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Posted

You will have noticed a new member called Nani who has been posting today. Nani (obviously a United fan!) contacted me via PM with a request/idea for the big game on Sunday.

Basically he is a regular member of Utd forum Red Cafe and they are implementing a new feature whereby they contact fans of opposition teams to get ratings on their players after games (win, lose or draw). They tend to publish the results within a few hours of the final whistle.

Nani said that should we be interested in contributing they would do likewise for us and produce ratings and comments for our players. I don't mean a massive poll - just people can post what they think about individual player performance and any overall comments and Nani can use what we post in a post on their site (and I can do likewise)

May or may not come to any good but it might be interesting to get their perspective of how we play and compare it to what we feel.

Anyway as it is such a massive fixture I thought they may be some benefit in kicking it off now and seeing if people want to use this thread just now to say what they think about Utd's performances so far this season and maybe who we need to be most aware of come Sunday. Then after the game use this thread to do what I posted above.



Posted (edited)

Cheers loz,

indeed the gist is that posters who feel up for it provide their ratings of the United players and their performance straight after the Chelsea game on Sunday. I'll ask some of our own posters to judge your players too.

Also, as you have quite a few insightful posters, if any of you feel like writing something on our team that is biased without being insulting, feel free to write it here, and we can publish your thoughts on our blog.. Diversity is the key.

good luck for sunday!

Edited by nani
Posted

Personally I don't think Chelsea or Utd fans should be looking ahead to Sunday yet - we should be saving all our good luck wishes for Lyon tonight!

Posted

I live in France and seldom observed so much self-insurance among Lyon fans. They haven't beaten an English team at home for over 40 years, tonight is a conducive windfall. However one shouldn't under-estimate Benitez's class in the CL.



Posted

I can think of quite a few comments I could make about certain United players already :D

I've got to admit, I find it difficult to notice or care what the opposition are doing at the best of times, but I'll give it a go.

Note to self...stay sober on Sunday, at least till the game's finished :rolleyes:

p.s. - COME ON LYON!!!!!

Posted

Cheers Bluebeard. We'll release loz's ratings and the least drunken analysis of the game in our blog.

For the record, this thing stretches to any time of the season beyond sunday's game, if you happen to watch a United game and want to write something about it, feel free to do so. The Shed end harbours quite a few insightful posters really.

If any of you feel like subscribing to the Caf too, feel free to do so, and PM me so we can get you in the main forums quickly

that's about it for me, see you on sunday lads!

Posted
I can think of quite a few comments I could make about certain United players already :D

I've got to admit, I find it difficult to notice or care what the opposition are doing at the best of times, but I'll give it a go.

Note to self...stay sober on Sunday, at least till the game's finished :rolleyes:

I have a meeting booked at 12.30 in Parsons Green pub - that should do it - luckily seat is at the end of the row!



Posted (edited)
The Shed end harbours quite a few insightful posters really.

so you've taken the time to read some of my posts then? thanks!!

For me Utd have been very ordinary this season and it's no suprise because their team is very ordinary compared to the standards set over the years

If you look at their squad now there is probably only one player I'd take from their best 11 - Rooney and when he is in form he is undoubtably one of the best but at times he can be poor especially when there isn't the same quality around him as there was

Van Der Sar - isn't a good keeper and hasn't been for a good while

The Brazilian full backs - aren't up to scratch yet

Evra - probably the 2nd best LB in the world but bar pace he doesn't provide much going forward

Ferdinand - has come in for a lot of stick recently and to be honest I think it's harsh but it seems to be affecting him

Vidic - has lost the plot

Brown and Evans - short of match sharpness so vulnerable

Nani - can be a great player but for some reason doesn't get a prolonged run in the team

Valencia - can run quickly and has a decent cross at times. That's about it

Carrick - is a steady player

Anderson is quality - A bit erratic at times but should definitely be started beside Carrick but too much chopping and changing in CM atm

Scholes is useless - So far past it and finds the simplest of passes beyond him. Dirty b*stard into the bargain. Retire please

Giggs - has been playing better than he has for years but no legs anymore. Retire

Rooney - see above

Berbatov - fantastic when he wants to be

Owen - I've never seen anyone miss as many chances as this guy. Intelligent footballer because he gets himself into the positions but a truely woeful conversion rate

Macheda and the other young players don't really impress me at all

I think defensively Utd are vulnerable and on many occasions their players aren't up to scratch going forward but in saying that they always seem to get the result. Maybe because of the reputation they have, teams sit off but if you can get at them then I reckon cracks would start to show

If we were going on form so far this season, we would thrash them but they always have big performances against us. That being said I still think we'll win

Edited by sexelk
Posted

Rooney should retire ? :rolleyes:

You're too harsh on Vidic, who had a decent game against Liverpool and who will probably score a header on Sunday given your terrible weaknesses on set-pieces. Also, Giggs has never been as good, first time he's nominated in the Ballon d'or list as well.

