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Have we done that bad?


Chippy

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Looking at the season so far and reading the posts on here got me to questioning my own nature as I trudge on with my usual Glass half full optimism,

I find it quite a laugh to see my posts shot down so here go's a new target for you icon_lol.gif

September looked bleak, Chelsea not playing well, over run by Liverpool nicking a draw, losing to Villa, Essien not looking half the player he did last year, bottom of CL Group, Jose gone...

Grant takes over and I am amazed that a man with such little credentials has got the job,

Chelsea Blue tints on and I think right Roman must have faith and its his money so get behind the bloke,

We lose at OT and so far Grant has had no training sessions with the team so I just discount it thinking the form we were in we would have lost that anyway, espessially with Mikels sending off and Drogba out.

Injuries mount and so do my fears unyet we get a good run of results while not looking much different except here and there where the fullbacks get forward more and the team attacks in packs, these games are scattered betwen the usual strangle the life out of teams Jose style games which are keeping results stable even with a weakened squad,

We pull it round in the CL and some good results se us top the group although a loss at the emirates with a rare mistake by Cech and some dodgy finishing from Sheva and SWP sees a player that we should never have let go come back to haunt us,

Another decent run in the league and the gap at the top starts to look almost sumountable with even the form two finding it tough in a strong premier league,

We manage to equal our nine game winning record and have a 10 point from 12 December where I expected us to drop back,

we lose in the CC Final and it hurts, more so because of the opponents and the way the team played, I have my first big doubts about the new manager as he plays Anelka wide and he plays like Sheva under Jose,

The team looks like they lack motivation, this is a cup final ffs, whats happening? is it downt to Avi or Cate? JT has a go in HT ET but its too little too late and although Drogs had layed down more thn stood up he still manages to score our only goal as we go down, Gutted,

We seem to be struggling since the big boys come back and although people say its down to Grants selections I feel its more because the big boys are not performing too well,

Oh well we are still in three competitions right, Wrong after playing eleven internationals against Barnsley we lose 1-0 on a pitch Wenger would have loved, Avi's team selection is picked at and his motivation again in doubt (even for me),

Arsenal struggle with Wigan and a result that would hasve had Grant slated go's under Arsenes belt while UTD look at a 2 point gap with a game in hand,

I try my best to give the manager the benefit of the doubt as I feel the players have let him down,

I look at whats left...

The laegue table amazes me, in September I feared we would struggle for a CL place unyet we are concievably in with a shout,

The CL standings show we are in the last eight,

None of the top four stayed in the CC longer than us, none of the top four stayed in the FA Cup longer than us,

with two months left of the season I am surprised how well we have done and amazed that I actually feel dissapointed by it.

My Glass is almost three quarters full icon_lol.gif

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Well let me be the first to answer your question Chippy icon_lol.gif

No, we haven't done that bad. Or rather, I think you are asking has Grant done that bad. Still the answer is no.

Overall he has done pretty well.

Unfortunately for him and for us too, he hasn't been able to win the big matches. The one's that really matter. The one's that result in silverware.

We are still in with a shout of two competitions - the two which, given a choice, I would take over the FA and Carling Cups.

If we can go on to win those then I will be so very happy and more than happy to back Grant as manager for the longer term.

In the meantime I shall continue to support the team and any doubts about Grant will be restricted to this forum.

If we end up trophyless this season then I will want a change of manager.

To sum up. As it stands Grant is 0 for 2 in the two best chances for silverware this season. He has a lot of hard work to do to pull that back.

Oh, and my glass seems to have a hole in the bottom of it! 247.gif

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Well let me be the first to answer your question Chippy icon_lol.gif

No, we haven't done that bad. Or rather, I think you are asking has Grant done that bad. Still the answer is no.

Overall he has done pretty well.

Unfortunately for him and for us too, he hasn't been able to win the big matches. The one's that really matter. The one's that result in silverware.

We are still in with a shout of two competitions - the two which, given a choice, I would take over the FA and Carling Cups.

If we can go on to win those then I will be so very happy and more than happy to back Grant as manager for the longer term.

In the meantime I shall continue to support the team and any doubts about Grant will be restricted to this forum.

If we end up trophyless this season then I will want a change of manager.

To sum up. As it stands Grant is 0 for 2 in the two best chances for silverware this season. He has a lot of hard work to do to pull that back.

