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Making a Murderer Post Chat

Zola
in Entertainment

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This thread is intended for those who have finished watching the show.

SPOILER ALERT - There will be spoilers

Starting next line.

Whats your theory?

As posted in another thread my thoughts are:

I think the police put the bullets etc there to ensure a conviction. I don't think the police killed her, but I suspect it might have been one of the two brothers, who both have convictions for sexual assault and harassment of women. And there is a motive there - family business feud and potential jealousy over the impending payout from the first jail sentence.

Edited by Zola



Good thread.

 

First of all. Brendan Dassey is innocent. He was used and mistreated by police in interegations, his first lawyer and O'Kelly and the whole thing makes my blood boil.
His "confessions" was a product of police brutality in lack of a better word. They just kept going and asking the same questions a million times until Dassey in the end just made some sh*t up to get out of there. He was wondering if he could go back to school in 30 minutes after "confessing" to murder, rape and burning Teresa Halbach for christs sake. He had no idea what was going on. And you can't blame him eighter when his IQ is below 70 and he is therefore retarded.

Not even a hint of evidence that anything of the sort took place eighter. If he raped her, stabbed her and slit her throat in bed, well then how the hell would you not find even a trace of blood, hair, sweat on the sheets or whatever in a carpeted house.

 

Poor Brendan was just a piece in the countys game to get Steven Avery convicted and how they can live with themselves having put a mentally challenged 16 year old boy in prison for something he did not do i don't know. That goes for Mark Wiegert, Fassbender, Kantz, O'Kelly and his first lawyer Len. Colossal c*nts the lot of them.

 

Steven Avery i'll come back too.

A scary eye opener into how poorly investigations can be carried out.

Ignoring the verdict, the way in which parts of the investigation were conducted is astounding.

That members of the public were allowed onto private land of a potential crime scene amazes me.

A scary eye opener into how poorly investigations can be carried out.

Ignoring the verdict, the way in which parts of the investigation were conducted is astounding.

That members of the public were allowed onto private land of a potential crime scene amazes me.

 

 

Yep, incredible.

 

I believe someone on the Avery-farm murdered Teresa Halbach but i am not at all convinced it was Steven Avery. He may have done it as there are leads i believe to be genuine that leads us in that direction but there are also many, many leads that would suggest otherwise. Therefore i cannot say Steven Avery did it without reasonable doubt and he should therefore be a free man.

 

First of all: Evidence was planted. They key was ovbious, suddenly appeared out of nowhere on the seventh(!) search of the trailer. Coincidentally the one time James Lenk and Andrew Colborn also were in there. I believe they had the key, wiped it clean of any evidence since they would have contaminted it themselves and added Steven Averys DNA back on it. If not, why wouldn't Teresas DNA be on the key? Does not make sense.

 

Same with the bullet. The garage were also searched multiply times before a bullet appeared out of nowhere after Lenk and Colborn had been in there. They are greasy as hell and also had every motive to frame Avery as they were involved in a lawsuit that would have cost them their job and reputation.

 

Just the fact they were on the scene, without signing in, in the log even gives the evidence they found zero credibility.

 

And then the blood in the car. Normaly a killer piece of evidence but even here there is indications that something has been done. Colborn calling in the cars number plate two days before it was found for example, could he have been standing by the car then? And then we have James Lenk who knew where he could find liquid blood from Steven Avery. When checked the seal was broken on the case it was packaged in and there was even a hole in the seal on the vail. And yes they did test it for EDTA but that was sketchy at best. They tested the blood from the car but they never compared it to the blood from the vail which seems like an ovbious thing to do. Since we basically know Lenk/Colborn planted the key/bullet i would not put it past them to plant blood eighter.

 

They found Teresa Halbachs bones in three different locations. One of these locations were at the quarry which are almost two miles away from Steve Averys home where he supposedly burned the body. Why would bones of Halbach be there if Steve did it in his own fire pit?

 

For me there is to many suspicious pieces in this puzzle to be convinced Steven Avery did it. I genuinly think he was framed by the county so they could get him behind bars again and the lawsuit ended. He was an easy target.

 

Steve Avery is also an idiot along with Brendan Dassey. Thats not being rude or trying to put them down but thats what they are in the right sense of the word. IQs around 70 on the both of them.

For them to have done this the way the prosecutors want us to believe they did it they must have been some genius killers that systematicly cleaned the trailer and garage of any trace of evidence such as blood pattern, skin, hair etc. They supposedly did all this while at the same time being colossal idiots just leaving a car sitting in the yard with blood evidence in it, leaving human bones in a pit right infront of his house, not crushing the car in their car-crusher etc. I can't get my head around it. Just doesn't make sense.

