Pick a system any system

[Pauly]

When Jose got dropped I for one noticed an immediate instructional change in the formation. Joe cole played closer to the striker on the back post, malouda was similar to what you would expect in the JM days, and Mikel IMO was given instruction to get closer to the striker. This was initially i'm saying, in the first games Grant took over.

Since then we've seen an attacking player (SWP) installed into midfield- much to my and Ballack's delight, as in the old Eidur in CM days.

And recently, in the last two crucial games, CC final and CL, Grant has gone back to this absurdly sh*t block midfield that kills everyone who watches it slowly from the inside out.

also tried anelka left midfield.

I admit it's a contentious issue as to whether he should try to implement his own short passing system (which is the other thing he obviously instructed and trained players to be doing) before he has the personnel he wants/requires for it- because you have to start playing the players who will stay in the 11 if he does bring in a couple of others in LW/CM for example. But I wonder now what his favoured formation is- he seems to be changing it for games, which is fine, but not so if the strategy doesn't suit the players in there.

Playing Mikel/Essien/Lampard and expecting the same game as playing maka ballack swp is absurd. So i wonder now what he exactly wants...

For me, we undoubtedly played out best football in the last.. well.. since LeBeef was sending passes to Zola who was sending them to poyet who knocked them down for flo who crossed for dennis wise to break somebodies leg, was when we were playing Duff/Robben/Gudjohnsen and a striker, and playing in the opponents half. It works for 3 reasons. The first is pressing- without that extra player pushing into AM and the entire team pushing a little forward into the opponents half, pressing with one ("three") up front is impossible useless and makes the striker look ridiculous. secondly it makes sides think/worry, it uses the supposed quality of these defensive midfielders we have.. gets them to work, and thirdly, it takes pressure off the entire attacking team.

Ballack and Lampard CAN work, but not nearly as well as Ballack and a player that moves and asks for the ball like SWP. It takes you back to the old Robben/Duff days when everyone was complaining that they'd gone sh*t and couldn't beat a man any more. If you play a defensive block of 3 then expect 2 wide players to do all your attacking with no movement, 12 defenders will flock to them instinctively and because it's obvious before the game.

Grant started well no doubt, but it's time to make your mind up avram!

[just]

That felt like being back at school during one of Mrs Mangan's science lessons! When she stopped talking we'd all look blankly at each other for a minute and then Kev Sheedy would put his hand up and say "Miss. Miss, what was that last bit again"?

Wasn't it Brian Clough who once famously said something along the lines of .......

"football is a simple game" Only players and coaches make it more difficult than it is"

After reading that post Pauly, I think I know what he was getting at!

[Pauly]

yes there was another guy who said only the stupid try to simplify what's complicated and sh*t on the beautiful complexity of it... can't remember his name... must have died poor and unsuccessful. Fyodor maybe? ;)

[just]

I doubt it was Fyodor who said that. He took us for P.E.

Pauly if you're not doing anything could you help me with my astrophysics and advanced calculus homework?

[dkw]

i watched a programme a couple of nights ago where stephen hawkings confused me with all kinds of rubbish. but it was a hell of a lot more understandable than that. well done.

[Pauly]

Just, Obviously, you need a picture. I should have expected this earlier considering you are admittedly at a 5th grade reading level, but put down Mrs. Sugar's Magical Day and pay attention.

Let's say the big green thing is the pitch, and the big Black blobs are Burly English Defenders and midfielders: Ie.

And the big Pink blob is Just. and the other blobs are just's friends in the english 12 division over 35's single men with bulldogs league.

now this picture should show you how it is so early for poor just up front to get into quite a huff and mess up his beautiful curly 1980's hair.

[Elliott]

Ok, Pauly has made a few points here, and I think what he is saying IS;

• When we play with three very static midfielders such as Essien, Ballack, and Lamps, (although they are good at going from box to box) they offer little else in terms of movement, and creating angles for each other. This then leaves the attacking impetus with our wingers; i.e Joe Cole and Malouda for example, and leaves our team very easy to play against.

• Back in the days of Guddy, Robben, & Duff (when, I agree, we played our most attractive stuff) we there had three very interchangeable players, and in Gudjohnson, a player that could also drop deep and create attacks from midfield. This made us bloody difficult to play against.

• Avram hasn’t got a clue.

Am I at least half right there Pauly?

[Pauly]

didn't you see the f**king picture?

[just]

Pauly this thread proves, once and for all, that you need to find a full-time job more desparately than anyone in the history of mankind.

Not a teaching career though.

