. At our best under Tuchel, we press high and are very aggressive - aiming for high ball recovery. We create more than enough chances so that whenever there was a bad patch, the solution in everyone's mind was: just buy a goal scorer. But there are different ways of creating chances. You can do it through technical precision (Fabregas, KDB, Hazard) or through aggression if you lack the former (which we obviously do). Now you pop Lukaku in the team and we lose much of the aggression and high ball recoveries. You need the technical precision to make the most of his abilities but as I've said many times before, these guys can barely weight a pass correctly (again as evidenced by the Lukaku-Ziyech argument at half time).

Whoa that's a bit too far.... Lukaku has a family man.

They weren’t inverted, that would’ve been the case if they were swapped. The reason he had them that way was most likely because we have less natural width in attacking areas with Alonso and Azpi. So Ziyech and Pulisic could more easily find Lukaku with crosses and through-balls without coming inside, which City prefers. This is all tactically sound and just like in the first loss to City, almost everything he decides makes sense - we are simply lacking severely in consistent execution.

Well it's not like all of them have been proven in this league and are just now struggling - that is when you can question the coaching, system, environment etc. All I see is a group of attackers who consistently make bad decisions and exhibit technical failures. The system has nothing to do with Timo missing 20 sitters or Ziyech regularly overweighting a ball so much, the flash would struggle to get on the end of it. But it's reasonable to expect it from the likes of Mount, CHO, Havertz as they are younger and less experienced. The bigger issue is that the others have been just as bad. Werner is stealing a living at this point, Ziyech is clearly not cut out for this level and Pulisic... I'd still keep around as he can be useful. So there is not a single one that offers anything close to the best of City and Liverpool. I've simply never seen a collection like this at the club - guys who can't even weight a simple pass correctly in a crucial moment. Even the likes of Kalou and Malouda would be an upgrade on this lot.

I've been trying to put my finger on it all season but this game confirmed it for me - he's just completely lost his acceleration and change of pace. It makes his dribbling ineffective for the most part, much the same as Hazard these days. Konate almost made him look like Jorginho in a sprint.

He has full rights to my firstborn.

Well it depends on the system and the results really. E.g. Ronaldo is almost pure productivity - he doesn't shine in system-specific areas. If he played in a Pep system, that would be problematic. But we create more than enough chances for our forwards to be more productive (goals, assists, and key passes). By the end of this season it will be 2-3 years of mediocrity really. The only forwards I give a pass to are Lukaku, Havertz, Mount and Odoi. The latter 3 are on the young side and inconsistencies are natural. Lukaku just needs to be fit and available. The rest are easily replaceable and we should be looking for a forward that can match the ability of the best City and Liverpool have to offer. We are currently nowhere near. At around the 35th min vs Everton, Ziyech had a simple ball on the edge of the box to play in RLC 1v1 with the keeper. Instead he took a potshot that ended up well wide. It must be incredibly frustrating for Tuchel to see that time and time again.

Still on this? Nothing 'suits' our attackers. Other than Lukaku, who is still adjusting to the team and vice versa, there is not a single attacker who has a good history of playing in a *top* league. So there is no way you can possibly claim that their profligacy and inept decision-making is in any way related to the system. It would be different if you have say Mane and Salah performing poorly over some time - then Klopp would justifiably consider tweaking his system. When/if more of these attackers start doing the right things consistently, I'm sure Tuchel will consider some options.

Yes there is a huge body of evidence - with an almost completely different squad (that had strengths in different areas). As I said, Tuchel no doubt wants to play 4-3-3. Personally, I would like to see it go that way as well. Let's see what happens as he gets more opportunity to mould the squad.

You can continue to wait, as that is a very different question to - did Sarri have 'worse defensive players' than Tuchel? I get what you're saying about the attack, but I'm of the opposite opinion and am much more inclined to blame the personnel. Blame is a bit strong though - Mount, Havertz, Cho, are all young and understandably inconsistent. Werner and Ziyech are inexperienced in the PL. None of them (our attacking core) have been consistently impressive. They are miles behind the attacking cores of Liverpool and City no matter which combination or formation you select. Our competitive advantage is simply not in attack. It lies in the experience we have at the back, and if you can cover for the physical weaknesses of Jorginho, Alonso, Azpi etc through a certain system, then TT is simply maximising our competitive advantage. Lastly, our attack 'works' fine. We create a ton of chances and big chances. But most importantly, what can't be accounted for in stats is decisiveness and decision-making . At the start of the 2nd half against Zenit there were immediately two opportunities to play our forwards into v.good goalscoring positions. City and Pool play those balls. Our attackers held the ball and eventually spread it wide.

No. Sarri had Kante, Azpi, Jorginho, Alonso, still somewhat in their prime. And the experience of Luiz and Cahill. Rudiger had a decent season. But more importantly Sarri benefitted from having the best player in the league at left wing. And two stalwarts in support of him. Hazard aside, if just 2018-2019 Pedro and Willian were here they'd be starting over this lot.

That formation and personnel are almost exactly what started the rot for Lampard. You can't be good in defensive transition with Jorginho, Azpi and - to a lesser extent - Silva. So Lamps, knowing this, chose to drop Jorgi and play Kante in the 6 position which just caused new problems. Tuchel would undoubtedly prefer playing 4-3-3. But the reason why we won the CL and are fighting for the PL is he, unlike Super Frank, chose to put that aside and picks a style that works for the majority of our senior players.

Neither can I. And yet if they had him, he'd be starting over Rashford.

Agreed in terms of playing as striker, Werner has been undoubtedly terrible. As a wide forward he's been good though and he was a big part of the CL success. For large periods when Ziyech was missing, Pulisic was injured, Havertz went for a walk - he put in good shifts week after week. Tuchel never gave him any favours and we certainly don't score the CL final goal without him.

We just played a team that cost more than ours, who would absolutely love to start him on the left. Timo is fine. He's a bit limited, not a 50m player, and not a main striker. But he has value even when he's not in great form - because he works hard. He's a good rotation option.

Agreed. Not awful but waaaaay too passive for such a big game. Off the ball in attack he was a complete passenger which is unacceptable really. But still he needed this chance to see if he can be trusted in these games and now we have our answer.

Good points. I've heard most of the TV pundits refer to this game as the reason why we could fall short but the reality is that a very specific set of circumstances fell perfectly for City to win that game. We started a new formation for the first time under Tuchel because it worked so well in the 2nd half vs Spurs. And we were light in attack due to injuries and form so it was a reasonable decision. Werner and Lukaku partnering for the first time. Alonso started at LB (as expected) and James had an early injury. That meant our wing-backs couldn't beat City's press or offer anything in transition. When we stretched 5 across the midfield, 4 of them were Alonso, Kante, Jorginho and Azpi. Not one of those can beat an average press, nevermind a great one. And lastly Werner as a 2nd striker is horrible at doing that as well and playing with his back to goal. If you trade those for (fully fit) Chilly, James, Ruben for Kante and then Kai or Mount for Werner - it's a totally different game as we can now bypass their midfield with relative ease. But hey.....we move!