3 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Well, that totally mature, to say the least.

Also, what do you say when someone uses half a season's stats to compare a mid table team player to a veteran of 22 years old. Seems fair, right? 

The other 10 people said it for you mate, but that's not 1 comment go through the thread, just wondering why you are so opposed to signing such a good CB who would improve us? 

1 minute ago, DonAntonio said:

The other 10 people said it for you mate, but that's not 1 comment go through the thread, just wondering why you are so opposed to signing such a good CB who would improve us? 

You can read the said comments to understand why I dont think we NEED him.

10 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

The other 10 people said it for you mate, but that's not 1 comment go through the thread, just wondering why you are so opposed to signing such a good CB who would improve us? 

Maybe he has a different opinion of him to you, which I think is allowed. 

10 minutes ago, dkw said:

Maybe he has a different opinion of him to you, which I think is allowed. 

Certainly is my good man, and I'm allowed to ask if there is a reason for the vendetta aren't I? Diversity of opinion one of the fruits of society...

7 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Certainly is my good man, and I'm allowed to ask if there is a reason for the vendetta aren't I? Diversity of opinion one of the fruits of society...

"Did VVD shag your high school sweetheart or something?" is barely asking someone why he is against a particular transfer. 

I think VVD is a good player. But like I have said, I dont think he even gets into our current team. Moreover, his transfer will surely make us sell one of our finest prospects in Andreas. 

1 hour ago, didierforever said:

"Did VVD shag your high school sweetheart or something?" is barely asking someone why he is against a particular transfer. 

I think VVD is a good player. But like I have said, I dont think he even gets into our current team. Moreover, his transfer will surely make us sell one of our finest prospects in Andreas. 

The gist of that tongue and cheek comment was that you seem overly invested in rejecting a good CB that fits the system well, and take a shot at any given moment, anyway cheer up, unlike your first smart arse comment in our series of dialog it was supposed to be light hearted not offend so if it has done, my apologies. Also Andreas is 21 absolutely no need to sell him for this transfer Garry and Luiz are  31 and 30 respectively,  to expect first team football at chelsea in a role like CB having just turned 21 is bold and if he doesn't realise that maybe better to sell him, but I'm sure he doesn't, a season or two on loan would do him well, by the time he is back we will need him as Garry will be 33 and Luiz 32, and he will be ready, unlike now where we need a solid starter, not a player still learning his trade, Garry will slot to be backup, VVD Dave and Luiz will be immense, and if Andreas is sensible will not hurt his career at all, he wont start at any top tier club next season and that's a fact, we need a top CB, VVD is tailor made for us, I don't see the problem but entitled to your opinion, just cant get the over investment in something that's good for the club, I also lile a good youth player to make it, but what is your attachment to christensen? What has he done for Chelsea? Surely a chelsea supporters priority would be whats better for the club, VVD is miles ahead of Christensen at the moment so logically should be better for the club this upcoming season.

15 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

The gist of that tongue and cheek comment was that you seem overly invested in rejecting a good CB that fits the system well, and take a shot at any given moment, anyway cheer up, unlike your first smart arse comment in our series of dialog it was supposed to be light hearted not offend so if it has done, my apologies. Also Andreas is 21 absolutely no need to sell him for this transfer Garry and Luiz are  31 and 30 respectively,  to expect first team football at chelsea in a role like CB having just turned 21 is bold and if he doesn't realise that maybe better to sell him, but I'm sure he doesn't, a season or two on loan would do him well, by the time he is back we will need him as Garry will be 33 and Luiz 32, and he will be ready, unlike now where we need a solid starter, not a player still learning his trade, Garry will slot to be backup, VVD Dave and Luiz will be immense, and if Andreas is sensible will not hurt his career at all, he wont start at any top tier club next season and that's a fact, we need a top CB, VVD is tailor made for us, I don't see the problem but entitled to your opinion, just cant get the over investment in something that's good for the club, I also lile a good youth player to make it, but what is your attachment to christensen? What has he done for Chelsea? Surely a chelsea supporters priority would be whats better for the club, VVD is miles ahead of Christensen at the moment so logically should be better for the club this upcoming season.

First things first, I just dont believe the bolded part. VVD might be better (might), but miles ahead, no way in hell. 

