3 hours ago, the special one said:

We can do both!! 

(but we'll need to accept that Ake/Zouma may leave)

This.

My heart's saying we should go in with the current back three with Andreas and Ake, but my heads saying we need a new signing. The 11 game clean sheetless run was pretty worrying and Andreas is 21, so plenty of time for him to develop into a cornerstone of the defense.

2 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Interesting take on it, pretty sure towards the end of the season as Azpi was pushed further up field he's got more goals and assists in the last few games than a long time beforehand. I'd be interested to see exact figures, but to say he's not that good going forward when he played most of his time in a four at left back is a bit of a stretch. 

 

Oh and not forgetting our current RWB's final ball 'isn't that good. Aka, Moses couldn't cross the road.

Mate, Azpi got those goals while Moses was on the pitch. He's always in that edge of the box to 30 yard area when we're taking corners or putting a lot of pressure on the opposition. That has nothing to do with being played at RWB.

Moses' final ball isn't that good but it's still better, more decisive and faster than Azpi's. Only thing the lad's got on Moses offensively is probably his long crosses. Let's stop acting like Azpi hasn't been playing for us since 2012 as a full back. He's not exactly Ashley Cole going forward, is he? We can do better than Moses at RWB but that means we need a Sandro/Alves type wing back. Not Azpi.

39 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Mate, Azpi got those goals while Moses was on the pitch. He's always in that edge of the box to 30 yard area when we're taking corners or putting a lot of pressure on the opposition. That has nothing to do with being played at RWB.

Moses' final ball isn't that good but it's still better, more decisive and faster than Azpi's. Only thing the lad's got on Moses offensively is probably his long crosses. Let's stop acting like Azpi hasn't been playing for us since 2012 as a full back. He's not exactly Ashley Cole going forward, is he? We can do better than Moses at RWB but that means we need a Sandro/Alves type wing back. Not Azpi.

He's been playing as a left full back, have you played football? Playing full back on the opposite side going forward is harder than you seem to be implying. How many truly brilliant right footed LB's have you seen going forward? I bet you can count them on one hand.

 

Moses - 3 goals 1 assist in the prem

Azpi - 1 goal 4 assists in the prem

 

One of those has been playing CB pretty much the whole year, obviously stats don't tell the whole story but this gives an insight in to why Moses final ball is not much better than Azpi's.

5 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

He's been playing as a left full back, have you played football? Playing full back on the opposite side going forward is harder than you seem to be implying. How many truly brilliant right footed LB's have you seen going forward? I bet you can count them on one hand.

 

Moses - 3 goals 1 assist in the prem

Azpi - 1 goal 4 assists in the prem

 

One of those has been playing CB pretty much the whole year, obviously stats don't tell the whole story but this gives an insight in to why Moses final ball is not much better than Azpi's.

So you admit he's not been as good going forward on that right flank. 

Also, how good was he offensively between 2012 and 2015 when he was actually playing at LB? Again, he's impeccable defensively but there's a lot of room for improvement going forward.

3 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Interesting take on it, pretty sure towards the end of the season as Azpi was pushed further up field he's got more goals and assists in the last few games than a long time beforehand. I'd be interested to see exact figures, but to say he's not that good going forward when he played most of his time in a four at left back is a bit of a stretch. 

 

Oh and not forgetting our current RWB's final ball 'isn't that good. Aka, Moses couldn't cross the road.

This is nothing more than a myth. Moses' final ball, is no where near as bad as people make out. If we get a poacher and a striker who gambles (unlike Costa who I never see just taking a gamble and going in the box for a cross), moses would have had far more assists (as would alonso). And azpi IS poor offennsively in a back 4, hence he never gets the accolades he deserves like most attacking full backs do (marcelo and alves who can both be more than a liability defensively). 

2 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

So you admit he's not been as good going forward on that right flank. 

Also, how good was he offensively between 2012 and 2015 when he was actually playing at LB? Again, he's impeccable defensively but there's a lot of room for improvement going forward.

Of course there's room for improvement, there's always room for improvement. 

 

I never said anything about the right hand side he's played there a handful of times for us.

I've already explained that of course he wouldn't be overly effective down the left hand side. 

 

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion I just think it's funny when we have Moses with one assist and a CB is getting more assists than him yet it called poor offensively.

2 hours ago, didierforever said:

This is nothing more than a myth. Moses' final ball, is no where near as bad as people make out. If we get a poacher and a striker who gambles (unlike Costa who I never see just taking a gamble and going in the box for a cross), moses would have had far more assists (as would alonso). And azpi IS poor offennsively in a back 4, hence he never gets the accolades he deserves like most attacking full backs do (marcelo and alves who can both be more than a liability defensively). 

It's not a myth at all, it's a fact and the proof is right up there, pundits alike have been calling him the best defender in the league this season so I'm not sure that's quite the case anymore regarding not getting the accolades he deserves.

 

Costa is never in the box yet has 20 goals this year? I've not been his biggest fan this season but usually the one place you can count on Costa to he lethal is in the box. 

 

Azpilicueta played in a back 4 when we had the likes of Ba, an old Eto'o etc so it's fair to say it's not his fault then because they weren't elite strikers?

1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It's not a myth at all, it's a fact and the proof is right up there, pundits alike have been calling him the best defender in the league this season so I'm not sure that's quite the case anymore regarding not getting the accolades he deserves.

 

Costa is never in the box yet has 20 goals this year? I've not been his biggest fan this season but usually the one place you can count on Costa to he lethal is in the box. 

 

Azpilicueta played in a back 4 when we had the likes of Ba, an old Eto'o etc so it's fair to say it's not his fault then because they weren't elite strikers?