 

And no i don't really have any good theory on who did kill Teresa Halbach. I believe someone on the Avery-farm did it but there is also one guy we meet in this series from the outside i find suspicious. And that would be Teresas ex, he should have been checked for an alibi by the police, we know he tampered with evidence by deleting voicemails on Teresas phone by "guessing" her username and password. He was also right in the midst of the search and i just got some wierd vibe coming off him. Not saying he did it at all, but i do think he should have been questioned more then he was.

Edited by Sindre



I think it's blatantly obvious that Brenden was a patsy, and that his own defense lawyer (and his investigator) colluded with the prosecution to ensure that Steven was convicted. The scenes with him being interviewed by the detectives and by the "defense" investigator made me extremely angry; he was obviously just saying whatever they told him to and they didn't seem to care that he was innocent. It's depressing to think that he's probably going to spend most of his life in jail because of them.

 

I'm not so sure about Steven. The state was clearly biased against him but I believe the makers of the documentary were biased the other way. For example, the bit in the first epsiode where they briefly mention something about Steven setting fire to a cat; in the documentary they just skim over it and almost make it sound like an accident, they don't mention that he (supposedly) doused the cat in gasoline and threw it into the bonfire. It's not entirely relevant to the case but torturing animals is a good indicator of a psycho/sociopathic personality. So I'm not sure how reliable the documentary makers' version of events is, and I think it's possible he did murder her and the state conspired to do whatever it took to ensure he was convicted.

 

The way the state handled the investigation and trial was disgusting though. Corrupt through and through. Normally in cases like this the husband/boyfriend is always the first suspect (and for good reason) but they never even considered him. He came across as extremely dodgy during his testimony and appeared to be hiding something.

I too believe Steven Avery was/is a troubled mind as shown by killing his cat in a fire(while drunk though but clearly no excuse), his letters to his first wife and family during his first period in prison and a few other things. But then again, his IQ level is close to that of retardation himself and that you can't really fault him for.

 

He did just get a new lawyer yesterday now though. Not just anyone eighter but Kathleen Zellner who is one of the best apparantly.

 

Will be interesting if she can take this thing to trail again. I think he has a good chance with her.

It's just all so sickening, I'm struggling to put all my thoughts into coherent sentences. I cannot understand how the US Government allowed to this happen, I'm hoping this series leads to Federal activity.



Yeah its just going to get worse and worse the further into it you get MayosNoun.

The documentary was extremely biased towards the defence which I suppose is obvious given it’s following that side of things. I think you need to look at the various older documentaries on this case as well as the countless pieces on the web which delve into the case in far more detail than this Netflix doc goes into. They miss out a bunch of evidence for the state that points to Steve and they completely leave out his issues with anger and violence which is pretty relevant in a murder case.

From everything I have read and watched on this case over the years I do think Steven Avery was involved in this murder, how much so I’m not sure but there is enough evidence there to lead me to that conclusion (The Jury too). That being said I don’t think a trial should have went ahead because the whole thing was a joke and must have been the most amateurish murder investigation on record.

The one I truly feel sorry for is Avery’s young nephew who I’m utterly convinced has nothing to do with what happened and was used as a scape goat and accessory to get Steven convicted. The police and state don’t care about people’s lives if they can get a conviction out of it and save millions of dollars (Avery’s lawsuit case). The boy has clear learning difficulties and was interrogated with no lawyer or parent present, we didn’t get to see those interviews but it’s not hard to break down a fragile mind and get them to bark for you. It was absolutely disgusting.

The justice system in America truly scares me.



I've just finished the final episode. While I'm not 100% sure that Avery didn't kill Theresa, it's obvious that the police tried to frame him for it, either way. 

 

The lawsuit about his previous conviction, the key & bullet magically appearing, the bones being weirdly spread around (and left outside his bedroom) and the car being left on their site (when they have a car crusher) are all factors that point towards him being framed but the blood in the car is the one. No fingerprints at all and a vial of his blood that has clearly had a needle inserted. 

 

Most other stuff has already been covered by comments in the thread but there are a couple of other things that really bothered me:-

 

2 members of the jury including the one that had to leave both said that there were a couple of stubborn members (in the jury) that were not willing to debate the case, and appeared to have already made their decision before the trial had even started. Given what had already gone on, it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for the state to have intervened in some way there. As far as I'm concerned Lenk certainly isn't be above doing something like that.

