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Man Utd v Chelsea (PL) Sat 24th Oct 2020 17:30 GMT


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16 hours ago, Valerie said:

"He knew his limitations", are you serious? Setting aside your attempt at mindreading, you probably underestimate the self confidence of a man who has played in the Primera Division for years, and whose performances earned him a place in the Spain national squad. Cech among others - goalkeepers and outfield players - followed a similar career path to top clubs. Both Cech and Kepa made the step up to a higher level, and that is an obvious move for ambitious players. Some of them are a success, some not so much. To accuse the not so successful ones of accepting under false pretences a good contract for a job that is basically the same they've been doing for years is silly.

If you want to express your disappointment in Kepa, feel free, because criticism is part of the game. However, I suggest you base your criticism on how they play, not on your theories about they might possibly deviously plot to pull the wool over everybody's eyes.

Hi Valerie.

I was at pains, in my previous post, to make sure that my feelings regarding Kepa were just that, my feelings, a statement of opinion and not one of fact. The matter in discussion is subjective, you accuse me of attempting to mind read and yet you would have me believe that everything you say comes from a position of omniscience  -  you dont know any more than I do what Kepa was or wasn’t thinking when he signed for Chelsea - its your opinion and you are most welcome to have it, but it can only ever be your opinion.

The argument that you put forward for Kepa, is almost that he was some goalkeeping deity in the years preceding his move to London  - I freely admit that I don’t remember seeing Kepa play before his move to us, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of his performances, but his record, I don’t think, supports anything sensational so I don’t see the goalkeeper you describe  ?

To suggest that being selected to represent a country in and by itself means quality or ability, is misleading  - look at Pickford, he’s Englands or rather Southgate’s first choice keeper, but he definitely wouldnt be mine - likewise Rudiger, Low seemingly loves him and is a first choice at CB for the German national side, but Frank doesn’t see it the same way, to the point where he doesn't even even make the match day squad.

As far as Kepa’s goalkeeping record prior to joining Chelsea is concerned , you say he played Primera Division for years  ? I dont recognise this league, but Wikipedia tells me it’s the Argentinian league - you can’t mean that can you? I couldn’t find any record of him playing in Argentina, so I’m not sure thats correct, so unless you meant Primera Division Femenina - the women’s Spanish league ? - I imagine that you must be mistaken?

So unless I've completely got it wrong - which is perfectly possible of course and I’m certain you will correct me, I believe that he played in the Spanish leagues, mostly 2nd division and below with the exception of 2 seasons  when he played for Athletic Bilbao in La Liga - I dont believe he pulled up any stumps during those 2 seasons with Bilbao, finishing 7th and 16th respectively, although I assume that he played adequately enough for a mid-table finishing team ? 

I think it unfortunate that you mention Chec alongside Kepa - apart from them both being labelled goalkeepers, they are incomparable - I suggested, as an opinion, in an early post that the reason Chec has come out of retirement is because Kepa is so poor and his position untenable ?

It’s perfectly normal for people, not just footballers, to want to improve and better themselves, I encourage it and believe in it, but it has to be tinged with reality - maybe Kepa genuinely believes that he is the greatest goalkeeper in the world and that his time will come ? Maybe it will, but I don't see it.

You say;

“..........I suggest you base your criticism on how they play,.......”

Well, that rather proves the point , my opinion is based exactly on how he’s played !!   He’s been f**king rubbish, a talentless waster, who is a complete liability and someone in whom no f**ker has any confidence, trust or belief - I don't mean to be overly harsh but that is the reality.

My assertion of Kepa is based entirely on his performances, its not personal, I don't know the fella, I’m sure he’s a great guy, but its those performances that lead me to my conclusions and I don't for a second think that his performances of late are only of late - there is no suggestion on my part, as you allude, that there is some sinister and devious plot by Kepa to hoodwink anyone, but I would believe that Kepa has always known his limitations and that, putting goalkeeping ability to one side, those limitations have only increased with age when he didn't grow to have the stature of a Chec or Courtois.

In conclusion, I still hold the opinion that given Kepa’s abilities and my belief that he was aware of his limitations , that he doesn’t have the talent, quality nor ability to play, perhaps, anywhere in the premier league, he should not have signed for a team with Premier or Champions League aspirations and that to do so was under false pretences.

Anyways, I may well be wrong, but it is my sincerely held belief, I respect your opinion and that it differs from mine , but in the words of Forest Gump, thats all I want to say about that !!

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19 hours ago, Stim said:

Indeed. Assuming a top class athlete has the mindset of "maybe I'm not that good" is absolutely ridiculous.

Hi Stim,

I don’t know if Kepa is a world class athlete , I’m happy to believe that he is since you claim him to be so ?

What I do know is he isn't a very good goalkeeper.

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1 hour ago, Stim said:

I claimed he was top class.

You don't forrest gump your way into being a top flight league and international player.

HI Stim,

Apologies, you did claim that he was top class.

You don't forrest gump your way into being a top flight league and international player. 

I may well be wrong and he obviously has his supporters, but I just don't think he’s good enough to be playing top flight football ? And most definitely not at the level needed by Chelsea IMO.

I don't see it at international level either but Spain can pick him to their hearts content as far as I’m concerned.

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5 hours ago, Paddy said:

Hi Valerie.

I was at pains, in my previous post, to make sure that my feelings regarding Kepa were just that, my feelings, a statement of opinion and not one of fact. The matter in discussion is subjective, you accuse me of attempting to mind read and yet you would have me believe that everything you say comes from a position of omniscience  -  you dont know any more than I do what Kepa was or wasn’t thinking when he signed for Chelsea - its your opinion and you are most welcome to have it, but it can only ever be your opinion.

