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My personal favorite was Gary Neville complaining why Tuchel didn’t have anyone man marking Messi. As if no manager in the last 20 years hasn’t tried that. Messi also scored a hattrick against Neville’s Valencia. Why did he have anyone man marking him?

It's interesting how every World Cup winning manager is a home grown. A foreign manager has never won a World Cup before. There's something in that I suspect.

That was my take but the fashionable stance seems to be that it was 100% Tuchel's fault LOL Up to the Gordon goal we had only one attempt on goal in 55 minutes (the Stones header wide) - we were ineffective in attack all game basically. Our 5 "chances" were in minute 33, 55, 66, 66 and 79. Having watched the game again this morning, they were clearly better than us and we were probably lucky that they opted to kick us in the first half rather than play football as I think the margin would have been a lot wider otherwise. They are FIFA's #1 ranked international team for a reason ...

I am surprised to see so many ex players and ex managers blaming Tuchel for this result. They of all people should know it's not easy to change players mentality once they have already decided to sit back and defend for whatever reason. Players were all gassed, clear as day to see, so after we scored the players retreated and sat back. This wasn't an instruction from Tuchel evident by the fact that he kept the same system. If he wanted us to defend straight after he would have changed it straight away. I blame him for keeping Kane on even when he was clearly gone which resulted in us having no out ball but everything else was in response to what the players had already been doing.

And last night just reminded me why I feel it is totally wrong for a foreigner to manage an international side. Any internatoinal side should only be managed by a coach of that nationality - it's just wrong otherwise. At least when Southgate f**ked up, we had to take it on the chin and accept it. But last night just doesn't sit right and any conspiracy theorists will be having a field day. TT takes his £8m a year or whatever it is and then when the FA question him on why he did what he did last night with subs and tactic etc, he can just shrug and say "yeah, my bad, I got it wrong". Just imagine if that had happened last night but instead of Argentina the opponents had been Germany and the same outcome. I for one would be thinking Hmmm, hang on a minute......!!"

Maybe that’s why we went all in on Palestra.

Neither do actual Argentines.

Well, you know what you are getting with Stones[32]. I mean he has tonnes of experience and our team/squad needs that. He is nowhere near a Thiago Silva type of player - but who is? But he could step into our squad for a couple of years and help our CBs lurn the game. We have a whole bunch of amazing young Cbs - adding another 50 million quid French bloke who might be a little mediocre after all (we are not sure about him are we?). Feeling 'risk' adverse and Lacroix? meh, not certain about him.

Watching Argentina's come back last night a thought struck me. All the Argie players wanted it big time. Never gave an inch. Mentally tough. Worked their socks off. Got stuck in. Put it about a bit. sh*t housed at every opportunity. Garnacho is the total opposite of all that. On the pitch he plays a like a cross between Alan Carr without his glasses and a bored school girl. I don't believe he is Argentinian at all.

I did wonder about that yesterday when they mentioned he was out of contract. But he's not someone you'd want to stick into the starting 11 going forward to be a permanent partner for Colwill. He's more of an experienced head who would come in here and there. Still, I'd sign him if the wages were ok.

Not sure I agree re Anselmino . From what is being rumoured, yes I know, Badiashille is very likely to go and a deal has been agreed with Disasi to go to WHU but at this time his agents are trying to get him a deal with a PL club. Tosin I agree is 50% . Add to the mix Sarr who did ok when he played & of course Fofana who I personally would be happy to see gone. Let’s assume that we do go with 3CB we have I guess on Colwill, Josh, Hato & maybe Reece but I think we need two a Edit. Forgot Challobah who I think is almost certainly off

So there is no thoughts that actually the players just weren't very good, possibly through fatigue and they basically got outplayed and overrun and therefore couldn't get out. I agree with the timings that you have identified. As an example they brought on Nico Gonzalez on 64 minutes and i don't think we could really cope with him along with everything else that was coming at the team. Personally, i think key to the result was the fact the Rice clearly was still not fully up to speed and we had no back up to pack that defensive midfield area, thus making us go deeper and deeper. I do agree that TT tried to rely on a ploy that worked against the Mexicans and would never work here, but i just wonder whether his hand was being forced by the direction of play and the bluntness of our midfield and attack.

Dont know how anyone can claim he made the right decisions with the squad, thats partially the reason weve struggled in the last 2 games. Quansah instead of TAA, Hall or Shaw Madueke instead of Foden Henderson instead of Gibbs White or Wharton (the worst one of all) Toney instead of anyone else Last night as we were losing control he had nothing to do to change it, he sat and watched it all happen with zero input into stopping it other than to get our team to drop deeper and deeper, and become more compact. Having someone like Gibbs White to run with the ball, Foden to take control and either make space or draw a foul, Hall on for an exhausted Spence, someone other than Toney to give us a target. He f**ked the squad up massively, highlighted perfectly by the balls up at right back, took 2 injury prone ones who then got injured (surprisingly to him), then replaced them with a CB who never got a single minute of game time.

Or Nobby Stiles.

Maybe we should take a pass on spending a fortune on this bloke and sign John Stones on a FREE?

Did you watch that second half? Not a single one of those left our half. From minute 66:05 - 84:42 we made 2 passes as a team. In 18 minutes and 37 seconds, 2 passes. Those 2 passes were from Pickford to Stones and from Stones to Pickford. Sit deep and hoof it up. Pathetic, never seen anything like it before.

Tuchel either bottled it or too many of the English players were heavily fatigued which guided his decisions on subs. As soon as the equaliser went in England were f**ked.

John Stones on a FREE from Citeh. Maybe he is the experienced Centre back that we need?

He wasn't though was he. He had Rogers, Bellingham and Rice around him but none of them were effective enough.

Yep. Or looking at it another way, as announced to us all by the Captain, the plan having scored the first was to go after the second and push for the win. Ally that comment to the point highlighted by @GarnachoCheese above that the Captain himself had one shot, which i suspect is still more, or comparable to that of Rogers and Bellingham and the question i suppose then is whether to support the defence who were being overrun due to our misfiring attack or replace the attackers with Rashford (himself in and out of form) or Toney who hadn't kicked a ball yet. I don't think any of it is ideal, personally i think it was inevitable because only Anderson, Gordon and to a certain extent Spence had effective games. There were just not enough players affecting the performance unfortunately.

Could have been worse. We should be thankful he didn't bring Raheem Sterling and Eric Dier.

We will sign him for twice the price in 3 years. Why we didnt even go for Sensei on a free baffles me.

He'd rather have all our players camped in the box giving the opposition time to take pop shots, Kane was on his own against Romero and Li5'4ndro 80 yards from goal. Pathetic coward tactics.

The tactics in the final quarter were flawed, inviting the disaster which inevitably followed, we needed to be braver...