I kind of see where you're getting at otherwise. And I can only agree with you that we need a few more quality attacking players.

For the record, this is exactly the sort of stuff I was seeking, although perhaps a tad more diplomatic so to say, if I published something saying scholes is useless people would probably find my house and burn it.



Posted

I'd like to add that I think Darren Fletcher has developed into a great footballer under the guidance of Ferguson. I'm glad to see that he's been slowly weened into the team, and has performed better each season to the point that he's there or there abouts as far as first team football is concerned.

As a Scotsman myself, it's great to see him develop, just a shame he's playing for Scotland right now as we are terrible

Posted

I will have a go at analysing the United team. .

Clearly the big threat comes from the Rooney/Berbatov combination up front. Rooney is thriving on being played right through the centre and from no longer having to adapt his game to accommodate Ronaldo. Berbatov is finally beginning to realise that strolling around the park whistling until the ball comes within two yards of him is not good enough for United – he got away with it at Spurs because whilst he was there you only needed to have a half decent first touch for the fans to get excited about you.

Valencia is settling in a bit now after struggling to deal with the early pressure of replacing Ronaldo in the side however (and I run the risk of tempting fate) I don’t see him as a player to be massively concerned about. Ashley Cole is back and has more than enough in his locker to deal with Valencia.

At the back they are half way to being a shambles at the moment. The continued lapses in form of Rio and Van der Saar have resulted in Evans losing his confidence however I still rate Vidic and Evra highly and there is no way that whoever ends up playing at right back for us will not enjoy the space they did against Bolton and Blackburn. Meanwhile O’Shea will carry on being the jack of all defensive trades but the master of none and Brown watches on whilst his career slips along uneventfully.

On paper (yes I know football isn’t played on paper blah blah blah) they are also struggling in midfield. Scholes and Giggs are well past their best and Carrick isn’t a patch on Essien. Meanwhile Fletcher has established himself as the most important player in the centre of the park for them. That, in itself, tells a big story. Fletcher is a solid performer, one of those ‘I always get 7 out of 10 players’ and I have a lot of time for him as a player however for the Utd midfield to have deteriorated to the point where Fletcher is key means that what Ferguson has done is beginning to mirror what happened at Milan under Ancelotti. You have to wonder how much of the Ronaldo fee the American’s have given to Fergie to spend because I find it baffling that he didn’t strengthen the squad more in the summer. Nani and Anderson have both had very average seasons so far and are failing, so far, to take a very good opportunity to establish themselves as quality players in the first team.

However for all that we can dissect the team and point our their weaknesses and failings the truth of the matter is they are only two points behind us in the league and are the current champions with a squad which, bar one obvious change, is the same one as are currently being heavily criticised.

We should never under estimate Fergie’s ability to get a team to play a lot better than the sum of their parts and although the only players in the current Utd team that I would have in our 16 are Rooney, Berbatov and Evra (notice I said 16 – Evra would be back up to Ashley Cole) I fully expect Sunday to be a nail biting affair and nothing like the mismatch I appear to be suggesting it should be.

In summary we should hump them. Drogba and Anelka are combining superbly and Vidic (who I do rate) will struggle to deal with their combined power and pace and our midfield four (which has to be Essien, Ballack, Lampard and either Joe or Deco) should be far too powerful for them. However we won’t hump them. Liverpool raised their game massively against United and United were hideously complacent, it is now United’s turn to raise their game and I fully expect them to.

Posted (edited)

some interesting points there loz. Cheers for that. I could make a thread about this in our forum for the game's build-up to see you getting slated by our muppets.

would you like to ? :)

Edited by nani
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Posted

Sure create the thread - also add that I think Bobby Charlton had a head like a two bob bit.

