Another Grant thread, but trying to understand.

[Barn]

I keep thinking about Grant and how he came to be our manager. I think we all agree he's not the man we want, I don't think many people could have followed Jose and got the full support of the fans though. But why was he given the job?

I keep thinking about where Wenger came from when he got the arse job, his pedigree and experience was better and more proven than Grant, but most people raised their eyebrows at his appointment. It was proved to be a masterstroke (all bias aside he's done a terrific job without spending too much money). The similarities between the two are that they are both students of the game, they have both studied the game for a long time and in just about every area of the world you could dream of. They both think about the game and are very highly regarded by a number of top coaches around the world, including in Europe. For me though, Wenger done a number of coaching jobs, good jobs before he went to manage in Japan, where the arse got him from. Good European jobs is something Grant has never done, and while he's clearly spent a lot of time building a good reputation as a knowledgeable football man, he's never gained the experience that his current role demands. That sort of leads me to believe that he could be very good for us as a director of football, but that the cut and thrust and pressure of the big game situations is something that he's no-where near ready for. I wouldn't be suprised if he wants to carry on in management as opposed to being a director of football, if in a few years he becomes quite successful, but at the moment he doesn't know how to use his wealth of knowledge in a game situation.

Not a bad bloke, but not the man to take us forward - or keep us at the level we expect!

[Mr Chelsea]

grant is not even qualified as a manager

that might be the problem, from what i have read he doesnt seem to be even bothering to go and get it

i think after jose's departure grant was there and romans ideal choice, as all the so called big name managers were with clubs and grant was only installed to see out the season, if he succeeded then he would get longer

we are a big club with big names and were spoilt under jose

grant doesnt seem to command the same respect from players that jose did, i dont think he's strong enough

thats why under jose players never spoke out of turn and the rumours of player unrest were very rare

under grant all the players seem to have an opinion and there been a lot of talk about player un-rest

[Chippy]

Good post Barn and a bit more respectful to a man that has come to us at a very dificult time (after Mourinho) and kept us challenging with a lot of injuries and suspensions where we could have embarresed ourselves and dropped down the leaue,

My main concerns with Grant are his late substitutions (which I am sure he will learn by) and more so the motivation of the players,

My take on it for what it's worth is the players know everyone thinks all our bad games are down to the manager and all our good games are down to the players taking matters into their own hands which gives them a comfortable cushion of when the going gets tough and they are not in the mood they just dont go all out and let him take the stick for the result,

That's why if he does go (and I still would not decide until the season ends) a top manager has to come in and I find it sad that I believe this has less to do with the new mans ability than his reputation.

I am still not sure and do believe if Grant gets the time and brings in his own players he could make it work as he would likely get more respect from players he has brought in.

I can't excuse his late Substitutions in any way but I believe he must have tried Anelka wide in training and it must have looked good,

If you read Van Hoods posts on the CL thread he says Anelka had his best games for Fenerahce out wide and perhaps Grant has seen these..(GAMES NOT POSTS )

I was screaming for him to change it last night and as upset as anyone but I could'nt change my opinion in the three or four games where I think he has badly made mistakes as he has done some good as well.

Cheers

[Blue Sun Tzu]

We all can discuss AV's tactical acumen, debate whether he has the necessary qualifications and experience, and argue whether or not he will get it right or not given enough time and his own players; and indeed we have done so almost exhaustively on numerous threads. However this all so much conjecture which in the end is superfluous because of one simple fact: Grant is unable to motivate our players.

This was never more evident than on Wednesday night. Having grown used to a Chelsea team that - under Jose's management off the pitch and JT's on it - would fight for everything from the first kick to the last, it was shocking to see this shadow of a team; it's spirit finally exhausted. If Roman's plan was to purge any vestiges of the Mourinho era he has well and truly succeeded.

Our only way forward now is to rebuild the entire side in much the same way Ferguson has done at United time after time (this will probably see the departure of pretty much everyone bar JT, Cech and Joe Cole). However, no player of the calibre required to win the Premiership and The Champions League will respect a man who was turned down for the QPR job and is seen only a lackey of his chairman; it is for this reason that Grant simply has to go at the end of the season and replaced by someone with sufficient quality to instantly gain the respect of his players and forge a team in his own image. Note to Roman: that's a team forged in the manager's image not the chairman's. The other way round can only lead to disaster (for reference see Real Madrid's sudden demise a few years ago).

[mez]

The really worrying thing for me, which the Grant situation typifies, is that RA has shown a lack of

good judgement, with the sacking of TSO, the appointment of AG and the continued insistence on

Shevchenko.

How many bad decisions will he have to make before he realises that he hasn't the

savvy needed to make decisions at this level. He can put his dummy (AG) upstairs, but how on earth

can someone who has failed like AG be expected to influence a new and more successful manager?

