9 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

The biggest clue, for me, is the way we sack managers as soon as they stop winning. Even if our managers aren't told it, they are well aware of the reality of the club. 

That's your opinion. Thanks. But, just like those who "always knew" KDB was going to be a huge star, and those who "just know" that Musonda is going to be a huge star, the chances are that none of those 3 will make it at the club, even if you think they could make it in your opinion. One has already left in fact, and the other two are on loan. Not because they aren't good enough to ever make it here (I think every player I mentioned was good enough to make it here in some capacity), but because we are churning young players, and we have been doing it over multiple managers. So maybe, just maybe, it's not the managers. And that's the point I'm making. 

But if you look at the cases of Jose mark 2 and Ancelotti, they didn't just stop winning, they stopped performing, the sheer time Jose got to turn thing's around is evidence enough Conte won't be sacked as long as we are evolving well and have respectable results.

Every player? Even Bamford? Or is it the clubs fault he was out of his depth at 4 PL clubs?

6 hours ago, Argo said:

But if you look at the cases of Jose mark 2 and Ancelotti, they didn't just stop winning, they stopped performing, the sheer time Jose got to turn thing's around is evidence enough Conte won't be sacked as long as we are evolving well and have respectable results.

Yes. The way we sacked a manager 6 months after he won the league and another manager for finishing 2nd the year after he won the league is definitive proof that we show our managers a lot of patience. Silly me. 

7 hours ago, Argo said:

Every player? Even Bamford? Or is it the clubs fault he was out of his depth at 4 PL clubs?

I'm not really interested in your (or anyone else's) personal opinions on every player we let go TBH. I'm more saying that we are buying a lot of players and letting a lot of players go, we have been doing this for quite a while across multiple managers, and the reason youngsters are getting lost in the shuffle is not the managers', but the shuffle's. 

Take Musonda. He is seemingly unhappy at not playing. If that situation doesn't change he will agitate for a move, and we will sell him. Is it inconceivable that he could go to Germany and do somewhere near as well as KDB? IMO no. Is it inconceivable that he could then get a big money move off the back of that form like KDB did? IMO no. Would there be a similar amount of handwringing if that were to happen? IMO absolutely. Would any of that make Conte wrong for not picking him right now? IMO not even slightly. 

And FWIW I don't think the board are trying to avoid this churn of players either. I think we encourage it and plan for it. I think that flipping players for a profit is part of the goal when we do these deals. If it wasn't we wouldn't have three teams worth of players on loan every season. We can't play them all. So what else are they for? And FWIW I think these players know that too, and part of what makes joining us attractive for a young player (along with the fat wages, best training facilities, loans to get you football) is that we are unlikely to stand in your way when you ask to move as long as we see a financial return. 

There is no point getting hung up on it, because you are going to see a lot of it. 

29 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

Yes. The way we sacked a manager 6 months after he won the league and another manager for finishing 2nd the year after he won the league is definitive proof that we show our managers a lot of patience. Silly me. 

Because we were fighting relegation making Roy's spell at Liverpool look like Barca under Pep, even Fergie would have been sweating for his job in those circumstances.

46 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

Take Musonda. He is seemingly unhappy at not playing. If that situation doesn't change he will agitate for a move, and we will sell him. Is it inconceivable that he could go to Germany and do somewhere near as well as KDB? IMO no.

But is it also inconceivable that he would bomb like all these other supposed "world class" players that we let go?

47 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

And FWIW I don't think the board are trying to avoid this churn of players either. I think we encourage it and plan for it. I think that flipping players for a profit is part of the goal when we do these deals. If it wasn't we wouldn't have three teams worth of players on loan every season. We can't play them all. So what else are they for? And FWIW I think these players know that too, and part of what makes joining us attractive for a young player (along with the fat wages, best training facilities, loans to get you football) is that we are unlikely to stand in your way when you ask to move as long as we see a financial return. 

We have the loan system to bridge the financial gap on clubs like Man.Utd. The end goal is we either have a superstar signing for free effectively, Courtois and Christensen would have cost £50m each to sign outright when we brought them back to play in the first team or we sell them on for profit to for all intents and purposes fund arrivals of new and superior players, like Lukaku basically paying for Costa.