Oh, and my glass seems to have a hole in the bottom of it! 247.gif

It is'nt painfull to have optimism in fact it's pretty useful icon_lol.gif

What you seem to miss out on in the message of the post is that suprisingly we hav'nt done too bad,

You can keep coming back to the losses in the big games and I can keep quoting the dire circumstances involved in 2 and the lack of spirit involved in the other 2 and these will be our opinions so we will argue them for ever, what you surely cant argue is that we are in a better position and have done better in competitions than many of us would have imagined in September.

Good to see you still stamp the end of your post with the 247.gif point taken icon_wink.gif

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Well let me be the first to answer your question Chippy icon_lol.gif

No, we haven't done that bad. Or rather, I think you are asking has Grant done that bad. Still the answer is no.

Overall he has done pretty well.

Unfortunately for him and for us too, he hasn't been able to win the big matches. The one's that really matter. The one's that result in silverware.

We are still in with a shout of two competitions - the two which, given a choice, I would take over the FA and Carling Cups.

If we can go on to win those then I will be so very happy and more than happy to back Grant as manager for the longer term.

In the meantime I shall continue to support the team and any doubts about Grant will be restricted to this forum.

If we end up trophyless this season then I will want a change of manager.

To sum up. As it stands Grant is 0 for 2 in the two best chances for silverware this season. He has a lot of hard work to do to pull that back.

Oh, and my glass seems to have a hole in the bottom of it! 247.gif

It is'nt painfull to have optimism in fact it's pretty useful icon_lol.gif

What you seem to miss out on in the message of the post is that suprisingly we hav'nt done too bad,

You can keep coming back to the losses in the big games and I can keep quoting the dire circumstances involved in 2 and the lack of spirit involved in the other 2 and these will be our opinions so we will argue them for ever, what you surely cant argue is that we are in a better position and have done better in competitions than many of us would have imagined in September.

Good to see you still stamp the end of your post with the 247.gif point taken icon_wink.gif

As you know, I couldn't disagree with you more. But it passes the time of day.

And "not doing as badly as you thought we might" is a philosophy of sorts I suppose. I doubt it is the bedrock for success though.

You may be surprised to learn that I am an optimist by nature, but if I am going to be optimistic I need something to fuel that optimism. At the moment the tank is empty.

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As you know, I couldn't disagree with you more. But it passes the time of day.

And "not doing as badly as you thought we might" is a philosophy of sorts I suppose. I doubt it is the bedrock for success though.

You may be surprised to learn that I am an optimist by nature, but if I am going to be optimistic I need something to fuel that optimism. At the moment the tank is empty.

Not doing as badly as we thought is not my philosophy as you know that is just an attempt at calming the mood on here,

I feel we are doing pretty good concidering the events of the seaon and the fact Grant has only brought in one player,

the bedrock of success will only come if a man is given time to bring in players and mould the team into the style he wants them to play,

a good pointer for me that he might be able to do that is if that man can do reasonably well with a team set out to best play in a style of another manager,

I'm glad you are optimistic by nature as I can sense that you will enjoy the rest of the season as much as I will whatever the trophy count knowing that the next year could be Quad year icon_wink.gif

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Chippy, please don't take offence - just wanted to address your points one by one...

September looked bleak' date=' Chelsea not playing well, over run by Liverpool nicking a draw...[/quote']

Since when was nicking a draw away to Loserpool with a half fit team a bad result?

losing to Villa' date='[/quote']

Agreed. Terrible result. In hindsight I think no one knew how much Villa would have improved this season, but that's immaterial.

Essien not looking half the player he did last year

Sorry' date=' but Essien's form was acceptable until Jose was sacked.

bottom of CL Group

LOL After one game. But of course, it took the genious of Avi to resurrect our CL campaign otherwise Jose would have had us out in the group stage. Possibly by the third match of the groups stage. Yes, I'll agree with that. clap2.gif

Grant takes over and I am amazed that a man with such little credentials has got the job

I believe we have a winner for understatement of the year award.

Chelsea Blue tints on and I think right Roman must have faith and its his money so get behind the bloke' date='[/quote']

Your choice but fair enough.

We lose at OT and so far Grant has had no training sessions with the team so I just discount it thinking the form we were in we would have lost that anyway' date=' espessially with Mikels sending off and Drogba out.[/quote']

Agreed. And' date=' I'll add, that it appeared during this match, at least while it was still even strength teams, our players were giving it their all.