 

Something that niggled at me, pretty much all the way through the series was how Mike Halbach (Teresa's brother) acted throughout. From the story breaking, through the trial and to the end, he didn't come across as someone who had recently lost his sister. At times he was jovial and seemed very keen to be in front of the camera. His demeanour just didn't sit right with me. I'm not saying that I think he had anything to do with what happened, I was just quite suspicious of him. (probably way off the mark)

 

I felt quite sick when it showed how much weight Brendan had put on during his time in Jail too, particularly when earlier in the episode he had said he lost weight because he was getting picked on for being fat.

 

I've been looking online for more stuff about this, so thought I would share the more interesting stuff I found.

 

Apparently, Kratz tried to subpoena the documentary to stop it being aired which I think speaks volumes. He, like a number of his colleagues, is a human sack of sh*t.

 

Here is an interview with the creators of the documentary. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/11/10748138/netflix-making-a-murderer-review-interview

 

I have only browsed it but here's a part that caught my eye -

 

"We were contacted by a juror [shortly after the series debuted], and this person said that they were not convinced of Steven's guilt but they were scared for their personal safety. They were going to be the ones to hold out for a mistrial. I don't know if something like that would happen in a big city, so maybe that's one example."

 

A video of Dean Strang fairly recently (doesn't really add anything new, but sums up parts of the doc nicely) :- 

 

 

There's a website that is primarily set up by the Avery/Dassey family to raise funds, but there is also some interesting stuff on there. I think I read somewhere that Anonymous were involved in setting up the site. http://www.opaverydassey.com/

 

One other thing, if you watched this then I highly recommend you listen to Serial. It's very similar to this and is a podcast, now in it's second season. Season 1 was about Adnan Syed, a teenager convicted of murdering his girlfriend (in 1999 I think). Season 2 is only a few episodes in and is about the mysterious circumstances around Pvt Bowe Bergdahl's disappearance and capture by Al Qaeda. In my opinion, the best thing about serial that Making a Murderer lacks, is a narrator. It's useful having someone walk you through it and bring up stuff that might be relevant from a few episodes back. This season they also have material such as maps to go with the episodes on their site. https://serialpodcast.org/ 

I also really enjoyed the Serial podcast. It has a lot in common with Making A Murderer, although it's nowhere near as much of a blatant farce of a trial as Steven Avery's case.

 

Back on the subject of Steven Avery, I was reading this list of excluded defence evidence yesterday. Lots of people (including myself) have been suspicious of the amount of information in favour of the prosecution that was left out of the documentary, but that applies to the defence too:

 

 

 

Edited by bluedave

Yesterday I watched all 10 episodes back to back.

 

Answer me these questions if you think he's possibly guilty.

 

Why did Steven not use the car crusher to crush the Toyota ? The way the Toyota was perched on top of a bank, with some branches and wood loosely stacked around the car in what looks like a vain attempt to hide it. But in fact the placement of the car and the half hearted attempt to hide in fact made it stand out more from all the other hundreds of cars on the property. Remember that Steven supposedly went to extreme lengths to destroy the body, why not the Toyota ? It obviously looks like it was meant to be found, in which case Steven Avery should not be the prime suspect, seeing as he was the one who had made the appointment with Miss Halbach.

 

Imagine you are Steven the murderer, you have left DNA evidence all over her body, the only way to get rid is destroy the body totally, so you do that, but then you think about the car, do you crush it ? or hide it on top of a bank with approx 50% of the car covered in peices of wood ?

 

 

Also...

Why no blood splatters anywhere on the property ? None in the supposed murder location in the garage, not one little speck, all that junk and crap in there, and not one little spot of blood could be found. Even a forensic expert couldn't clean up a murder scene like that, not without redecorating to cover up. Do you really think Steven is capable of cleaning up a murder scene to the extent NO blood is found, but several searches later miraculously a .22 bullet is found.

Edited by coco

  • Author

Exactly Coco.

Also 10 hours backt o back, that is serious going. I am sure you were drained after it. So much detail and you gotta pay attention to it all!



 

Something that niggled at me, pretty much all the way through the series was how Mike Halbach (Teresa's brother) acted throughout. From the story breaking, through the trial and to the end, he didn't come across as someone who had recently lost his sister. At times he was jovial and seemed very keen to be in front of the camera. His demeanour just didn't sit right with me. I'm not saying that I think he had anything to do with what happened, I was just quite suspicious of him. (probably way off the mark)

 

 

I know exactly what you mean. 