The argument that you put forward for Kepa, is almost that he was some goalkeeping deity in the years preceding his move to London  - I freely admit that I don’t remember seeing Kepa play before his move to us, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of his performances, but his record, I don’t think, supports anything sensational so I don’t see the goalkeeper you describe  ?

To suggest that being selected to represent a country in and by itself means quality or ability, is misleading  - look at Pickford, he’s Englands or rather Southgate’s first choice keeper, but he definitely wouldnt be mine - likewise Rudiger, Low seemingly loves him and is a first choice at CB for the German national side, but Frank doesn’t see it the same way, to the point where he doesn't even even make the match day squad.

As far as Kepa’s goalkeeping record prior to joining Chelsea is concerned , you say he played Primera Division for years  ? I dont recognise this league, but Wikipedia tells me it’s the Argentinian league - you can’t mean that can you? I couldn’t find any record of him playing in Argentina, so I’m not sure thats correct, so unless you meant Primera Division Femenina - the women’s Spanish league ? - I imagine that you must be mistaken?

So unless I've completely got it wrong - which is perfectly possible of course and I’m certain you will correct me, I believe that he played in the Spanish leagues, mostly 2nd division and below with the exception of 2 seasons  when he played for Athletic Bilbao in La Liga - I dont believe he pulled up any stumps during those 2 seasons with Bilbao, finishing 7th and 16th respectively, although I assume that he played adequately enough for a mid-table finishing team ? 

I think it unfortunate that you mention Chec alongside Kepa - apart from them both being labelled goalkeepers, they are incomparable - I suggested, as an opinion, in an early post that the reason Chec has come out of retirement is because Kepa is so poor and his position untenable ?

It’s perfectly normal for people, not just footballers, to want to improve and better themselves, I encourage it and believe in it, but it has to be tinged with reality - maybe Kepa genuinely believes that he is the greatest goalkeeper in the world and that his time will come ? Maybe it will, but I don't see it.

You say;

“..........I suggest you base your criticism on how they play,.......”

Well, that rather proves the point , my opinion is based exactly on how he’s played !!   He’s been f**king rubbish, a talentless waster, who is a complete liability and someone in whom no f**ker has any confidence, trust or belief - I don't mean to be overly harsh but that is the reality.

My assertion of Kepa is based entirely on his performances, its not personal, I don't know the fella, I’m sure he’s a great guy, but its those performances that lead me to my conclusions and I don't for a second think that his performances of late are only of late - there is no suggestion on my part, as you allude, that there is some sinister and devious plot by Kepa to hoodwink anyone, but I would believe that Kepa has always known his limitations and that, putting goalkeeping ability to one side, those limitations have only increased with age when he didn't grow to have the stature of a Chec or Courtois.

In conclusion, I still hold the opinion that given Kepa’s abilities and my belief that he was aware of his limitations , that he doesn’t have the talent, quality nor ability to play, perhaps, anywhere in the premier league, he should not have signed for a team with Premier or Champions League aspirations and that to do so was under false pretences.

Anyways, I may well be wrong, but it is my sincerely held belief, I respect your opinion and that it differs from mine , but in the words of Forest Gump, thats all I want to say about that !!

Thank you for taking the time to respond so elaborately. I remain puzzled why you extend your (justified) criticism to Kepa as a person, whose thoughts you presumably do not know. But fair play, let's end this discussion and fervently hope Mendy will grow into his role even more than he already has, and will not get injured again :greysweat:

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2 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Thank you for taking the time to respond so elaborately. I remain puzzled why you extend your (justified) criticism to Kepa as a person, whose thoughts you presumably do not know. But fair play, let's end this discussion and fervently hope Mendy will grow into his role even more than he already has, and will not get injured again :greysweat:

Amen to that .

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Maybe everyone would feel a little bit bouncier had we grabbed all three points at Old Trafford, but even though a draw was a fair result, the failure to award a penalty to Cesar Azpilicueta was a long way from being fair. The rules for what is and isn’t a penalty seem to change most weeks at the moment, but I am sure that at no time has it stated you need three falls and a submission for a penalty to be awarded. It really did look much closer to wrestling than football, and it is beyond me that the Video Assistant Referee came to the same conclusion as the on-field referee. That is not a problem with the VAR system itself, that is basic human error. 
 

Wee Pats ‘opinion’  of the Dave Non Penalty. In his latest column on the club site. www.chelsea.com

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4 hours ago, erskblue said:

Maybe everyone would feel a little bit bouncier had we grabbed all three points at Old Trafford, but even though a draw was a fair result, the failure to award a penalty to Cesar Azpilicueta was a long way from being fair. The rules for what is and isn’t a penalty seem to change most weeks at the moment, but I am sure that at no time has it stated you need three falls and a submission for a penalty to be awarded. It really did look much closer to wrestling than football, and it is beyond me that the Video Assistant Referee came to the same conclusion as the on-field referee. That is not a problem with the VAR system itself, that is basic human error. 
 

Wee Pats ‘opinion’  of the Dave Non Penalty. In his latest column on the club site. www.chelsea.com

Human error? Or a deliberate decision to completely overlook a blatant foul in the box?

Consistency is the issue here.

Anyone remember when we played at OT in 2014? This was the talking point after the game:

Quote

John Terry has claimed he and Branislav Ivanovic were 'double headlocked from every corner' during Chelsea's draw with Manchester United on Sunday.

During the first half of the game at Old Trafford, which finished 1-1, Marcos Rojo appeared to wrestle Terry to the ground while Chris Smalling had hold off Ivanovic as United defended a corner. 

Pictures clearly show the United defenders grabbing their Chelsea counterparts around the neck but referee Phil Dowd failed to spot the infringements.

1414437318965_wps_5_Manchester_United_v_

Edited by Backbiter
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