Injuries mount and so do my fears unyet we get a good run of results while not looking much different except here and there where the fullbacks get forward more and the team attacks in packs' date=' these games are scattered betwen the usual strangle the life out of teams Jose style games which are keeping results stable even with a weakened squad,[/quote']

Agreed, but the teams Avi beat during his miracle run are shoite. Yes, you still have to beat them, and if anything this weekend has reaffirmed you can't just show up and win. But still, those teams are dross, and if Avi hadn't gone on his miracle run against the dregs of the league, then he'd have been sacked a long time ago.

Also the injuries we've had this season, although more numerous, have not been as serious as losing Cech for 4 months and Terry for 3 (cumulative). I say that only because last season we had no cover for JT when Kenyon sold Gallas right at the close of the transfer window. (allegedly against a certain manager's wishes)

We pull it round in the CL and some good results se us top the group although a loss at the emirates with a rare mistake by Cech

I'm sorry mate' date=' but it can't always be the keeper's fault. Arsenal, Rottenham, Barnsley - if we just had a decent keeper then maybe Avi wouldn't be in the mess he's in now, eh?

and some dodgy finishing from Sheva and SWP

haha, has there ever been anythign else from Sheva since he's joined us? I mean really, this is the player who is outmuscled by Aaron Lennon and couldn't outrun a snail if his life depended on it. Not Sheva's fault he was placed in a position to fail so thoroughly yet again. That decision lies elswhere. And SWP? The boy who's second touch is always a tackle and who makes Gronks crosses look like laser guided missiles. Ahh yes, if it weren't for those two messing things up we would be right there.

sees a player that we should never have let go come back to haunt us' date='[/quote']

Jose's biggest mistake was not knowing how to handle Gallas. I agree with you wholeheartedly that he should have never left us. Remember, when he cleared the ball off the line in the CL Semi vs Liverpool saving a sure goal?

Another decent run in the league and the gap at the top starts to look almost sumountable with even the form two finding it tough in a strong premier league' date='[/quote']

I'm sorry Chippy, but Avi's only decent runs have all seem to come against teams we should put 6 past. We did against City which was great and gave me momentary hope that I was wrong about him. And for the points gap, well it actually got wider. How is that if Avi's doing so well guiding us to unprecendented win streaks that the points gap goes from 2 points when he took over to 9 points just a few days ago?

we lose in the CC Final and it hurts' date=' more so because of the opponents and the way the team played, I have my first big doubts about the new manager as he plays Anelka wide and he plays like Sheva under Jose,[/quote']

Not only that, but the manner in which we simply rolled over and allowed them boss our midfield was particularly disappointing (for me at least).

The team looks like they lack motivation' date=' this is a cup final ffs, whats happening? is it downt to Avi or Cate? JT has a go in HT ET but its too little too late and although Drogs had layed down more thn stood up he still manages to score our only goal as we go down, Gutted,

Oh well we are still in three competitions right, Wrong after playing eleven internationals against Barnsley we lose 1-0 on a pitch Wenger would have loved, Avi's team selection is picked at and his motivation again in doubt (even for me),[/quote']

Hear, hear! Glad to see you're coming to see things as they truly are. To call Avi inept would be an insult to ineptitude across the planet.

Arsenal struggle with Wigan and a result that would hasve had Grant slated go's under Arsenes belt while UTD look at a 2 point gap with a game in hand' date='[/quote']

Oh but that are slating him and rightly so. Wenger has bottled it (again) and it appears his "young" team are still suffering from the thrashing received at OT. Have a look over at the game thread on AWIMB. They are calling for Wenger's head if he loses the Prem they had "wrapped up" this season. Which would be just as big a mistake as sacking Jose has been for us.

I try my best to give the manager the benefit of the doubt as I feel the players have let him down' date='[/quote']

I feel just the opposite. I feel he has let the players (and supporters) down by conning his way into a position for which he does not have the requisite skill. Worse than that, he can't even hire a staff to properly do his work for him when he says he uses a delegation style of management. The players will not play for him and to expect them to play for the love of Chelsea simply because you or I would do it is nonsense.

The whole thing is not just a farce, it's the worst kind of farce - a totally unnecessary one.

I look at whats left...

