15 minutes ago, Argo said:

It would be quite fitting of Carlos league record if he lost a supposed one man league to a relitive unknown yet again.

Whose the other unknown?

His league record should be better, it's crazy to think it isn't. Like his second season at Real, they should have won it that season but they blew it.

 

2 hours ago, Huttsey said:

I suppose the only difference is that Red Bull are hated more than Bayern in Germany. There will be no neutrals supporting them. 

Is that because they're a fairly new team? Crazy to think they haven't been around that long 

Just now, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Whose the other unknown?

His league record should be better, it's crazy to think it isn't. Like his second season at Real, they should have won it that season but they blew it.

 

Is that because they're a fairly new team? Crazy to think they haven't been around that long 

Lost it to Montpellier at PSG.

Just now, Argo said:

Lost it to Montpellier at PSG.

I totally forgot he was at PSG, didn't he come in about halfway through the season that season though? 

 

26 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I totally forgot he was at PSG, didn't he come in about halfway through the season that season though? 

 

Yeah, but they were leading when he did.

He's a top bloke but I've never warmed to him as a manager, his teams get complacent at inappropriate times which is why his league record is meh. 

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Yeah, but they were leading when he did.

He's a top bloke but I've never warmed to him as a manager, his teams get complacent at inappropriate times which is why his league record is meh. 

I can see why it would still be tough coming in mid season though.

I still think we treated him unfairly, we didn't really back him in the transfer window between the 09/10 - 10/11 seasons. We let a lot of leaders in Ballack, Joe Cole and Carvalho. That hurts more when Ballack wanted another year and had adapted his role to be more of a holding one which was partly what we needed the following season. Plus players like Belletti who were important to the squad and Deco. We needed to replace a few of those and we didn't at least not with the right players. He then got in Torres and Luiz mid season but I thought that was two moves to late and as we know Torres was a mistake. Also don't forget that we stupidly let Ray Wilkins go, I still don't know why. I just think that season was full of bad club decisions, not that Carlo was completely faultless but I thought that season was disastrous more from a club perspective.

Just now, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I can see why it would still be tough coming in mid season though.

I still think we treated him unfairly, we didn't really back him in the transfer window between the 09/10 - 10/11 seasons. We let a lot of leaders in Ballack, Joe Cole and Carvalho. That hurts more when Ballack wanted another year and had adapted his role to be more of a holding one which was partly what we needed the following season. Plus players like Belletti who were important to the squad and Deco. We needed to replace a few of those and we didn't at least not with the right players. He then got in Torres and Luiz mid season but I thought that was two moves to late and as we know Torres was a mistake. Also don't forget that we stupidly let Ray Wilkins go, I still don't know why. I just think that season was full of bad club decisions, not that Carlo was completely faultless but I thought that season was disastrous more from a club perspective.

My gripe even in the double season was the complacency issue, every time we had a chance to build a massive lead we fuked it, under Jose or even Hiddink we would have took those chances and disappeared from sight. I saw a few worrying signs but the way we ended the season gave me hope he fixed them. The second season was just simply baffling, i accept the board f**ked up themselves but some of Carlos decisions had me tearing my hair out, he kept playing stagnant Anelka or Kalou over a young, hungry and ready Sturridge and his idea of pragmatism was starting one and switching whichever out of the pair that started for the other on the hour. The only time he changed things was to accommodate Torres ( initially but changed back after Fulham) and to be fair it worked at Sunderland with Kalou 'playing' Torres but what it did was reveal our game plan to Dalglish, who rocked up to London with a 532 which totally nullifies a diamond.

What frustrates me even more about Carlo is when its good its very good, but when its bad its really bad and that cost him his job both here and Real.

56 minutes ago, Argo said:

My gripe even in the double season was the complacency issue, every time we had a chance to build a massive lead we fuked it, under Jose or even Hiddink we would have took those chances and disappeared from sight. I saw a few worrying signs but the way we ended the season gave me hope he fixed them. The second season was just simply baffling, i accept the board f**ked up themselves but some of Carlos decisions had me tearing my hair out, he kept playing stagnant Anelka or Kalou over a young, hungry and ready Sturridge and his idea of pragmatism was starting one and switching whichever out of the pair that started for the other on the hour. The only time he changed things was to accommodate Torres ( initially but changed back after Fulham) and to be fair it worked at Sunderland with Kalou 'playing' Torres but what it did was reveal our game plan to Dalglish, who rocked up to London with a 532 which totally nullifies a diamond.