Posted

I'll have a go at analysing the playersw I think ,might start the game for Utd

1 - Van Der Sar - Defence seems far more confident knowing he's in goal. Has been susceptible to long range shots which have tended to bounce straight off him (this was the case even in his Fulham days). Having said that he's a very good shot stopper

2 - Brown - underrated in my opinion though I can understand why opposition fans don't like him. Very strong in the tackle and likely to take key players out of the game with his physical challenges.

3 - Evra - great overlapping full back and pretty useful tracking back at speed. Another of those players opposition fans tend to hate. It will be interesting to see how he copes with Ballack winding him up this time

4 - Fletcher - the fulcrum of the team unit for me. Probably the first name on Fergie's team sheet because he's become Mr Reliable. Tremendous at breaking up opposition play especially those that look to break quickly. Last seasons Champions League final result may well have been very different with him in the team

5 - Ferdinand - going through a rough patch. This will be a massive test of character for him if he does play though Anelka will fancy his chances as this is who is likely to be picking him up if he plays right alongside Drogs

6 - Vidic - Torres seems to have his number however Drogs hasn't yet mastered him. This could be the most crucial battle of the entire match. If Vidic gets under Drogs skin like we know he can it could be decisive for Utd

7 - Nani - started well in the Community Shield and caused us problems until he was inured. If he's up for it he could cause similar problems again

8 - Carrick - Steady player who becomes much more effective when Fletcher plays alongside him. When they play together they free each other up to weigh in with crucial goals

9 - Berbatov - an enigma with undoubted quality. Seems to let his head go down a little too easily. If he really started to believe in himself he would be truly world class

10 - Rooney - On fire this season. Hope Kai keeps him awake over the next few nights

11 – Valencia – Beginning to find his feet however still has a way to go. Goals in recent games will have gone a long way to improving his confidence

Posted
Bobby Charlton had a head like a two bob bit.

That will the the title of the thread. People will surely click it to see what the thread is about... :D



Posted

Living just outside Manchester , it seems reds fans fall into 2 distinctive catergories, most are dreaded the game and of course the ones who reckon they will do us about 4-0. I cant see this game being an open affair and expect United to pack midfield hoping to stifle us and nick a goal from somewhere.

I'd expect United to line up as

Van de Sar ....good keeper, gives the defence far more stabilty

Brown..... Good strong tackler let down by poor distribution from full back

Evra ......A close second to Ash as best left back in the world....Ash is a far better defender

Evans .....Young player not quite top class , could be given the runaround by Drogba

Vidic .....On his day as good as any defender in the world prone to getting into bad defensive positions

Anderson ... Good energy , headless chicken

Carrick......Doesnt cover his defence well enough , given time on the ball can pick a decisive pass

Giggs.....If allowed time on the ball , could be a match winner equally in the congested centre could get swamped

Flechter.... Good worker adds bite to the midfield , I hope he's the first in the refs book to negate his tough tackling effectiveness

Rooney ..... Will be asked to play wide left , get frustrated and lose his cool. In his own position he can dictate a game.

Berbatov ... Which player will turn up? Moody, great touch,equally can be totally invisable in a game

Valencia ....Erratic , not really a United player

Nani.....See Valencia

O'Shea ....Decent substitute

Scholes ...Past his best, gets away with far too mant poor challenges

I'd expect Utd to play 4, 5, 1

Whatever the result there wont be more than a goal in the game either way

Posted

United have been shaky this season and at times have offered little going forward. I think a lot of teams fear United because of their pedigree and therefore visiting teams to OT can loose before they get on the pitch.

United's problem is that they have no-one staying up front. Berbatov and Rooney are both forwards who like to drop deep, which is fine IF you have the wingers who run beyond them into central positions exploiting the space created by Berbatov and Rooney's movement. Ronaldo did this to stunning effect last 2 seasons. However out of United's current wingers; Valencia is a good player but sticks to the touchline rather than adopting a CF position, Nani doesn't have a brain and Giggs is now too slow to burst through the defence time and time again.

This all means that United are playing a system without the right players to pull it off (i.e. Ronaldo)

Owen would be the 1 player who'd adopt a classical CF position with either Berbatov or Rooney, but I can't see him staying fit for any amount of time nor does he seem to be particularly sharp anymore.