The laegue table amazes me' date=' in September I feared we would struggle for a CL place unyet we are concievably in with a shout,[/quote']

Chippy, I know its just opinion and you're obviously entitled to yours. But if, on the basis of current results you see us winning out from here, against Man U and Arsenal, then please pass whatever you're having to me. That doesn't take into account possible dropped points at Rottenham and Everton, too.

The CL standings show we are in the last eight' date='[/quote']

Which is still not close to where we should be given the expenditure of nearly £500m on players. Jose got us to the Semi Final in his first year, Grant should do at least the same.

None of the top four stayed in the CC longer than us' date=' none of the top four stayed in the FA Cup longer than us,[/quote']

Actually Chippy, that makes it worse for me. You see, I think there's no excuse for us not winning that CC, especially as it was the one Grant needed the most to deny his detractors more ammunition. So, in the biggest game of Grant's 30 years of managerial experience, he bottles it. Not just bottles it, but completely loses the plot and is shown to be incapable of "managing" his team due to his delegation theory of management. He follows that up by bottling a golden chance to win the FA Cup and silence his detractors once again. The man is a born loser and it's not funny anymore.

Also, the comparisons you make above only work if based against teams which have similar resources and investment as we have - that means Man U and no one else. If we were still clipping along under Bates and managing what you described, then fine, that would be performing above what's expected. Fact is, we have two full teams of Internationals, most of whom are starters for their country.

with two months left of the season I am surprised how well we have done and amazed that I actually feel dissapointed by it.

My Glass is almost three quarters full icon_lol.gif

Again, I'm glad you are happy with what we have now. I'm surprised you didn't burst with excitement when we were on course for a quadruple last year well into April. To me, that means we're going backward as we should be challenging for all major trophies well into April every season. And for some strange reason I'm not happy going backward! If we want to go back to being lovable losers who occasionally win a cup here and there that's fine with me. If so, then let's dispense with Roman and his billions, sack the millionaire players and roll back the ticket prices to 1985. Only then will it be acceptable to have someone like Grant in charge.

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Brilliant post PD.

I dont know if you have ever heard the expression of having 'Champagne taste, and beer money'? but at the moment, we are paying paying for a bottle of Bollinger, but actually, getting asda value lager.

If Roman cant be bothered anymore, then i suggest he chucks it in, and hands us some pride back.

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I like your optimism Chippy. It just might be an key element to some success this season. If the chemistry between the players and manager gets better we just might win CL or EPL, who knows. I have accepted that we probably don't have anything to put in the trophy cabinet this season since the two more probable trophy's are behind us now.

Thinking about your optimism brings to mind the fact that we have the most quality side in the league and top 3 in europe. We have at least 2 star players on every spot on the pitch and to underline the quality of our squad we have Shevchenko playing for reserves(coming back from injury but still).

Then again massive squad with full of stars have underachieved in the past. Real Madrid is an good example. Barcelona has a tough task catching RM this year and didn't they just drop our from the spanish cup. ManU was cr*p two seasons ago when they only managed to finish third and lost to us almost 20 points. There are examples...

I can openly say that I don't like Avram Grants face. He looks like he don't have the passion needed to lead the team to championships, he doesn't look sharp. It is all about his exterior. If someone who doesn't look like a toad had Avram's record we would give him the benifit of the doubt. I'm sure Avram is passionate and sharp and a good coach but I just haven't had that expression of him through the TV screen. He surely don't enjoy giving the interviews and the language wall leaves his intellect into question.

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I'm sorry PD but i couldn't resist. Some of your points a quite valid and i happen to agree with but ....

Since when was nicking a draw away to Loserpool with a half fit team a bad result?

Chelsea(4-4-2) Cech; Essien, Ben-Haim, Terry ©, A Cole; Wright-Phillips (J Cole 76), Mikel, Lampard, Malouda (Alex 85); Kalou (Pizarro h-t), Drogba.

That was our lineup. Except for Carvalho who's missing? Jose chose Ben Haim over Alex and used Essien as a RB although i think either Beletti or Paulo or even both were available.

Sorry, but Essien's form was acceptable until Jose was sacked.

He's been poor all season and got even worse since his return from ACN.

Also the injuries we've had this season, although more numerous, have not been as serious as losing Cech for 4 months and Terry for 3 (cumulative). I say that only because last season we had no cover for JT when Kenyon sold Gallas right at the close of the transfer window. (allegedly against a certain manager's wishes)

I disagree. We have lost way more key players this season to long term injuries than last year and we had to deal with ACN, too. Let's not forget to mention that Grant did better with the depleted squad over Christmas period than Jose did a season earlier.

