Diving

[sexelk]

for me there is nothing wrong with the occasional dive. if you get caught you rightly get booked

trying to con the ref is all part of the game. it's no different to claiming for a goal kick when you know the ball has come off you last

it might make ref's jobs that wee bit harder but they're already sh*te at their jobs so it doesn't make that much difference

as for eduardo's dive last night - slap it up ye boruc ya fat mess hahaha ;)

Edited August 27, 2009 by ethicalstrategy

[BLUENUT]

for me there is nothing wrong with the occasional dive. if you get caught you rightly get booked

trying to con the ref is all part of the game. it's no different to claiming for a goal kick when you know the ball has come off you last

it might make ref's jobs that wee bit harder but they're already sh*te at their jobs so it doesn't make that much difference

as for eduardo's dive last night - slap it up ye boruc ya fat mess hahaha ;)

If it was Drogba.....West Ham and Milwall would be off the back pages!!!!!

[Mod]

Arsene actually sees this one:

"He went down, for what reason I do not know. Having seen it again on television, it doesn't look a penalty."

"I do not think he (Eduardo) would have complained if the penalty was not given.

"Is it acceptable? I never asked in my life any guy to dive to win a penalty but sometimes the players go down because there is no other way to escape the tackling of the keeper. Sometimes they dive."

So it's fine when one of your own do it Mr.Wenger!

[BLUENUT]

Arsene actually sees this one:

So it's fine when one of your own do it Mr.Wenger!

Unlike Drogba's freekick awarded at the Emirates where he was actually clipped by the player, last season.

He couldn't explain the other 3 goals they gave away that easily though

[aChelseaSupporter]

I think this whole Eduardo dive thing has gotten a bit out of hand tbh...I mean, ok, he dived, he's a cheat etc etc, not the first time something like that happened. Ronaldo and Stevie starfish have done it alot more at more crutial times. I don't think its going to stop anytime soon unless video evidence is introduced...but to be asking for a ban? Isn't that a bit much? ;)

Oh and while we're on the topic of diving...Many people claim that drogba "dives"...can someone pm me a link or video with evidence? cause tbh I always thought he just fell down a bit easily, albeit with contact, rather than "dive", and it really does p*ss me off when they compare him to the likes of those mentioned above (ie starfish and cronaldo) :D

[sexelk]

I mean, ok, he dived, he's a cheat etc etc

i don't think that is a word that can be associated with football (unless someone is on performance enhancing drugs or something)

a cheat is someone who breaks the rules. if the ref is stupid enough to fall for a bit of simulation then why not chance your arm. u'll get booked if your caught out so it's not like it's cheating

[Ruh Buh Juh]

i don't think that is a word that can be associated with football (unless someone is on performance enhancing drugs or something)

a cheat is someone who breaks the rules. if the ref is stupid enough to fall for a bit of simulation then why not chance your arm. u'll get booked if your caught out so it's not like it's cheating

Doesn't stop Alan Green thinking it's cheating when it's against his beloved Liverpool.

[sexelk]

point proven - alan green is a gimp

he gives a bad reputation to the beautiful norn irish accent ;)

[aChelseaSupporter]

Isn't that the correct word thats thrown around these days to those who dive? "cheats"? ;)

Anyway, RBJ got it spot on, and posted what I was going to post :D

If its done by a rival team, its cheating, if its by our team, its clever.

[Maksimov]

a cheat is someone who breaks the rules. if the ref is stupid enough to fall for a bit of simulation then why not chance your arm. u'll get booked if your caught out so it's not like it's cheating

It's only cheating if you're caught doing it, eh? It's not always easy to see if someone is cheating when the game is being played at a high tempo and I think it's cheating if you're trying to get away with something that's a bookable offence. You can be booked for diving(or "accentuating the fall", as some people call it) and if you manage to fool the referee, you're cheating, simple as that.

[moi]

It's only cheating if you're caught doing it, eh? It's not always easy to see if someone is cheating when the game is being played at a high tempo and I think it's cheating if you're trying to get away with something that's a bookable offence. You can be booked for diving(or "accentuating the fall", as some people call it) and if you manage to fool the referee, you're cheating, simple as that.

Exactly, Maksimov. Otherwise it's like saying a lie is the truth if nobody recognises it as a lie! The person lying always knows he's lying, and the person cheating always knows he's cheating.

[bonetti]

for me there is nothing wrong with the occasional dive. if you get caught you rightly get booked

trying to con the ref is all part of the game. it's no different to claiming for a goal kick when you know the ball has come off you last

it might make ref's jobs that wee bit harder but they're already sh*te at their jobs so it doesn't make that much difference

as for eduardo's dive last night - slap it up ye boruc ya fat mess hahaha :P

Sounds like you are saying that results should be decided on who has the most convincing actors in the team

Couldn't disagree more - I hate cheating whether its our players or not

[BlueBeard]

Sounds like you are saying that results should be decided on who has the most convincing actors in the team

Couldn't disagree more - I hate cheating whether its our players or not

With you all the way there - any player who dives or cheats is a despicable little c*nt so far as I'm concerned, and I include Chelsea players in that.

