2 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Not Tosh.

Is so.

2 hours ago, Valerie said:

And England aren't good enough.

Aren't good enough for what? To win the World cup? No they were not good enough to win the World Cup. But they should have beaten a very ordinary and not great Argentina side. All is moot and what happened . .. well it happened

56 minutes ago, dermott said:

Is so.

Pffffttt

s'not.

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

"It's a matter of their nationality and we respect it"

f**k off, twat.

The blokes a complete bell end. Changes the rules to suit as far as I can see. And he looks like The Hood from Thunderbirds. "Calling International Rescue"

1 hour ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Pffffttt

s'not.

Is! So there!

1 hour ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Aren't good enough for what? To win the World cup? No they were not good enough to win the World Cup. But they should have beaten a very ordinary and not great Argentina side. All is moot and what happened . .. well it happened

Clearly not good enough to beat Argentina. Even if England had beaten a much more wiley and clever Argentina, I would not have put a single penny on them beating Spain in the final. England haven't been worth a cheeky punt to win the World Cup for ages. As someone said earlier (sorry, can't remember who), England are theTottenham Hotspur of international tournaments.

But.. it's the Euros in 2 years' time, time enough to gather new hope!

1 hour ago, Scott said:

Trump and isreal are going to do their best to fix it.. They don't like Spain at all. 🤔

7 hours ago, Zeta said:

Which points do you want me to debate?

If it's about leaving some players behind who are better on the ball, yes, I agree we should have brought some differernt players. I don't watch much beyond CHelsea, so can't comment on players form this year, but I would have brought people like Trent, Foden, maybe Wharton who had a good season I believe. And left people like |Henderson, Chalobah, etc... at home. He could have used Mainoo in the middle as well.

If it's about him failing to change the mindset - yes, he did. But this is something I don't think you can lay entirely on the manager. You can try as hard as you like, but you can't change what's going on inside another man's head, and if 11 of them decide that they are under too much pressure to push forward and naturally retreat, it's very hard to change that. In that scenario where the team is going against instruction and won't do anything but defend, I'm not sure there are many managers who could motivate them out of it.

I agree with a lot of the points in isolation. What I don't agree with is laying 100% of the blame on the manager, when clearly the players were A) either not good enough, or not mentally/physically up for the fight, and B) didn't do what the manager wanted them to do.

I kind of disagree... I expected far more than throwing on defenders... I couldnt see if he was urging players to get up the pitch, its not normal for a goalkeeper to go long at every opportunity at international level. The squad was horrendously underused and throwing on Tony with a minute to go is a desperate move. For all his faults Southgate got this team to where they are. that was using an internal coach promotion like Argentina.

Scaloni, ex international player with little coaching history before being the manager, has utilised the absolute stregnths of his players. This is a wiki entry - "Scaloni began his coaching career in 2016, (Ten years!!!!) starting as an assistant at Sevilla and Argentina's under-20 team. In 2018, he was named the outright manager of the under-20 team, and was chosen to lead the Argentina senior team later that year."

Scaloni has done tuchel, absolutely done him in the semi final in the last 20 minutes. Martinez, de paul, were instantly beyond the match tempo and his team were pugnatious all over the pitch in England palyers faces, they were horribly ruthless. Our three lions didnt have a tooth between them.

Above all else I just didnt see to much fight in the side in a semi final of a world cup. Think the next manager needs to be Lee Carsley, get the best out of the players from the winning under 21 side etc. It is probably the best/most sensible hire we can get who knows the players and how they can win together. Keep Kane around for the Euros, bring others through, You look at the type of players who have made it to the final, then look at our bit part squad, Tuchel gambled and failed like many before him, best move him on.

(Wiki) England national team

On 9 August 2024, Carsley was appointed interim head coach of England men's national football team after Gareth Southgatedeparted the role.^[79] He said "As I am very familiar with the players and the cycle of international football, it makes sense for me to guide the team while the FA continues the process to recruit a new manager".^[80] During his tenure as interim head coach, he gave senior England debuts to Noni Madueke, Tino Livramento, Curtis Jones, Morgan Rogers, Morgan Gibbs-White, Angel Gomes, Taylor Harwood-Bellis and Lewis Hall.^[81]

(these players would have energy through the squad and we missed it - Carsley has won the UEFA Under 21 European Championship back to back... It will be criminal to keep Tuchel on under the circumstances blocking the developent of an excellent Manager who's won things with two sets of players at international level.

Fair?