I'm sorry mate, but it can't always be the keeper's fault. Arsenal, Rottenham, Barnsley - if we just had a decent keeper then maybe Avi wouldn't be in the mess he's in now, eh?

It was a mistake by Cech and it did cost us the game. Arsenal created nothing until the last 20 minutes or so when we were forced to chase the game and take risks.

How is that if Avi's doing so well guiding us to unprecendented win streaks that the points gap goes from 2 points when he took over to 9 points just a few days ago?

In case you were wondering, we're eight points behind the leaders with two games in hand.

The players will not play for him and to expect them to play for the love of Chelsea simply because you or I would do it is nonsense.

How about playing for the money they're paid and contract they have signed? How about playing for the fans and your own professional pride? Seems to be working for a lot of players all over the world.

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No worries Abramovich. I would respond to all but I have to nip out for a quick meeting.

The players will not play for him and to expect them to play for the love of Chelsea simply because you or I would do it is nonsense.

How about playing for the money they're paid and contract they have signed? How about playing for the fans and your own professional pride? Seems to be working for a lot of players all over the world.

Q: How many of those player's teams would have Avi as their manager?

Answers on a postcard, please...

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Chippy do you think replacing Mourinho with Grant, I’m not discussing if Mourinho should have been replaced or not, but replacing him with Grant was a step forward?

Do you go into games now with the same confidence you did before Grant or have you turned to religion and a couple of days before a match start praying God we win?

If Grant is replaced at the end of the season will you be sorry to see him go?

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Chippy' date=' please don't take offence - just wanted to address your points one by one...

no offence taken, but this is gonna be some boring long sh*t,

September looked bleak' date=' Chelsea not playing well, over run by Liverpool nicking a draw...[/quote']

Since when was nicking a draw away to Loserpool with a half fit team a bad result?

We had a strong team that day and we were totally over run, the penalty was never that and we were extremely lucky,

losing to Villa' date='[/quote']

Agreed. Terrible result. In hindsight I think no one knew how much Villa would have improved this season, but that's immaterial.

Most Teams in the prem have improved this term, a point you've helped me to make,

Essien not looking half the player he did last year

Sorry' date=' but Essien's form was acceptable until Jose was sacked.

Yeah right, icon_lol.gif

bottom of CL Group

LOL After one game. But of course' date=' it took the genious of Avi to resurrect our CL campaign otherwise Jose would have had us out in the group stage. Possibly by the third match of the groups stage. Yes, I'll agree with that. [img']{SMILIES_PATH}/clap2.gif[/img]

Drawing at home was not a good result, had Grant achieved it he would have been crucified,

Grant takes over and I am amazed that a man with such little credentials has got the job

I believe we have a winner for understatement of the year award.

What award would you be up for though :lol:

Chelsea Blue tints on and I think right Roman must have faith and its his money so get behind the bloke' date='[/quote']

Your choice but fair enough.

How about my Grantista Tatoo though? is that ok by you as well?

We lose at OT and so far Grant has had no training sessions with the team so I just discount it thinking the form we were in we would have lost that anyway' date=' espessially with Mikels sending off and Drogba out.[/quote']

Agreed. And' date=' I'll add, that it appeared during this match, at least while it was still even strength teams, our players were giving it their all.

They did well, true,

Injuries mount and so do my fears unyet we get a good run of results while not looking much different except here and there where the fullbacks get forward more and the team attacks in packs' date=' these games are scattered betwen the usual strangle the life out of teams Jose style games which are keeping results stable even with a weakened squad,[/quote']

Agreed, but the teams Avi beat during his miracle run are shoite. Yes, you still have to beat them, and if anything this weekend has reaffirmed you can't just show up and win. But still, those teams are dross, and if Avi hadn't gone on his miracle run against the dregs of the league, then he'd have been sacked a long time ago.

The top two have tp play against the same "dross" and with the great season both have had it just shows how well we have done to be near them,

Also the injuries we've had this season, although more numerous, have not been as serious as losing Cech for 4 months and Terry for 3 (cumulative). I say that only because last season we had no cover for JT when Kenyon sold Gallas right at the close of the transfer window. (allegedly against a certain manager's wishes)

Our opinions differ again, two key players is not to me the same as losing both the top goalscorers plus the well known suspesions and ACN,

We pull it round in the CL and some good results se us top the group although a loss at the emirates with a rare mistake by Cech

I'm sorry mate' date=' but it can't always be the keeper's fault. Arsenal, Rottenham, Barnsley - if we just had a decent keeper then maybe Avi wouldn't be in the mess he's in now, eh?