Secondly, Andreas and his father have confirmed time and again that he would decide his fate this season for once and for all. Last year he was getting interest from the likes of barca and yet, he is still circulating the loan drain. So would not blame him for wanting stability regarding his bright future. Top tier as in CL playing clubs? Andreas has had 2 years of experience in that at the age of 21. I am sorry, but he ALREADY playing for a bigger club than VVD is.

Thirdly, I can ask the same of you? Whats your affiliation to VVD? Are you his agent? Will you get some cut if he makes a big money transfer cause you keep putting him up on a pedestal. Fact of the matter is you think VVD is a brilliant top notch defender while I think he is a good defender who had a great HALF season. Lovren looked as good. Morgan looked even better. Chelsea is not SOTON. Expectations and Pressure of a 50mil tag will be another factor. All in all, I would take the risk with Andreas seeing his potential (even his current development). 

Lastly, VVD replacing GC? Club captain. After a season of being in the PL team of the year. Seems fair enough. 

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by didierforever

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by the special one

7 minutes ago, didierforever said:

First things first, I just dont believe the bolded part. VVD might be better (might), but miles ahead, no way in hell. 

Secondly, Andreas and his father have confirmed time and again that he would decide his fate this season for once and for all. Last year he was getting interest from the likes of barca and yet, he is still circulating the loan drain. So would not blame him for wanting stability regarding his bright future. Top tier as in CL playing clubs? Andreas has had 2 years of experience in that at the age of 21. I am sorry, but he ALREADY playing for a bigger club than VVD is.

Thirdly, I can ask the same of you? Whats your affiliation to VVD? Are you his agent? Will you get some cut if he makes a big money transfer cause you keep putting him up on a pedestal. Fact of the matter is you think VVD is a brilliant top notch defender while I think he is a good defender who had a great HALF season. Lovren looked as good. Morgan looked even better. Chelsea is not SOTON. Expectations and Pressure of a 50mil tag will be another factor. All in all, I would take the risk with Andreas seeing his potential (even his current development). 

Lastly, VVD replacing GC? Club captain. After a season of being in the PL team of the year. Seems fair enough. 

GC is the weakest link in the back line whoever we get in will replace him unless Dave moves to RWB which I dont mind at all, also, if you think he would start for Barca you are dreaming mate, he wouldn't start for any top club, Chelsea over teh last 10 years is in the top 5 or 6 clubs in Europe, and if we want to be in that league again we need the best we can buy, and christensen just isn't good enough yet thats my affiliation with VVD, he is the best CB available to chelsea at this time, a 21 year old forward messes up no big deal, a Cb does and it costs games, it's a position that needs experience. 

1 minute ago, DonAntonio said:

GC is the weakest link in the back line whoever we get in will replace him unless Dave moves to RWB which I dont mind at all, also, if you think he would start for Barca you are dreaming mate, he wouldn't start for any top club, Chelsea over teh last 10 years is in the top 5 or 6 clubs in Europe, and if we want to be in that league again we need the best we can buy, and christensen just isn't good enough yet thats my affiliation with VVD, he is the best CB available to chelsea at this time, a 21 year old forward messes up no big deal, a Cb does and it costs games, it's a position that needs experience. 

Weakest link? What has that got to do with anything?

Neymar is the weakest link in MSN, does not mean they would go and replace him with draxler or maria.

GC has won the FA cup, 2 PL, 1 CL, 1 EL, 1 League Cup, got into the team of the year, is the club captain and you think VVD is going to replace him? Are you talking about VVD or Ramos?

Yes, experience is needed, so how many years of experience does VVD have in CL football?

2 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Weakest link? What has that got to do with anything?

Neymar is the weakest link in MSN, does not mean they would go and replace him with draxler or maria.

GC has won the FA cup, 2 PL, 1 CL, 1 EL, 1 League Cup, got into the team of the year, is the club captain and you think VVD is going to replace him? Are you talking about VVD or Ramos?

Yes, experience is needed, so how many years of experience does VVD have in CL football?

GC will be 32 going on 33 next season. VvD is succession planning, taking a punt on Ake is gambling.

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by the special one

3 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Weakest link? What has that got to do with anything?

Neymar is the weakest link in MSN, does not mean they would go and replace him with draxler or maria.