Exactly Coco.

Also 10 hours backt o back, that is serious going. I am sure you were drained after it. So much detail and you gotta pay attention to it all!

 

It was an amazing 10 hours that I will never forget, takes a lot for me to be engrossed in something that long.

 

Answer me these questions if you think he's possibly guilty.

 

Why did Steven not use the car crusher to crush the Toyota ? The way the Toyota was perched on top of a bank, with some branches and wood loosely stacked around the car in what looks like a vain attempt to hide it. But in fact the placement of the car and the half hearted attempt to hide in fact made it stand out more from all the other hundreds of cars on the property. Remember that Steven supposedly went to extreme lengths to destroy the body, why not the Toyota ?

 

It's possible that he that killed her but the police put the car there, slightly hidden but not so well hidden that people won't find it, to incriminate him.

 

Why no blood splatters anywhere on the property ? None in the supposed murder location in the garage, not one little speck, all that junk and crap in there, and not one little spot of blood could be found. Even a forensic expert couldn't clean up a murder scene like that, not without redecorating to cover up. Do you really think Steven is capable of cleaning up a murder scene to the extent NO blood is found, but several searches later miraculously a .22 bullet is found.

 

It's possible that he killed her elsewhere but the police put the bullet there to incriminate him.

 

I suspect the police did not anticipate that their "investigation" would be ripped apart on TV in front of millions of people, hence the sloppiness of much of the (apparent) fix-up.

 

By the way, I think the trial was a farce and he shouldn't be in prison for that reason, but whether or not he did it we can only speculate.

It's possible that he that killed her but the police put the car there, slightly hidden but not so well hidden that people won't find it, to incriminate him.

 

 

It's possible that he killed her elsewhere but the police put the bullet there to incriminate him.

 

I suspect the police did not anticipate that their "investigation" would be ripped apart on TV in front of millions of people, hence the sloppiness of much of the (apparent) fix-up.

 

By the way, I think the trial was a farce and he shouldn't be in prison for that reason, but whether or not he did it we can only speculate.

 

Yes I agree, but maybe I should have used the word 'probable' instead of 'possible'.

 

That reminds me of the bit when iirc Steve's defence team were trying to get the police officer who was meant to be keeping an eye on the Manitowoc police when they searched Steve's home/garage, and they asked him if it was possible that the officers searching had the opportunity to plant the evidence, he replied yes as he knew he wasn't watching all of the officers all of the time. Then when the DA questioned the same officer, he started saying of course it was possible for the search officers to have the opportunity, but it was also possible aliens planted it.

 

Possible yes, but not probable is it ?



If like me you love watching these kind of documentaries, try these that I have seen and can recommend as they are all quiet shocking.

 

The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst     http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4299972/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

 

Capturing the Friedmans    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0342172/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

 

Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

 

The Overnighters       http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3263996/

Back on topic.

 

So many holes in the prosecutions case.

 

Blaine Dassey testified that his brother, Bobby, was asleep when he got home from school around 3:40 p.m., contradicting Bobby’s testimony that he got up at 2:30 p.m. and saw Teresa headed toward Steven’s trailer.

 

Dean Strang mentioned that there were little drops off deer blood all over Avery’s garage, essentially debunking the theory that they could have cleaned all the blood evidence out of the garage, since had they cleaned it that thoroughly, there wouldn’t have been any deer blood.

 

On the leg irons/handcuffs from Avery’s house: They tested those for DNA and found a mixture of DNA from two or more people. They confirmed Avery to be a source of one of the matches. Most importantly, they excluded Teresa’s DNA as a match.

s-KEN-KRATZ-large.jpg

 

Kratz also stated in the subpoena that he wanted every recorded conversation they had with Avery, not realising that - as every phone call out of prison is recorded by the state - he already had access to their material.

“So our argument in the motion to quash was [that] the state does not need these materials from us because the state already has these materials. When considering that, it's interesting because then you think, 'Okay, what's really the real reason behind the subpoena?’

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/making-a-murderer-steven-averys-prosecutors-tried-to-stop-the-netflix-show-being-made-a6807281.html



If like me you love watching these kind of documentaries, try these that I have seen and can recommend as they are all quiet shocking.

 

The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst     http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4299972/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

 

Capturing the Friedmans    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0342172/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

 

Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

 

The Overnighters       http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3263996/

 

I've seen The Jinx and it is excellent.

 

Something else that I've seen recommended in quite a few places is The Staircase. I've not seen it yet myself but it's definitely on my to-watch list.

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