It was the keepers fault in the one game I mentioned, Cant always be the managers fault icon_wink.gif

and some dodgy finishing from Sheva and SWP

haha' date=' has there ever been anythign else from Sheva since he's joined us? I mean really, this is the player who is outmuscled by Aaron Lennon and couldn't outrun a snail if his life depended on it. Not Sheva's fault he was placed in a position to fail so thoroughly yet again. That decision lies elswhere. And SWP? The boy who's second touch is always a tackle and who makes Gronks crosses look like laser guided missiles. Ahh yes, if it weren't for those two messing things up we would be right there.

They both missed easy enough chances and we could have easily won or drawn that game, how does slagging the players off prove your point?

sees a player that we should never have let go come back to haunt us' date='[/quote']

Jose's biggest mistake was not knowing how to handle Gallas. I agree with you wholeheartedly that he should have never left us. Remember, when he cleared the ball off the line in the CL Semi vs Liverpool saving a sure goal?

Jose's biggest mistake was not knowing how to handle Roman, but it was some cock up the way he used Gallas and the way he let him go,

Another decent run in the league and the gap at the top starts to look almost sumountable with even the form two finding it tough in a strong premier league' date='[/quote']

I'm sorry Chippy, but Avi's only decent runs have all seem to come against teams we should put 6 past. We did against City which was great and gave me momentary hope that I was wrong about him. And for the points gap, well it actually got wider. How is that if Avi's doing so well guiding us to unprecendented win streaks that the points gap goes from 2 points when he took over to 9 points just a few days ago?

If the 6-0 thrashing of Man City gave you momentary hope I would advise you not to make knee jerk reactions, I have hardly mentioned that result as its part of a transition when things click into place and out of place equally as quick, I would say Man City though have improved along the same lines as Villa though,

Look again at the gap now and the two games in hand,

we lose in the CC Final and it hurts' date=' more so because of the opponents and the way the team played, I have my first big doubts about the new manager as he plays Anelka wide and he plays like Sheva under Jose,[/quote']

Not only that, but the manner in which we simply rolled over and allowed them boss our midfield was particularly disappointing (for me at least).

Exactly,

The team looks like they lack motivation' date=' this is a cup final ffs, whats happening? is it downt to Avi or Cate? JT has a go in HT ET but its too little too late and although Drogs had layed down more thn stood up he still manages to score our only goal as we go down, Gutted,

Oh well we are still in three competitions right, Wrong after playing eleven internationals against Barnsley we lose 1-0 on a pitch Wenger would have loved, Avi's team selection is picked at and his motivation again in doubt (even for me),[/quote']

Hear, hear! Glad to see you're coming to see things as they truly are. To call Avi inept would be an insult to ineptitude across the planet.

I would'nt call him anything of the sort, I would say in important games like these the players should motivate themselves,

Arsenal struggle with Wigan and a result that would hasve had Grant slated go's under Arsenes belt while UTD look at a 2 point gap with a game in hand' date='[/quote']

Oh but that are slating him and rightly so. Wenger has bottled it (again) and it appears his "young" team are still suffering from the thrashing received at OT. Have a look over at the game thread on AWIMB. They are calling for Wenger's head if he loses the Prem they had "wrapped up" this season. Which would be just as big a mistake as sacking Jose has been for us.

I have got a lot of mates that are Gooners and I frequent a Gooner site and can honestly say I have not heard anyone slating their manager,

I try my best to give the manager the benefit of the doubt as I feel the players have let him down' date='[/quote']

I feel just the opposite. I feel he has let the players (and supporters) down by conning his way into a position for which he does not have the requisite skill. Worse than that, he can't even hire a staff to properly do his work for him when he says he uses a delegation style of management. The players will not play for him and to expect them to play for the love of Chelsea simply because you or I would do it is nonsense.

I Know how you feel and that's your perogative but as I have said I will look for the positives and I feel I have highlighted some on this thread,

I dont say anything about the players wanting to play for the love of Chelsea, but I would imagine a cup winners medal would be worth breaking sweat for,

The whole thing is not just a farce, it's the worst kind of farce - a totally unnecessary one.

you think so? I dont,

I look at whats left...