GC has won the FA cup, 2 PL, 1 CL, 1 EL, 1 League Cup, got into the team of the year, is the club captain and you think VVD is going to replace him? Are you talking about VVD or Ramos?

Yes, experience is needed, so how many years of experience does VVD have in CL football?

What has the weakest link got to do with anything, garry is a top bloke and proper Chelsea but he is a limited CB, so when looking to upgrade the weakest in the line is where you will upgrade so that has everything to do with new players coming in, that's why it's called strengthening, you identify a weakness and strengthen its not complicated, VVD I said better than garry, so if one of those back three go it's not Dave, except if he moves and it's not luiz who was exceptional and a far better footballer, so yes if we started conceding he would find his place under threat before the other 2, that's just reality 

1 hour ago, DonAntonio said:

What has the weakest link got to do with anything, garry is a top bloke and proper Chelsea but he is a limited CB, so when looking to upgrade the weakest in the line is where you will upgrade so that has everything to do with new players coming in, that's why it's called strengthening, you identify a weakness and strengthen its not complicated, VVD I said better than garry, so if one of those back three go it's not Dave, except if he moves and it's not luiz who was exceptional and a far better footballer, so yes if we started conceding he would find his place under threat before the other 2, that's just reality 

IMO, your point of Cahill being a 'limited' CB is quite mute and if anything VVD is more 'limited' in that he has the concentration span of a squirrel. When Gary signed he was considered one of the better ball playing CB in the league yet you seem slightly obsessed with his suppose lack of skill on the ball. Whilst he is not on par with a midfielder Gary is still one of the better defenders on the ball in the league, could you find better yes is that the main thing about being a CB no.

You also seem to think that because Christensen is young he is somehow incomplete, personally (from what I have seen of both) I think Christensen looks like the more mature CB out of him and VVD, and he seems more composed in possession and less error prone in defence.

IMO the only thing VVD has over the other 2 is his physical presence (which I think is the only real argument that can be put forward for the case of signing VVD) as I don't think he is a better ball player than either Christensen or Cahill and he certainly isn't a David Luiz on the ball.

28 minutes ago, PedroMendez said:

IMO, your point of Cahill being a 'limited' CB is quite mute and if anything VVD is more 'limited' in that he has the concentration span of a squirrel. When Gary signed he was considered one of the better ball playing CB in the league yet you seem slightly obsessed with his suppose lack of skill on the ball. Whilst he is not on par with a midfielder Gary is still one of the better defenders on the ball in the league, could you find better yes is that the main thing about being a CB no.

You also seem to think that because Christensen is young he is somehow incomplete, personally (from what I have seen of both) I think Christensen looks like the more mature CB out of him and VVD, and he seems more composed in possession and less error prone in defence.

IMO the only thing VVD has over the other 2 is his physical presence (which I think is the only real argument that can be put forward for the case of signing VVD) as I don't think he is a better ball player than either Christensen or Cahill and he certainly isn't a David Luiz on the ball.

No one in their right mind would call Gary a ball playing CB his composure is awful, we saw it this season and last, he has no pace, can't defend when a player runs at him, he is extremely limited, that's why last season we got torn apart, the system and Kante have hidden his frailties, now Christensen, have you watched him this season? Very average, VVD critical to Southampton and more mature....he is the team captain, everything you have said it completely off the boil, garry is a ball playing cb, who is as good on the ball as VVD,  21 year old Christensen is more mature than a 25 year old club captain who plays for the Dutch national team...there isn't even much to discuss you're just so far off point, there is a reason city, Utd and Chelsea want to spend 50 mil on him, he is bloody good, unless you know something the technical directors in all of these big clubs doesn't know? 

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by DonAntonio

3 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

The gist of that tongue and cheek comment was that you seem overly invested in rejecting a good CB that fits the system well, and take a shot at any given moment, anyway cheer up, unlike your first smart arse comment in our series of dialog it was supposed to be light hearted not offend so if it has done, my apologies. Also Andreas is 21 absolutely no need to sell him for this transfer Garry and Luiz are  31 and 30 respectively,  to expect first team football at chelsea in a role like CB having just turned 21 is bold and if he doesn't realise that maybe better to sell him, but I'm sure he doesn't, a season or two on loan would do him well, by the time he is back we will need him as Garry will be 33 and Luiz 32, and he will be ready, unlike now where we need a solid starter, not a player still learning his trade, Garry will slot to be backup, VVD Dave and Luiz will be immense, and if Andreas is sensible will not hurt his career at all, he wont start at any top tier club next season and that's a fact, we need a top CB, VVD is tailor made for us, I don't see the problem but entitled to your opinion, just cant get the over investment in something that's good for the club, I also lile a good youth player to make it, but what is your attachment to christensen? What has he done for Chelsea? Surely a chelsea supporters priority would be whats better for the club, VVD is miles ahead of Christensen at the moment so logically should be better for the club this upcoming season.