[Elliott]

Oh i forgot to mention - how these points then form an argument; I have no idea.

[Pauly]

sitting fairly nicely there Brutus for a man on 1063 posts.... if you want another picture post just ask...

[just]

Get out your text-books. I think I can expand on Pauly's theory with this:

General defensive tactics

All eleven players on the pitch have a defensive role. Which roles they are assigned, depends on tactics. In principle, there are two ways of defending, zone defense and man-to-man defense. In a zone defense, defensive players mainly move in relation to each other, whereas a man-to-man defense mainly moves in relation to opposing players. Whenever defensive players are given, or give themselves, a larger degree of freedom, hybrids of the two are seen.

First, second and third defender

The first defender has the main responsibility for what the opponent in possession does, seeking to obstruct dangerous passes. The first seconds after the team has lost the ball are important, as the defending team in these seconds will be poorly organised defensively. Wise first defending will contribute to the defending team managing to organise before the opponents may attack.

The first defender should usually be the player closest to the opponent holding possession, but needs to be at the defending side of him in order to do an effective job. He should keep a distance of about 2 metres, although the ideal distance will vary with each situation. The point is to pressure the opponent as much as possible without giving him a large possibility of a dribble. As a dribble isn't as dangerous when the defending team is well organised, the distance may be shorter in these cases. Analogously, the distance should be increased if the defense is poorly organised.

In certain cases, the first defender should attempt a tackle. Often, however, this will increase the probability of being dribbled and passed.

The direction in which to move towards the opponent with possession of the ball may be the shortest direction. However, it may be of value to curve the defensive run, in order to channel the opponent in a certain direction. If the defensive team is well organised, he should be channeled towards the centre of the pitch. In the case of temporarily poor defensive organisation, however, he should be channeled towards the line.

The second defender is for security if the first defender is passed. In that case, he takes over as first defender, and ideally one of the third defenders takes over as second defender. The team should be organised in a manner to make this transition as fast as possible. The typical ideal distance between the second and first defender is about six metres, but this will vary strongly from situation to situation. The most important factor is the opponent's speed. If he's moving fast, the distance should be longer. If he's standing still, the second and first defender may in some cases join forces and work as two first defenders.

While the role of first and second defenders are rather similar, the third defenders' role is very different in zone defense and man-to-man defense. Also, their organisation will vary with formation.

Pressure lines in zone defense

In zone defense, second and third defenders and midfielders are organised in two lines, in the transverse direction of the field, thus organising a defender line and a midfielder line, the midfielder line working as an "outer shield" for the defenders. The lines should be as straight as possible, although the first defender and in some cases the second defender may rush out of it to pressure the opponent with the ball. A straight line of defenders may prevent spaces behind some of them due to the offside rule. Also, even in zone defense, some opponents, for example those moving into dangerous space, may temporarily need to be marked. The man-to-man defense ideology holds that almost all opponents need to be marked at all times, although they will have to keep an eye on zone considerations as well, and usually a sweeper will be given a free defensive role. In practice, however, every defense will be a mix of zone defense and a man-to-man defense, although often with heavy leanings towards one or the other.

The number of players in the defender and midfielder lines is given by the number of football formations. Some formations use midfield anchors to stop attacks between the two lines. Attackers usually also play a role in pressurising defenders, in order to give them less time to find good passing alternatives.

The lines should be shifted sideways depending where the ball is. The third defenders should keep a sensible distance to each other, depending on the width the opponent's attacking players are distributed in.

Depth considerations

The distance between the defender line and the midfielder line should be kept constant at about 15 metres. However, the defensive line should back up and thus increase this distance, stand off, when there is no pressure on the opponent in possession, as this increases the possibility of a through ball. With tough pressure on the opponent, the distance may be reduced to below 15 metres. Also, as opponents move in close to the penalty area, the defending team will be forced to move their midfielders ever closer to their defenders.

When organised, the defending team will offer no resistance until the attacking team has advanced to a certain height on the pitch. The pressure height, or at which depth the midfielders should start acting as first and second defenders, depends on a lot of factors. For example, as higher pressure is more tiring, it demands players with good stamina. In general, a defensive-minded team will tend to stay lower, thus diminishing defensive risks as opponents get less space. This however, also gives them a longer way to the goal in the event of a break and counter-attack, making the long through ball a typical alternative.

Defensive play in man-to-man defense

In a man-to-man defense system, a 'sweeper' is a central defender who has a free role, i.e. has not been assigned a player to mark. He sometimes takes up a position slightly behind the other defenders, as his defensive role often is to 'sweep up' any attacks that break through the defence and as such he adds valuable depth to the defensive unit. Usually the sweeper will be the controller of the defence. They will determine where the back line should be at any given time. Zone defense does not require a sweeper role, and as many teams have changed their tactics to this, sweepers are today rare.