It's time for RA to just accept he owns a fabulous club but he has to let people with more

expertise make the big decisions.

As long as RA goes on in this way (and I can understand that someone who invests millions wants

some kind of practical input) this Board will go on discussing the madness of appointing nobodies

like AG as manager and other daft things.

Basically, RA has to love CFC enough not to make the decisions that matter.

Mez

[Valerie]

I keep thinking about where Wenger came from when he got the arse job, his pedigree and experience was better and more proven than Grant.

...The similarities between the two are that they are both students of the game, they have both studied the game for a long time and in just about every area of the world you could dream of. They both think about the game and are very highly regarded by a number of top coaches around the world, including in Europe.

Good post Barn, but the thing about Grant being highly regarded is news to me!

[Blue Sun Tzu]

...How many bad decisions will he [Roman] have to make before he realises that he hasn't the

savvy needed to make decisions at this level.

Remember RA is a guy who has amassed a fortune of some several billion which I think at the very least demonstrates a certain savvy! However, here it not a question of savvy but one of ego. There's only room for one and that seems to be Roman's.

Incidentally, for the record, Mez posted whilst I was editing my initial post.

[Tim W]

...How many bad decisions will he [Roman] have to make before he realises that he hasn't the

savvy needed to make decisions at this level.

Remember RA is a guy who has amassed a fortune of some several billion which I think at the very least demonstrates a certain savvy! However, here it not a question of savvy but one of ego. There's only room for one and that seems to be Roman's.

Incidentally, for the record, Mez posted whilst I was editing my initial post.

To be fair, as far as we know, RA hasn't made a penny from football only a 500 million pound loss

[mez]

it not a question of savvy but one of ego

If RA wants a manager without an ego, he'll get a doormat .... .... the players won't respect

(I wonder who that reminds me of???)

Mez

[Blue Sun Tzu]

it not a question of savvy but one of ego

If RA wants a manager without an ego, he'll get a doormat .... .... the players won't respect

(I wonder who that reminds me of???)

Mez

Indeed. My fear as well mate!

[Pauly]

i don't like what he does under pressure... just as you thought ferreira was back we have the essien RB scenario returned...

[callista]

Respectful, thoughtful post Barn but I have to admit that it's news to me too that Grant was highly respected by many within football prior to his appointment as Chelsea manager.

Seems to me that he's simply someone who is very good at greasing the wheels and aquiring helpful "friends" along the way.

We can argue the merits and demerits of Grant until the cows come home (and I think we have elsewhere) but I agree with Jose (that's Melons not Mourinho!) that the main issue is that Grant seems to show a worrying lack of being unable to motivate the players anything like to the same degree was Mourinho did. The players are more eager to blame themselves now, you hear stories of arguments during training between the coaching staff and players, general player unrest, players coming off the field having a strop at being replaced (did anyone ever do that when Jose was standing there?). Too many stories come out for them all to be dismissed as misinformation or lies. Jose left a strong team behind him but I think it needs a very strong personality to lead it and Grant does not strike me as being that.

I'm sure he very much wanted this job and has always apparently craved recognition and managerial power running a big club and he acquired Roman's friendship I'm certain with an aim that one day he might just might get the call.

Well he got it alright and he's made his bed and he will now have to lie in it.

Trouble is so will we if it doesn't pan out and Roman stubbornly refuses to correct his (possible) misjudgement.

Regarding Jose's departure, well I think it takes two to tango and obviously something had been building to a head since the Villa game and I think that Jose as much wanted to leave as Roman wanted him to go and it just needs a push from both sides to end it all.

The fact there were no top managers on the market made it a given that Grant would get his chance.

However, I don't feel that sorry for Grant and I don't compare him to Wenger and his arrival at all. Wenger had achieved in the French league and won trophies prior to his appointment at Arsenal and he came with a clear idea about the football he wanted and had proved that's how he played the game with his previous teams. Grant was utterly unknown until he arrived on these shores to all but Israeli journos and players and his many "friends". Plus he in no way has a rep for attacking football in Israel - another irony obviously lost on Roman and some fans it appears.

So yes he's had a tough time in the media, suffered some abuse which is utterly contemptable in the form of threats and has managed to do a good job overall in trying circumstances considering his lack of experience.

Replacing Jose was always going to be a difficult thing to do, made even worse by the fact most did not want Jose to leave and he was still winning things for us. As someone said in a paper a few weeks back if you were a manager wanting this job you would want to be the man that followed the man that followed Jose.

Only then could you start with a clean slate with the players, media and fans.

[c3blu]

The best thing AG has done for us is make it easier for the next man. As somebody else wrote replacing JM was going to be tough and nobody was readily available at the time( with the exception of Cappelo, but then you cant get rid of JM stating style of football as one of the reasons and replace him with the Italian version).