The league table amazes me' date=' in September I feared we would struggle for a CL place unyet we are concievably in with a shout,[/quote']

Chippy, I know its just opinion and you're obviously entitled to yours. But if, on the basis of current results you see us winning out from here, against Man U and Arsenal, then please pass whatever you're having to me. That doesn't take into account possible dropped points at Rottenham and Everton, too.

I said we are in a position I did'nt expect us to be in, that means we have already exceeded my expectations, who am I to guess if we could exceed them even more?

Thats a funny one that "pass whatever your having to me" I must remember that icon_rolleyes.gif

The CL standings show we are in the last eight' date='[/quote']

Which is still not close to where we should be given the expenditure of nearly £500m on players. Jose got us to the Semi Final in his first year, Grant should do at least the same.

Not close? where should we be then, perhaps they should have given us a by to the final, smack_head.gif

None of the top four stayed in the CC longer than us' date=' none of the top four stayed in the FA Cup longer than us,[/quote']

Actually Chippy, that makes it worse for me. You see, I think there's no excuse for us not winning that CC, especially as it was the one Grant needed the most to deny his detractors more ammunition. So, in the biggest game of Grant's 30 years of managerial experience, he bottles it. Not just bottles it, but completely loses the plot and is shown to be incapable of "managing" his team due to his delegation theory of management. He follows that up by bottling a golden chance to win the FA Cup and silence his detractors once again. The man is a born loser and it's not funny anymore.

Again we disagree, you go on though with your style of support and I'll stick with mine,

Also, the comparisons you make above only work if based against teams which have similar resources and investment as we have - that means Man U and no one else. If we were still clipping along under Bates and managing what you described, then fine, that would be performing above what's expected. Fact is, we have two full teams of Internationals, most of whom are starters for their country.

Money does'nt always buy success, Chelsea fans have been using this answer since Roman arrived and we were accused of buying the title,

with two months left of the season I am surprised how well we have done and amazed that I actually feel dissapointed by it.

My Glass is almost three quarters full icon_lol.gif

Again' date=' I'm glad you are happy with what we have now. I'm surprised you didn't burst with excitement when we were on course for a quadruple last year well into April. To me, that means we're going backward as we should be challenging for all major trophies well into April every season. And for some strange reason I'm not happy going backward! If we want to go back to being lovable losers who occasionally win a cup here and there that's fine with me. If so, then let's dispense with Roman and his billions, sack the millionaire players and roll back the ticket prices to 1985. Only then will it be acceptable to have someone like Grant in charge.[/quote']

Sometimes you have to take a few steps back before you can move forward, with a change in manager more often than not,

I dont expect to win, Football throws up all sorts of surprises and thats partly what makes it the best game in the world,

As I've said, I think Grant has done ok under some tough circumstances and although we might know more by the end of the season, at this time he certainly does'nt deserve sacking.

my opinions and obviously not stated as fact icon_wink.gif

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Chippy do you think replacing Mourinho with Grant, I’m not discussing if Mourinho should have been replaced or not, but replacing him with Grant was a step forward?

At the time I thought it was an odd decision and expected it to be as caretaker until Hiddink arrived, that said as soon as he got the Job after the oh sh*t were in trouble I got behind him fully as I have with every manager we've had in fourty years,

Do you go into games now with the same confidence you did before Grant or have you turned to religion and a couple of days before a match start praying God we win?

I had lost a bit of confidence and was not enjoying a lot of the football last season, I know it has'nt changed much but as I've said, a new manager needs new players,

As for the found Religion, I am a Fully ordained minister with the Universal Life Church so I had already turned to it really,

If Grant is replaced at the end of the season will you be sorry to see him go?

I would rather answer that at the end of the season as the longer he is here the more I will feel able to Judge him, I do feel a manager needs to bring in players and be given time with his new team to actually get them playing to his style, however if I feel he has really let us down by the end of this season I may decide he has had time enough without the Summer to mould his team,

At this moment I would say I still think he deserves the Summer window and three or four months of next season before I could make a proper Judgement.

God bless you happy0034.gif

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Folks, I must say that I think quite a lot of people have become too obsessed with this Grant Out campaign.

I share in what you are feeling through our passion for this club but under the circumstances Chippy's comment is not far off the mark.