Oh come on mate. How many goals have you seen costa score through Crosses? Alonso/Moses put in plenty of 50/50 balls in the box, with simply no one gambling. Thats a Fact. Costa getting 20 goals is more on the service he gets from Hazard and specially cesc. But lets not act like he is a chicharito level poacher. COsta has his strengths, getting at the end of crosses, simply is not one. 

Anyways, we digress, its not about costa or even Azpi, who still did not make the PFA team of the year or any team of the year, and if you ask most chelsea fans, they would say he is criminally underrated. As for his attacking game, there is just so much missing from it. And its no where near Moses' directness, speed and how much of a danger he is from the opposition winger/FB. Azpi simply wont be able to give the same danger that moses poses.

14 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Of course there's room for improvement, there's always room for improvement. 

 

I never said anything about the right hand side he's played there a handful of times for us.

I've already explained that of course he wouldn't be overly effective down the left hand side. 

 

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion I just think it's funny when we have Moses with one assist and a CB is getting more assists than him yet it called poor offensively.

For the record, I meant to say 2013-2016. Not sure why I mixed that up.

That said, I never once called him "poor offensively". Not sure where you've gotten that from. I said he's not that good offensively. In other words, he's okay. Nothing spectacular. 

And playing in that position isn't just about assists and goals mate. That was very evident in how poorly we performed when Moses was out, wasn't it?

At this point i am willing to part ways with Zouma if it means we can sign VVD. Ake and Christensen need to be kept however

Moses' crossing is bad, I've watched every game this season I think and I have certainly seen enough of him crossing to come to that conclusion. It's generally a miracle if he beats the first man.

On 5/23/2017 at 11:24, Zeta said:

Moses' crossing is bad, I've watched every game this season I think and I have certainly seen enough of him crossing to come to that conclusion. It's generally a miracle if he beats the first man.

I don't even get off my seat when he has the ball in an advanced positions, the only player in recent times who i have had lower expectation's for when he has had the ball in the final 3rd was Torres (well for him it was anywhere on the pitch i was mentally prepared for a turnover when he got it).

Despite his end product or lack off it, he has turned into a very good wingback, but i still can't subscribe that it was a mistake/harsh to send him out on loan all these times, he's a rubbish winger.

On 5/23/2017 at 06:21, JJP said:

At this point i am willing to part ways with Zouma if it means we can sign VVD. Ake and Christensen need to be kept however

If we are spending 50 mill on his as the rumors indicate then i will not be happy. I would rather we use that money to upgrade our striker options. 

12 hours ago, brownindian said:

If we are spending 50 mill on his as the rumors indicate then i will not be happy. I would rather we use that money to upgrade our striker options. 

 

Agree, ive said from the beginning that 50/60m price tag is way too much. But ive come to terms recently that thats just how ridiculous prices are these days. At least VVD is still relatively young and has many years left at the top of his game.. Much better than buying a 30 year old CB

Just now, JJP said:

 

Agree, ive said from the beginning that 50/60m price tag is way too much. But ive come to terms recently that thats just how ridiculous prices are these days. At least VVD is still relatively young and has many years left at the top of his game.. Much better than buying a 30 year old CB

How much would JT in his prime be worth in the current climate? 50/60m?? If you want the best you pay market rate.

1 minute ago, the special one said:

How much would JT in his prime be worth in the current climate? 50/60m?? If you want the best you pay market rate.

JT in his prime would be worth more than that without a shadow of a doubt. 

Just now, JJP said:

JT in his prime would be worth more than that without a shadow of a doubt. 

Cognitive bias.

van Dijk's stats suggest he's just as good if not better than JT.

4 minutes ago, the special one said:

Cognitive bias.

van Dijk's stats suggest he's just as good if not better than JT.

He's not even a shadow of what JT was, that's simply ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Even Ricky and Gallas were a few levels above where VVD is. 

18 minutes ago, the special one said:

Cognitive bias.

van Dijk's stats suggest he's just as good if not better than JT.

And that's the reason you base nothing on stats alone, because he isn't anywhere near jt in his prime.

3 hours ago, the special one said:

Cognitive bias.

van Dijk's stats suggest he's just as good if not better than JT.

JT in his prime was a top 3, at worst top 5 CB in Europe and at times you could have called him the very best. One half of arguably the greatest CB pairing in Premier League history. Wtf has VVD done in his short career to ever be compared to prime JT? f**k whatever stats you're looking at.

I was simply saying his stats suggest he may be as good if not better than JT. I never explicitly said VVD IS better than JT. 

(and I was actually looking at the same squawka stats you posted on here last week)

Edited May 25, 20179 yr by the special one

30 minutes ago, the special one said:

I was simply saying his stats suggest he may be as good if not better than JT. I never explicitly said VVD IS better than JT. 

(and I was actually looking at the same squawka stats you posted on here last week)

Classic case of when stats don't tell the whole story 

2 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

JT in his prime was a top 3, at worst top 5 CB in Europe and at times you could have called him the very best. One half of arguably the greatest CB pairing in Premier League history. Wtf has VVD done in his short career to ever be compared to prime JT? f**k whatever stats you're looking at.

Saying VVD is better than JT based off barely half a season LOL!

VVD being compared to JT, probably the best CB to have played in PL. WOW!!!

Flavour of the month indeed!!!

11 hours ago, didierforever said:

VVD being compared to JT, probably the best CB to have played in PL. WOW!!!

Flavour of the month indeed!!!

Did VVD shag your high school sweetheart or something? Why every opportunity to take a pop? 

2 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Did VVD shag your high school sweetheart or something? Why every opportunity to take a pop? 

Well, that totally mature, to say the least.

Also, what do you say when someone uses half a season's stats to compare a mid table team player to a veteran of 22 years old. Seems fair, right?