Whoever comes in in the summer wont have a very hard act to follow, will have the fans onside and the players respect(as long as he's a desent manager that is and not some bloke the owner likes a bit).

I dont think whosale changes to the squad is needed, some players need to be moved on and some may want to go but if the new man is given some money to wheel and deal with and players are only leaving on the clubs terms( i.e, the players we want for the money we want when replacements are sorted) then we will be alright.

These players hav'nt become bad overnight, they just need some leadership, organisation and motivation. Somebody experienced at the highest level of the game.

To AG i say thanks but no thanks, and i'd only keep him at the club in whatever capacity(directer of football,bib hander outer, new Stamford the lion etc) if whoever came in was happy about it.

[Peeking Duck?]

The best thing AG has done for us is make it easier for the next man. As somebody else wrote replacing JM was going to be tough and nobody was readily available at the time( with the exception of Cappelo, but then you cant get rid of JM stating style of football as one of the reasons and replace him with the Italian version).

Whoever comes in in the summer wont have a very hard act to follow, will have the fans onside and the players respect(as long as he's a desent manager that is and not some bloke the owner likes a bit).

I dont think whosale changes to the squad is needed, some players need to be moved on and some may want to go but if the new man is given some money to wheel and deal with and players are only leaving on the clubs terms( i.e, the players we want for the money we want when replacements are sorted) then we will be alright.

These players hav'nt become bad overnight, they just need some leadership, organisation and motivation. Somebody experienced at the highest level of the game.

To AG i say thanks but no thanks, and i'd only keep him at the club in whatever capacity(directer of football,bib hander outer, new Stamford the lion etc) if whoever came in was happy about it.

Excellent post.

[bonetti]

I cannot understand why Grant was not appointed as caretaker - if he had we'ed probably all be saying that he hasnt done bad - instead hes foisted on us for 4 years (supposedly) and its the worst nightmare.

Once again - its about expectations

[Guest]

I cannot understand why Grant was not appointed as caretaker - if he had we'ed probably all be saying that he hasnt done bad - instead hes foisted on us for 4 years (supposedly) and its the worst nightmare.

Once again - its about expectations

Good point. If the club had said publicly "Avram Grant is caretaker manager till the end of the season" and the club went on to win the Premiership or Champions League, fans might actually want him to stay. But because he is being viewed as a permanent replacement, expectations are much higher.

[Arcaeon]

...How many bad decisions will he [Roman] have to make before he realises that he hasn't the

savvy needed to make decisions at this level.

Remember RA is a guy who has amassed a fortune of some several billion which I think at the very least demonstrates a certain savvy! However, here it not a question of savvy but one of ego. There's only room for one and that seems to be Roman's.

Incidentally, for the record, Mez posted whilst I was editing my initial post.

To be honest I wouldn't be attributing too much of RA's wealth to his intelligence or savviness so to speak, not trying to start a flame war but the guy is a bit of a snake in the grass, a bit underhanded, do some research on how he collected all his wealth, he basically traded oil products using his insider knowledge from his relationships with the Kremlin and bought vastly underpriced shares, I don't know all the details but something about it sounds dodgy. To be perfectly honest I would rather it if both RA and Grant had nothing to do with Chelsea FC.

[Enrico]

To be honest I wouldn't be attributing too much of RA's wealth to his intelligence or savviness so to speak, not trying to start a flame war but the guy is a bit of a snake in the grass, a bit underhanded, do some research on how he collected all his wealth, he basically traded oil products using his insider knowledge from his relationships with the Kremlin and bought vastly underpriced shares, I don't know all the details but something about it sounds dodgy.

If he were less intelligent you think he would still be able to achieve that, AND stay out of trouble thus far? Remember you're dealing with the Russians here, say or do anything stupid and you find a red light on your forehead within 3 hours. Dammit who is that at the door...

[Guest]

To be honest I wouldn't be attributing too much of RA's wealth to his intelligence or savviness so to speak, not trying to start a flame war but the guy is a bit of a snake in the grass, a bit underhanded, do some research on how he collected all his wealth, he basically traded oil products using his insider knowledge from his relationships with the Kremlin and bought vastly underpriced shares, I don't know all the details but something about it sounds dodgy.

If he were less intelligent you think he would still be able to achieve that, AND stay out of trouble thus far? Remember you're dealing with the Russians here, say or do anything stupid and you find a red light on your forehead within 3 hours. Dammit who is that at the door...

Or your baloney sandwich get swapped with one containing polonium-210 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_ ... _poisoning)

[BLUENUT]

perhaps that's one of the reasons he bought a premier league football team, to make himself more 'hign' profile.