To put it in to context we all have our opinions of the current situation & manager but compared to that underachieving inconsistant team of scouse twats who have threatened to win the premiership since Rafa was appointed 4 years ago coupled with our early events of the season I dont think we have done that bad.

What baffles me is Rafa has spent plenty, the hub cap thievers have not improved at all and yet their numbnut fans want rid of the owners (who have done nothing more than invest) and want to keep a manager who has as much chance of taking them to league glory as we seem to think Avram has?.

The question is would we all have been as loyal to Jose as the scouse twats are to Rafa had we been as inconsistant as they have been? After all Avrams record this season is better than Rafa's, that is not to say that I think he is the man to take us forward as that remains to be seen.

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After all Avrams record this season is better than Rafa's, that is not to say that I think he is the man to take us forward as that remains to be seen.

I agree with you on this and feel as Chelsea fans we have been spoiled by success and therefore not many have the patience to give a new manager time, Roman has asked for more stylish football and Grant or whoever was in charge would need time to bring new players in to change the style and get it working,

Liverpool no longer have expectation of winning everything although their "istory" would have us believe they still do,

As you say if Grant is or is'nt the man to take us forward remains to be seen.

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compared to that underachieving inconsistant team of scouse twats who have threatened to win the premiership since Rafa was appointed 4 years ago coupled with our early events of the season I dont think we have done that bad.

Why on earth would we want to be benchmarking ourselves against Liverpool? For the last three seasons we have finished way ahead of them. This year they are struggling to even finish fourth. Saying that we have done alright because we have done better than them is hardly a compelling arguement.

The question is would we all have been as loyal to Jose as the scouse twats are to Rafa had we been as inconsistant as they have been?

I don't suppose so for a minute. But then again isn't that rather the point? He wasn't inconsistent like Benitez. He was consistent. First year - won the league. Second year - won the league. Third Year - runner's up to Man U. 3 domestic trophies. 2 Champions League Semi - Finals.

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compared to that underachieving inconsistant team of scouse twats who have threatened to win the premiership since Rafa was appointed 4 years ago coupled with our early events of the season I dont think we have done that bad.

Why on earth would we want to be benchmarking ourselves against Liverpool?

Forget Liverpool, most of them are bench marking against Hollins record. You couldn't make it up.

PS - Those underachieving inconsistent scouse twats (both sets) are only 2 points behind us now.

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compared to that underachieving inconsistant team of scouse twats who have threatened to win the premiership since Rafa was appointed 4 years ago coupled with our early events of the season I dont think we have done that bad.

Why on earth would we want to be benchmarking ourselves against Liverpool? For the last three seasons we have finished way ahead of them. This year they are struggling to even finish fourth. Saying that we have done alright because we have done better than them is hardly a compelling arguement.

I think you may have inadvertantly icon_wink.gif missed the drift of what sparky was trying to say there ES, I think he was compring the patience the Scouse fans have in their manager to the patience Chelsea fans are showing as the new man try's to do his Job,

The question is would we all have been as loyal to Jose as the scouse twats are to Rafa had we been as inconsistant as they have been?

I don't suppose so for a minute. But then again isn't that rather the point? He wasn't inconsistent like Benitez. He was consistent. First year - won the league. Second year - won the league. Third Year - runner's up to Man U. 3 domestic trophies. 2 Champions League Semi - Finals.

I would imagine Sparky knows exactly what was won under Jose but can see like some other people even on this Forum that what happened then may not have carried on and regardless is yesterday,

A new Chelsea manager is here and maybe he thinks he deserves a chance,

Apologies to Sparky if I have read your post wrong and the same to Ethical but thats the way it looked to me.

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After all Avrams record this season is better than Rafa's, that is not to say that I think he is the man to take us forward as that remains to be seen.

I agree with you on this and feel as Chelsea fans we have been spoiled by success and therefore not many have the patience to give a new manager time, Roman has asked for more stylish football and Grant or whoever was in charge would need time to bring new players in to change the style and get it working,

Liverpool no longer have expectation of winning everything although their "istory" would have us believe they still do,

As you say if Grant is or is'nt the man to take us forward remains to be seen.

That was my point exactly Chippy, Why would I be comparing us to the scouse twats, I was merely comparing their consistantly poor league form with their PATIENCE and admiration they have for their manager. I am not for one minute suggesting that Avram has mine or anyone else's admiration as that has to be earn't!.

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