What frustrates me even more about Carlo is when its good its very good, but when its bad its really bad and that cost him his job both here and Real.

Yeah we did f**k up a lot in the 09-10 season but maybe that's why it was my favourite season cause it had twists and turns.

Yeah I agree there, he did seem to stick with the same players come rain or shine. Oh god yeah I remember that Liverpool defeat. It was really stupid by us, we should have stuck to our formation and brought Torres on if the game needed it. 

Edited November 20, 20169 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

31 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Yeah we did f**k up a lot in the 09-10 season but maybe that's why it was my favourite season cause it had twists and turns.

Yeah I agree there, he did seem to stick with the same p,a hers come rain or shine. Oh god yeah I remember that Liverpool defeat. It was really stupid by us, we should have stuck to our formation and brought Torres on if the game needed it. 

Torres shouldnt have played atall in my opinion, making a debut vs the club you controversially left 5 days prior would have tested the mental strength of warriors like Drogba and Zlatan never mind a mental midget. He should have been left out and made his debut in the quiter less pressured environment of Craven Cottage a week later.

Maybe im boring but i prefer twists and turns and fine margarins saved for knockout football, league i prefer wrapped up with games to spare. Losing it on a final day would be agony to near Moscow level, i had nightmares for a week leading up to Wigan.

Edited November 20, 20169 yr by Argo

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Torres shouldnt have played atall in my opinion, making a debut vs the club you controversially left 5 days prior would have tested the mental strength of warriors like Drogba and Zlatan never mind a mental midget. He should have been left out and made his debut in the quiter less pressured environment of Craven Cottage a week later.

Maybe im boring but i prefer twists and turns and fine margarins saved for knockout football, league i prefer wrapped up with games to spare. The though of losing it on a final day would be agony, i had nightmares for a week leading up to Wigan.

I think I can agree he shouldn't have started but if we'd needed a goal I can see the benefit of bringing him on. But you make a good point it might have been better for him.

I can see why but I find the final few weeks of the season are boring when the leagues wrapped up early. The best seasons to me are when they're run close. It's not necessarily good for the heart though haha.

1 minute ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I think I can agree he shouldn't have started but if we'd needed a goal I can see the benefit of bringing him on. But you make a good point it might have been better for him.

I can see why but I find the final few weeks of the season are boring when the leagues wrapped up early. The best seasons to me are when they're run close. It's not necessarily good for the heart though haha.

That's fair enough can definitely understand your argument despite not agreeing, personally my reasoning is i enjoyed being able to watch us without pressure, plus playing United and Liverpool after being crowned Champions was brilliant. I hope we can do likewise with the North London duo in the future.

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

That's fair enough can definitely understand your argument despite not agreeing, personally my reasoning is i enjoyed being able to watch us without pressure, plus playing United and Liverpool after being crowned Champions was brilliant. I hope we can do likewise with the North London duo in the future.

I totally get where you're coming from, sometimes you're so nervous you can't actually enjoy the game. Also even though I prefer it to be tighter (I'm the same with cup finals) all through you'll see me saying I just want it wrapped up etc, it's just after I normally find the season quite boring.

Yeah those were brilliant, 04/05 especially when we were Champions and we outclassed United. Plus the opposition having to clap you on is always a delight.

Newcastle take the lead against Leeds, horrible goalkeeping from Green there

2 hours ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Is that because they're a fairly new team? Crazy to think they haven't been around that long 

Pretty much, yeah. They're seven years old and bankrolled by the owner of Red Bull.

Deighton Gayke makes it 2, good night Leeds 

3 hours ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Whose the other unknown?

His league record should be better, it's crazy to think it isn't. Like his second season at Real, they should have won it that season but they blew it.

 

Is that because they're a fairly new team? Crazy to think they haven't been around that long 

 

It's not just the newness, although that rankles. It's also the fact that they skirt around Bundesliga membership rules which state that clubs have to retain majority voting rights, ie, 50+1. Leipzig basically make becoming a member prohibitively expensive (think thousands) and reject any applications they don't like, therefore only having 11 members compared to the likes of Bayern, Schalke and BVB who have over half a million between them. This article from the Graun delves into a bit.