If you are defending someone, wait for the ball to be passed to them, time your run so that you reach the ball, just as it is about a foot away from the intended receiver. If the person you are playing against is good at soccer (football), they will get their body in the way. If this is the case, give them some room, about a yard, and try to prevent them from turning. Always remain goalside (with yourself closer to the goal than you opponent, so that they can not score.

Roman and Avram sit up and pay attention. You better be writing this down. There is a test tonight.

[Tim W]

First time I've heard that sobber

[Valerie]

Just, please tell me your post was a copy-and-paste job. If not, I may have to accuse you of being a civil servant.

[just]

Just, please tell me your post was a copy-and-paste job. If not, I may have to accuse you of being a civil servant.

It's from my book Val.

"Advanced Football Theory - Volumes 1 - 347"

I garauntee anyone who studies it will become a bona fide expert and will even understand those tactical flipchart drawing thingys with the dots and arrows on.

Kevin Keegan swears by it.

[BLUENUT]

Just, please tell me your post was a copy-and-paste job. If not, I may have to accuse you of being a civil servant.

It's from my book Val.

"Advanced Football Theory - Volumes 1 - 347"

I garauntee anyone who studies it will become a bona fide expert and will even understand those tactical flipchart drawing thingys with the dots and arrows on.

Kevin Keegan swears by it.

Avram has the brail version

[Valerie]

Just, please tell me your post was a copy-and-paste job. If not, I may have to accuse you of being a civil servant.

It's from my book Val.

"Advanced Football Theory - Volumes 1 - 347"

I garauntee anyone who studies it will become a bona fide expert and will even understand those tactical flipchart drawing thingys with the dots and arrows on.

Kevin Keegan swears by it.

Advanced??? I'd say it's basic stuff for beginners (not to use the word 'dummies') . Send it to Avram, the man must start somewhere.

[Pauly]

was it really so complicated? i thought what i said was utterly simple.... maybe you just like repeating that football is a simple game line i've heard it about 8 times now...

points were, if you care to respond, that grant started with one style of football, and since has tried a different midfield, one with SWP in CM which has seen ballack shine, and also the block midfield which dismally lost the CC final and drew 0-0 in the CL first leg.

second point was simply that attacking players play well when they have more movement and attacking players around them...

third point was that we press better with a midfielder higher up than what we have if Ballack/Lamps/Essien play in CM compared to say Maka/Lamps/Eidur.

i don't think that's so overly complicated and i think you reduce football down to something petty and stupid if you can't even talk about that without disdain...

[Elliott]

Hmmm..... you are right Pauly.

It can be such a chore to converse with such dimwitted cretins.

[mad_mac]

Wait a minute, your pitch has 13 players on it!

[Guest Brian M]

It's from my book Val. "Advanced Football Theory - Volumes 1 - 347"

Probably just as well for Chelsea that Jimmy threw away all 347 volumes and instead opted for the, 'Ignore Just's drunken ramblings and just score a sh*t load of goals' school of football excellence, like all the great strikers before and after him.

[just]

It's from my book Val. "Advanced Football Theory - Volumes 1 - 347"

Probably just as well for Chelsea that Jimmy threw away all 347 volumes and instead opted for the, 'Ignore Just's drunken ramblings and just score a sh*t load of goals' school of football excellence, like all the great strikers before and after him.

Bri I am afraid you won't be to follow mine and Pauly's text-books. Way too advanced for a beginner. You need to learn the basics first.

Here's something to start you off.

[Guest Brian M]

It's from my book Val. "Advanced Football Theory - Volumes 1 - 347"

Probably just as well for Chelsea that Jimmy threw away all 347 volumes and instead opted for the, 'Ignore Just's drunken ramblings and just score a sh*t load of goals' school of football excellence, like all the great strikers before and after him.

Bri I am afraid you won't be to follow mine and Pauly's text-books. Way too advanced for a beginner. You need to learn the basics first.

Here's something to start you off.

Ha! Football advice from a man who once argued - straight faced mind you - that Jimmy's goals were responsible for Madrid getting relegated!!! THE CHEEK!

[just]

See above for another complete and utter fabrication from the odd mind of Brian M.

[mad_mac]

a midfield with Sweepy in it today, with Essien and ballack. And then then Nic Malouda and Joey up front....lets see how that works. 0-0 so far, but a lot of chances created