Well, that's awkward, considering Barca signed 22 year old Umtiti last summer and he had 42 appearances (starting most games) this season. Also, 24 year old Varane started playing for Madrid when he was 19 and has been averaging over 30 games a season for them (could be playing more if he didn't get injured often). Rio also got the transfer record broken for him twice in 2 years by Leeds and Man United and he was 21/23 at the time. Quality trumps age every time regardless of position.

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by Barrettinator

Just now, Barrettinator said:

Well, that's awkward, considering Barca signed 22 year old Umtiti last summer and he had 42 appearances (starting most games) this season. Also, 24 year old Varane started playing for Madrid when he was 19 and has been averaging over 30 games a season for them (could be playing more if he didn't get injured often). Rio also got the transfer record broken for him twice in 2 years by Leeds and Man United and he was 21/23 at the time. Quality trumps age every time regardless of position.

These are exception not the rule, to expect to just walk into the PL champions squad is as I said bold having just turned 21, if you remember viran who is miles better than Christensen was going to be sold last year because he couldn't get game time, when there is an exceptional player, or the club has limited options due to injury or what have you a young CB can play at a top team but as I said exceptions not the rule, christensen is good not exceptional, he isn't even good enough yet to bench Garry who needs upgraded if we are brutally honest, to think he will put out Luiz or dave is as I said bold, if thats what he expects then he is expecting too much, he will not start for us next season, I can guarantee it which means if that happens I'm on the same page as the manager, he will not start and there is good reason for that, I think people make a huge deal out of this young man without watching him play, he is good but he isn't nearly as good as people are making out, again if you watched him this season he had a very average season. 

7 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

These are exception not the rule, to expect to just walk into the PL champions squad is as I said bold having just turned 21, if you remember viran who is miles better than Christensen was going to be sold last year because he couldn't get game time, when there is an exceptional player, or the club has limited options due to injury or what have you a young CB can play at a top team but as I said exceptions not the rule, christensen is good not exceptional, he isn't even good enough yet to bench Garry who needs upgraded if we are brutally honest, to think he will put out Luiz or dave is as I said bold, if thats what he expects then he is expecting too much, he will not start for us next season, I can guarantee it which means if that happens I'm on the same page as the manager, he will not start and there is good reason for that, I think people make a huge deal out of this young man without watching him play, he is good but he isn't nearly as good as people are making out, again if you watched him this season he had a very average season. 

How do you know exceptions if you don't take the punt? You have to try and see how it pans out. You make it sound like these "exceptions" are rare unicorns or something. How do you know for sure that Christensen won't turn out to be the best CB in the world in 5 years? You don't. And neither do I. But we'll never know if we don't try.

Mind, I'm not against signing VVD. Not anymore at least. As I've said several times in this thread by now, I can see a situation where both of them are at Chelsea next season, especially considering Gary & Luiz's ages. There's nothing wrong with planning for a future back line that has both Christensen and VVD in it.  Just don't paint Christensen as some young lad who has no future at the top level. That's just flagrantly wrong and for the mere sake of making a case for VVD. We don't know if VVD is going to turn into the next Mangala or Otamendi once he signs for us either. We don't know the future. We can only try to hedge our bets and plan properly. I'm sure most Chelsea fans would be gutted if Christensen turned into another Lukaku/De Bruyne at another top club.

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by Barrettinator

1 minute ago, Barrettinator said:

How do you know exceptions if you don't take the punt? You have to try and see how it pans out. You make it sound like these "exceptions" are rare unicorns or something. How do you know for sure that Christensen won't turn out to be the best CB in the world in 5 years? You don't. And neither do I. But we'll never know if we don't try.