2 hours ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I can see why it would still be tough coming in mid season though.

I still think we treated him unfairly, we didn't really back him in the transfer window between the 09/10 - 10/11 seasons. We let a lot of leaders in Ballack, Joe Cole and Carvalho. That hurts more when Ballack wanted another year and had adapted his role to be more of a holding one which was partly what we needed the following season. Plus players like Belletti who were important to the squad and Deco. We needed to replace a few of those and we didn't at least not with the right players. He then got in Torres and Luiz mid season but I thought that was two moves to late and as we know Torres was a mistake. Also don't forget that we stupidly let Ray Wilkins go, I still don't know why. I just think that season was full of bad club decisions, not that Carlo was completely faultless but I thought that season was disastrous more from a club perspective.

 

Didn't we give Ray the tin tack because he got done for drunk driving?

49 minutes ago, Charles Ryder said:

 

It's not just the newness, although that rankles. It's also the fact that they skirt around Bundesliga membership rules which state that clubs have to retain majority voting rights, ie, 50+1. Leipzig basically make becoming a member prohibitively expensive (think thousands) and reject any applications they don't like, therefore only having 11 members compared to the likes of Bayern, Schalke and BVB who have over half a million between them. This article from the Graun delves into a bit.

 

Didn't we give Ray the tin tack because he got done for drunk driving?

I don't newness should rankle at all personally, clubs have to be formed at some point. I see the rest of the points though.

Is that what it was?

The main issue, as I understand it, is they're subverting the very structure that ensures things like affordable ticket prices and fan representation throughout the league.

I'm not 100% sure on the Wilkins thing, think the drink driving conviction may have come later when he was at Fulham. But I think there were whispers that his dismissal was related to the issue, iirc.

The drink driving conviction was from 2012

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141677/Ray-Wilkins-drink-driving-charge-Former-England-captain-pulled-95-mile-trip.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

6 hours ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I totally get where you're coming from, sometimes you're so nervous you can't actually enjoy the game. Also even though I prefer it to be tighter (I'm the same with cup finals) all through you'll see me saying I just want it wrapped up etc, it's just after I normally find the season quite boring.

Yeah those were brilliant, 04/05 especially when we were Champions and we outclassed United. Plus the opposition having to clap you on is always a delight.

To expand today is another example why i will always choose a win with games to spare if given choice, we were relitevely comfortable for most of that yet my heart was still having kittens.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

To expand today is another example why i will always choose a win with games to spare if given choice, we were relitevely comfortable for most of that yet my heart was still having kittens.

Haha yeah I was tense as hell but I enjoyed that aspect. I think it's after you appreciate it though not during the game lol

21 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Haha yeah I was tense as hell but I enjoyed that aspect. I think it's after you appreciate it though not during the game lol

I was like a mini Conte last 20 and when i say mini i mean smaller and younger, the animation i was competing well with him on.

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

I was like a mini Conte last 20 and when i say mini i mean smaller and younger, the animation i was competing well with him on.

12 hours ago, Argo said:

Maybe im boring but i prefer twists and turns and fine margarins saved for knockout football, league i prefer wrapped up with games to spare. Losing it on a final day would be agony to near Moscow level, i had nightmares for a week leading up to Wigan.

I remember watching the game vs Wigan and even though we were 2-0 up and they had 10 men I was still sh*t scared that we might contrive to mess it up. Munich was pure torture tbh for 130 odd minutes, my heart was pounding all game long, but then the euphoria that followed was something else!

RE: Wilkins - probably bullsh*t but I heard a rumour at the time that he had said something to RA at a club 'do' which the latter took exception to and it began from there.

8 hours ago, Celery1989 said:

I remember watching the game vs Wigan and even though we were 2-0 up and they had 10 men I was still sh*t scared that we might contrive to mess it up. Munich was pure torture tbh for 130 odd minutes, my heart was pounding all game long, but then the euphoria that followed was something else!

RE: Wilkins - probably bullsh*t but I heard a rumour at the time that he had said something to RA at a club 'do' which the latter took exception to and it began from there.

Apparently Roman was not happy with performances and Ray said something along the lines off we have just won the double for christ sake, if that was the case i can understand why Roman wasn't happy, resting on you're laurels is a no no so using an achievement of the previous season to hide behind current form..........