Then of course theres Rio, who seems to be going through an extended lack of form. But could you drop Ferdiand for Evans before a big game?

Of Course United are United and will always be an excellent team. Fergie seems to have a period of domination followed by a couple of season where he rebuilds the squad and then come backs to dominate. I think this is one of the seasons where United need to build the squad again.

VDS - 8 V.solid keeper

O'shea - 7 Useful utilty man

Brown - 7 Solid. .

Neville - 4 Past it

Ferdinand - 9.5 when on top of his game, at the moment 6

Vidic - 7 Excellent CB though can struggle against the best CF's, Torress has given him the run around on many occaisions (8 when Ferdinand is playing well)

Evans - 7 Very promising, no reason why he can't be up their with the best given time

Evra - 9 Just as good as Ashley Cole, who is very good

Carrick - 7 Good distribution, but can rarely take control of a game in the way that a Keane would do

Anderson - 6 Just don't rate him. What can he do that the rest of United's CM's cant?

Scholes - 7 Tends to either be woeful or incredible at this stage of his career. Still can't tackle and gets a way with condemnation because he's Scholes

Fletcher -8 Excellent energy, consistant performer, scores goals, tackles, doesn't get sent off. Made the most of his ability.

Park - 8 See Fletcher, but on the wing.

Berbatov 8 Don't think he's as lazy as people make out. His performance often depends on the rest of the team, awesome if supported. Won't bully defences like Drogba or Torres will

Rooney 9 Runs everywhere, lethal finisher, capable of magical skill. Needs to learn when to run around and when to stay put

Owen 6, 10 minute cameo's all season. Turning into the English Inzaghi



Posted
Anderson - 6 Just don't rate him. What can he do that the rest of United's CM's cant?

he delivered a fantastic assist for rooney's goal v blackburn. bent it inside one defender and around another and inch perfect to rooney's run

don't think anyone else in that midfield would have been capable of it tbh. he's got pace, power and skill along with terrific passing ability and i think he can be up there with the best midfielders in the world soon

ferguson made a statement about him last year saying he is the best young player in the world

Posted

You have to rate rooney, but the mobility and fluidity of the best united sides hasn't been there this season so far in what I've seen on tv.

Valencia has an accurate cross, better crosser than anyone in our side, Anderson does have great aerial pass and a good work rate, along with Fletcher should be the heart of Man U midfield, Anderson doesn't get forward far enough though and a bit short on pace.

giggs is playing well but doesn't have quite the pace and isn't going to take the ball box to box like he used to. Still very erratic in front of goal.

Evera is a talent and works well with Giggs in attack.

Berbatov has been unlucky in front of goal this season. He's hit the post a few times and had some good shots saved. However ManU won't play Berbatov, Rooney, Valencia and Giggs in the one team.

In defence Ferdiand's ability to win the ball in the air has been crucial in recent seasons. Hard to tell how up for this game he'll be. To date he's had the better of Drogs

I think right back will be their weakness and they may be lucky neville's suspended since he hasn't been the same player since coming back from injury.

Having said all that its the team and not the players that matter. Chelsea is an old team and power through the midfield is our trademark. Can we keep the power game going against this Manu team? I rather hope and fancy that we can. We won't run Anderson and Fletcher off their feet though and Rooney could still make Terry and and or Riccy look silly. Evra and Giggs will make our right back work very hard and require Ballack and or Essien's help.


Posted
Evra - 9 Just as good as Ashley Cole, who is very good

Owen 6, 10 minute cameo's all season. Turning into the English Inzaghi

Ooh, I disagree. Evra and Owen are nowhere near as good as Ashley Cole and Inzaghi respectively.

Posted

Two of my housemates are United fans (and they're actually from Manchester or thereabouts - who'd have thought) and as such, I've been subjected to watching more of their games this season than I would have liked. For me, the key reason they've been struggling with form at the moment is that they've not really picked a tactic/lineup and stuck with it long enough to build up any momentum. That may well be due to the unfortunate number of injuries, but in my opinion, there are too many positions at United at the moment where you can't say "Player X is almost definitely going to start this week".

Conversely, barring any injuries or suspensions, the Chelsea team near enough picks itself and we've been able to get into the groove of playing the diamond by sticking with it and using it for pretty much the whole season.



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