Mind, I'm not against signing VVD. Not anymore at least. As I've said several times in this thread by now, I can see a situation where both of them are at Chelsea next season, especially considering Gary & Luiz's ages. There's nothing wrong with planning for a future back line that has both Christensen and VVD in it.  Just don't paint Christensen as some young lad who has no future at the top level. That's just flagrantly wrong and for the mere sake of making a case for VVD.

Well easy we being in someone ready to play at the top of his game and give christensen a season or two to develop on loan by that time we will know if he is exceptional the modern game isn't forgiving enough to give youth a shot, we need player s that make an instant impact, it's the way things are in modern football, if you listen to contest last interview he alluded to that fact 

Just now, DonAntonio said:

Well easy we being in someone ready to play at the top of his game and give christensen a season or two to develop on loan by that time we will know if he is exceptional the modern game isn't forgiving enough to give youth a shot, we need player s that make an instant impact, it's the way things are in modern football, if you listen to contest last interview he alluded to that fact 

You keep saying give him a season or two on loan like he hasn't been on loan for the last 2 years already. Not every loanee has the patience of Chalobah, Bertrand and co. Not every player's going to want to go on loan 5 times before being considered worthy enough. Over the past year, his father has repeatedly said he'll have 2 options this summer; either be a Chelsea player or get a permanent move elsewhere. How have you missed all those comments? Or do you think they're going to take another loan just to please Chelsea? The lad's got his own career to look after.

13 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

How do you know exceptions if you don't take the punt

Take a punt on Christensen, absolutely.

But take a punt on Christensen and Ake? What if Cahill gets injured? Would you rely on Ake in a CL quarter final (at LCB)? Would he win aerial duels against the likes of Lewandowski and Mandzukic? For me it isn't worth the risk. At least if Azpi gets injured Christensen already has CL experience.

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by the special one

3 minutes ago, the special one said:

Take a punt on Christensen, absolutely.

But take a punt on Christensen and Ake? What if Cahill gets injured? Would you rely on Ake in a CL quarter final (at LCB)? Would he win aerial duels against the likes of Lewandowski and Mandzukic? For me it isn't worth the risk. At least if Azpi gets injured Christensen already has CL experience.

Worth what risk? No one's saying Ake should be starting. But how on earth can you not see that he's a quality back up? He'll make mistakes, that's certain. As all young players do. But age and experience will help him weed out those mistakes. So far, he has had one stellar game and one not-so-good game for us (Spurs, Watford). Perfectly normal to expect of a young player. Not sure what you have against Ake. Would you rather get rid of him then? Every player in the world who has CL experience started with zero CL experience.

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by Barrettinator

2 minutes ago, the special one said:

Take a punt on Christensen, absolutely.

But take a punt on Christensen and Ake? What if Cahill gets injured? Would you rely on Ake in a CL quarter final (at LCB)? Would he win aerial duels against the likes of Lewandowski and Mandzukic? For me it isn't worth the risk. At least if Azpi gets injured Christensen already has CL experience.

I would rely on Ake in a CL quarter final. I don't think Cahill is a big miss if Chelsea have Ake and Christensen, if these players are good enough they should be playing regardless of age. Christensen can play on the right and move Dave to the left, there are options and I think Chelsea will sign another defender due to losing Terry and I suspect Zouma. Ake is a lot more comfortable on the ball than Cahill and I find Cahill is a little bit of last ditch defender.

4 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Would you rather get rid of him then?

I'd prefer to keep him as backup, but if it's a simple choice between VVD and Ake personally I'm fine with us selling him.

Why is Ake linked with West Ham and Bournemouth, but not the big clubs? For me that's a good indicator of Ake's current ability.

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by the special one

1 minute ago, the special one said:

I'd prefer to keep him as backup, but if it's a simple choice between VVD and Ake. Yes personally I'm fine with us selling him.

I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned VVD vs Ake. We're talking about Christensen. Signing VVD doesn't affect Ake's chances much.

2 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned VVD vs Ake. We're talking about Christensen. Signing VVD doesn't affect Ake's chances much.

I think it's relevant because as you say we can have both Christensen and VVD. Christensen is a right sided RCB, van Dijk LCB - for me it's a waste of time comparing the two because they specialise in different positions. The comparisons should be made between Ake and VVD imho.

 

Edited May 26, 20179 yr by the special one