[Chippy]

I can't stand cheating in any way shape or form and more annoying is when players go down hoping to fool the Ref when there is still a reasonable chance that if they stayed on their feet they could have made something of the chance.

[loz]

I hate diving passionately, for me it is the largest contributor to ruining the pleasure I get from the game (and this is irreszpective of whether it is by an opponent or one of our own) but until people point the finger firmly at their own and punishments are severe it is never going to go away.

Take the Eduardo dive - Celtic fans outraged but if it waws 0-0 on aggregate with 5 minutes to go and McGeady won a penalty in the same way then they would have happily taken it (and the same goes for the vast majority of fans of every club)

I have said this before and will say it again.

For me diving for a penalty should be a straight red card offence. If a professional foul by a defender merits a straight red on the grounds that it denies a clear goal scoring opportunity, then I think a foul to create a clear goal scoring opportunity should be treated similarly.

However this obviously doesn't deal with the issue of dives that the ref doesn't spot (and lets be honest I can't really blame refs for not spotting a lot of them) - for this I would be more than happy to see retrospective punishment taken against players.

OK you can't go back and reverse a result on the grounds it shouldn't have been a penalty in the first place (and obviously the natural progression for this discussion is the argument about instant video replays) however I would like to see hefty suspensions handed out to players who are found to be guilty of diving, and I would like to see the suspensions increase each time they did it.

For example first offence, 3 match ban, then 5, 7 etc, maybe topping out at a 7 match ban. Once you hit the 7 match ban then you would get 7 every time you were found guilty of diving after that (slate wiped clean at the start of every season) Seems a lot I know however I think we are at a stage where the punishments need to be that severe to make players consider if it is worth it.

Just now you can take a dive and the best that can happen is a match winning penalty and the worst is a booking - that is never going to stop players from doing it. I also don't think the threat of a one match ban will stop players either.

The other thing I would consider is to suspend one of the matches so that the player has to serve it against the team he offended against. i.e. if Gerrard did it against us then one of his games would be the next time we played Liverpool. There are some problems with that idea in that the ban may actually overlap seasons or it may be against a team that got relegated and therefore the two clubs may not meet again for a very long time but I'm sure there are ways around that.

As you can see my ideas are not that well thought out!! I guess I am just saying I want far harsher penalties (and I certainly don't want them to be financial ones, they must be suspensions)

[Chippy]

I don't know if you allready know about this..it might help

Reuters - 4 hours ago

MONACO - UEFA's plan to experiment with five-man refereeing teams at Europa League matches this season could prove to be the most significant change to officiating for 100 years, UEFA president Michel Platini said on Thursday.

This season's Europa League matches - the rebranded UEFA Cup competition - will feature an additional assistant referee (AAR) positioned beside each goal, specifically to help the match referee judge whether players have dived in the box, fouled each other at corners, or if the ball has crossed the goal-line.

"Things have not improved in refereeing for more than 100 years. I am against video technology because that will take the human face away from the game, but this system will help the referee make the right decision," Platini told a news conference.

"The tests we have run in private and youth matches have been very successful. Players have stopped pulling shirts and cheating because they now know they can be seen. I am very optimistic this experiment will prove to be very successful."

The AAR will not have a flag but will communicate with the referee by microphone and headset.

A demonstration video shown to reporters at the president's news conference on Thursday showed that the position of the referee will change, at for example, corners, where he will have a better view of play from the right-hand side of the penalty area, while the AAR and, as before, the assistant on the line will aid his decision-making.

If the experiment is a success it is likely to be sanctioned by FIFA and the International Board, the law-making arm of FIFA, next March and be introduced into the game at large within the next season or two.

Platini, who has admitted "diving once or twice when I was a player," said the AARs would help banish simulation, or diving, from the game.

"It could be the most significant change in the way the game is officiated for over 100 years," he said. "The role of the AAR, or additional assistant referee is solely to help the referee - an extra pair of eyes besides each goal.

"It is not humanly possible for a referee to see the whole pitch and see everything that is happening at once." Platini added.

"One day players will give up simulating because referees will see them. For years players have cheated because the referees were not of a good enough quality.

"I am convinced if you have referees close by that will prevent players from simulating and players will take the right decision. I have always said better to have more referees than a multiplication of disciplinary procedures."

The draw for the Europa League will take place on Friday with the group stages of the competition beginning in mid-September.

[Guest bigjockknew]

It was a dive, a cheat and effectively killed the tie so potentially a massive effect on both clubs. Boruc was naive possible they way he went in and presented the opportunity but a despicable thing to do in any case. Its not as if they even needed to do it, a talented player like that cheats against an SPL team? why not just try harder and score a proper goal. An own goal, freaky deflection and a cheated penalty - if thats how they want to play and progress then I hope they keep their whinging mouths shut when it happens to them.

Gordon Smith of the SFA has asked for an enquiry and a two match ban for Eduardo but anyway - all diving is cheating, remember how cheated we were after the Barca game and how we still feel about that

[Ruh Buh Juh]

I don't know if you allready know about this..it might help

Reuters - 4 hours ago

MONACO - UEFA's plan to experiment with five-man refereeing teams at Europa League matches this season could prove to be the most significant change to officiating for 100 years, UEFA president Michel Platini said on Thursday.