Of Course we are attractive for young players. They get a world class education from fantastic coaches, are well looked after by the club when out on loan and whether they make it at Chelsea or not, for the most part they leave much, much better players than they would have had they not entered Cobham and even for the some who flatter to deceive ala Bamford get loans and then permanent moves at a much higher level than their talent level actually warrants.

45 minutes ago, Argo said:

But is it also inconceivable that he would bomb like all these other supposed "world class" players that we let go?

No. 

Improvement is not the only path for a young player. Some will. Some won't. And no manager who needs success in the here and now in order to avoid paying with his job is going to trust highly rated potential over proven quantities. That's why all our managers do pretty much the same thing and play the proven quantities the majority of the time. 

47 minutes ago, Argo said:

We have the loan system to bridge the financial gap on clubs like Man.Utd.

Which is what makes it pointless bitching about the players who don't make it here. We buy players as commodities. We don't have a plan, or a first team pathway. We buy loads of promising young players. Then we send them out on loan until it's make or break time, dump them into the first team squad (probably already unhappy at being a player of that sort of standing who doesn't know what their future holds...while their agent is in their ear telling them about all the clubs who want to make them first choice) and it doesn't matter if the manager needs players with those qualities or in that position. They just got to the point where we couldn't keep loaning them. Play them or lose them. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Because we were fighting relegation making Roy's spell at Liverpool look like Barca under Pep, even Fergie would have been sweating for his job in those circumstances.

That's a justification for something happening. Not saying it doesn't happen. 

7 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

 

I'm not really interested in your (or anyone else's) personal opinions

 

If your not really interested in your (or anyone else's) personal opinions.

Why join a football forum? as all forums are all about opinions, 

Quality manager Mourinho. Top 3 in the world. Unfortunately, proving it again at United.

All managers need their owners/board to back them. If not the result is usually heartache and failure.

Complicated concept I know.

On 2-10-2017 at 17:02, Slojo said:

I said at the time of selling De Bruyne that was one of our biggest mistakes, even with Sturridge. I highly rated De Bruyne at Genk, if anyone ever watched him play in that league when he was 18 you couldn't say otherwise that he would one day be a world beater. 

He was never given the chance at Chelsea despite playing well against Hull and grabbing the assist for the Oscar goal, Jose got rid of him, absolutely shocking move. As for Lukaku, I'm glad we got rid of him, his attitude stinks and I can't stand his football ability. 

I'm a Genk-fan, Slojo. I'm living in Genk. I have seen him growing up. (He and Courtois.)

And I have seen a lot of big European scouts for this kid.

At that time, everyone knew that some day ... and he's still getting better.

 

 

3 hours ago, Krc-fan said:

I'm a Genk-fan, Slojo. I'm living in Genk. I have seen him growing up. (He and Courtois.)

And I have seen a lot of big European scouts for this kid.

At that time, everyone knew that some day ... and he's still getting better.

 

 

Amazing player, so technically gifted in every way, not the most physical but makes up for it in skill. Although I will say he has very underrated power. 

12 hours ago, just said:

Quality manager Mourinho. Top 3 in the world. Unfortunately, proving it again at United.

Mou hasn't proven anything every game Man U has played in all competitions this season are rubbish, last season Man U came 6th. So tell me what has he proven?

13 hours ago, just said:

Quality manager Mourinho. Top 3 in the world. Unfortunately, proving it again at United.

All managers need their owners/board to back them. If not the result is usually heartache and failure.

Complicated concept I know.

So if the board don't provide our manager's with complete 100% backing it's acceptable to be 1 point off relegation after 16 games? Got it.

10 hours ago, Slojo said:

Amazing player, so technically gifted in every way, not the most physical but makes up for it in skill. Although I will say he has very underrated power. 

And he must have four lungs.

12 hours ago, Argo said:

So if the board don't provide our manager's with complete 100% backing it's acceptable to be 1 point off relegation after 16 games? Got it.

Not quite. But if the board doesn't support the manager enough to create depth of quality and a competitive squad, any manager will struggle when he has injuries and suspensions.