This season's Europa League matches - the rebranded UEFA Cup competition - will feature an additional assistant referee (AAR) positioned beside each goal, specifically to help the match referee judge whether players have dived in the box, fouled each other at corners, or if the ball has crossed the goal-line.

"Things have not improved in refereeing for more than 100 years. I am against video technology because that will take the human face away from the game, but this system will help the referee make the right decision," Platini told a news conference.

"The tests we have run in private and youth matches have been very successful. Players have stopped pulling shirts and cheating because they now know they can be seen. I am very optimistic this experiment will prove to be very successful."

The AAR will not have a flag but will communicate with the referee by microphone and headset.

A demonstration video shown to reporters at the president's news conference on Thursday showed that the position of the referee will change, at for example, corners, where he will have a better view of play from the right-hand side of the penalty area, while the AAR and, as before, the assistant on the line will aid his decision-making.

If the experiment is a success it is likely to be sanctioned by FIFA and the International Board, the law-making arm of FIFA, next March and be introduced into the game at large within the next season or two.

Platini, who has admitted "diving once or twice when I was a player," said the AARs would help banish simulation, or diving, from the game.

"It could be the most significant change in the way the game is officiated for over 100 years," he said. "The role of the AAR, or additional assistant referee is solely to help the referee - an extra pair of eyes besides each goal.

"It is not humanly possible for a referee to see the whole pitch and see everything that is happening at once." Platini added.

"One day players will give up simulating because referees will see them. For years players have cheated because the referees were not of a good enough quality.

"I am convinced if you have referees close by that will prevent players from simulating and players will take the right decision. I have always said better to have more referees than a multiplication of disciplinary procedures."

The draw for the Europa League will take place on Friday with the group stages of the competition beginning in mid-September.

Anything to get round bringing technology into football...

[aChelseaSupporter]

I agree with most of your points loz but...

For me diving for a penalty should be a straight red card offence. If a professional foul by a defender merits a straight red on the grounds that it denies a clear goal scoring opportunity, then I think a foul to create a clear goal scoring opportunity should be treated similarly.

Here, I think you're being a bit too harsh. I wouldn't agree with a red card offence for a dive as I think a yellow card is sufficient enough, especially if its during a match. Refs make mistakes and if they award a red card for a dive when actually there was contact and it was a penalty then people will still be outraged.

Also, sometimes, forwards fall down anticipating contact and if they get a red just to try and avoind injury then I think thats a bit harsh (ofcourse, after a player falls down he can always stand up immediately, raise his hand, and explain to the ref he just thought he was going to get tackled)

As for the bans for guilty diving, they might work after the match is reviewed, but again, I think you're being a bit too harsh (sorry! )

imo it would work well enough for a 1 match ban, and increased gradually, rather than 3. Players will surely take it as seriously as getting a red card in a game, especially if the dive was during a semi final or quarter final.

[loz]

I don't think a one match ban would be enough of a deterrent. If we are playing Liverpool and our next game is against Burnley then I think Drogba (or whoever) would take the risk of missing that game. If he is looking at missing say 5 games then that may make him think again.

As for a straight red being harsh because the ref might make a mistake - well you can say that for every straight red card offence.

[aChelseaSupporter]

I don't think a one match ban would be enough of a deterrent. If we are playing Liverpool and our next game is against Burnley then I think Drogba (or whoever) would take the risk of missing that game. If he is looking at missing say 5 games then that may make him think again.

As for a straight red being harsh because the ref might make a mistake - well you can say that for every straight red card offence.

hmm...you might be right there about the one game not being enough...(and diving against liverpool is very tempting )

But with the straight red...I think awarding a red for a dive when there was contact is like adding insult to injury...not only did he not get the penalty, but he got a red as well...

But again, you're right, it can be send for every other straight red offence.

[rahul]

I heard there's a practice in German league in which the ref asks the player himself if he had dived, or was there any contact. If the player says there was a contact and he had not dived, a penalty is awarded but he knows very well that the incident will be reviewed and if found lying, he faces a 5 game ban or some such. If he was right though, everyone's happy. Worth a try imo.

Source: A mailer in F365 mailbox. Sorry for nicking that one mate!

Edited August 28, 2009 by rahuldotchelsea

[sexelk]

trying to con the ref is a part of the game and it always will be. you rightly run the risk of getting booked but that is as far as it should go

[Maksimov]

trying to con the ref is a part of the game and it always will be.

It's a shame that cheating is regarded as an integral part of the game. I don't think it needs to be that way, although I don't know how you could remove it from the game when the players learn the culture of cheating at such a young age and sometimes are even encouraged to do so. I mean, sometimes you have to wonder how some players manage to stay on their feet on a windy day.

[moi]

trying to con the ref is a part of the game and it always will be. you rightly run the risk of getting booked but that is as far as it should go

It is emphatically NOT a part of the game. The game is as written in the rules of the game. Cheating, which is what trying to con the ref is, is a deviation from the game.