Geez, you're probably the only guy on here that saw every Chelsea game last season.

 

And David Silva is way ahead of most players. What a pointless statement.

 

I'm just saying that some people are making him to be brilliant when really he is anything but brilliant.

 

I'll give you a stat. Victor Moses scored 10 goals for us last season and assisted 4, Willian scored 4 and assisted 7. Is Victor Moses good enough to start for Chelsea as well ? because those stats are better than Willian's.

Edited June 7, 201412 yr by Scott Harris

So, does a simple 5 yard pass leading to a goal not count as an assist in your view?

 

Of course it does, but that doesn't mean he did anything great. Anyone can make a 5 yard pass.

It seems as if Willian's main role is to defend. Our tactics are more focused on tracking back because than getting into advanced positions. There's also the case that our tactic 70% of the time is pass to Hazard or shoot from long range, kinda hard for Willian to get loads of goals when our tactics are so bad when it comes to breaking down teams. It's so mechanical and tbh if it wasn't for our very high work rate we'd probably just scraped top 4

 

Willian's build up play has also been very good -- he's very important in stringing our player together whereas I haven't seen that as much with Schurrle. Schurrle is a useful player to have but isn't the kind of guy that could see taking on defences in the way hazard or willian would, either. 

 

He was never the sort of guy who relies solely on his goals, his build up play and work rate was what made him so good at Shakhtar, only thing is that he played a free role at Shakhtar and strung the play, at Chelsea our play is mechanical and our tactic is pass to Hazard, if not pass to Ivanovic/Ramires to cross or shoot which almost undoubtedly never reaches it's man or hits the target. He may not be a 30m sort of player yet but we'll see next season. 

 

Nonetheless, the final third from Willian isn't going to improve if we have one guy in the box facing 4 defenders that he has to thread through..

 

I hope you're right, but from what i have seen this season he seems incapable of threading a pass into the area without a defender cutting it out.

I'm just saying that some people are making him to be brilliant when really he is anything but brilliant.

 

I'll give you a stat. Victor Moses scored 10 goals for us last season and assisted 4, Willian scored 4 and assisted 7. Is Victor Moses good enough to start for Chelsea as well ? because those stats are better than Willian's.

 

No, some people are saying the notion that he doesn't create isn't true, and it isn't.

 

You're dismissing the stat because it doesn't fit your view of him. As someone says, you're probably one that would be praising the same stat if it was Mata playing for us.

 

You're being ridiculous with the Moses comparison. Moses adds nothing to a side in comparison to Willian. Not only is his defensive contribution poor but he loses possession a lot too.

 

Moses played for Liverpool last season by the way, maybe you weren't watching as closely as you think 

Of course it does, but that doesn't mean he did anything great. Anyone can make a 5 yard pass.

 

Why are you assuming and constantly repeating that a great % of the chances he created were simple 5 yard passes? Not that there's anything less worthy about the stat if they were either, a lot of assists come from short passes. There's more to an assist or creating a chance than the final pass you know?

 

Anybody can kick a ball into a net from 10 yards as well, another senseless point.

Edited June 7, 201412 yr by startedwithglenn

No, some people are saying the notion that he doesn't create isn't true, and it isn't.

 

You're dismissing the stat because it doesn't fit your view of him. As someone says, you're probably one that would be praising the same stat if it was Mata playing for us.

 

You're being ridiculous with the Moses comparison. Moses adds nothing to a side in comparison to Willian. Not only is his defensive contribution poor but he loses possession a lot too.

 

Moses played for Liverpool last season by the way, maybe you weren't watching as closely as you think 

 

I didn't say Moses was good enough, i was just making a point. If people are going to make out that that stat of Willians is good enough, then people will have to say that Moses is good enough because he was more of a threat on goal.

 

And i wouldn't go praising Mata on a chances created stat, i would praise him for what i seen him do on the pitch. And that was his ability to thread passes all over the pitch. That is why his chances created stat would look far more impressive than Willians.

Edited June 7, 201412 yr by Scott Harris

Nonetheless, the final third from Willian isn't going to improve if we have one guy in the box facing 4 defenders that he has to thread through..

There have been quite a few times this season when we have been on the break and Willian has 3 options to pass to and almost always picked the wrong one, either that or the pass was just awful. I remember in one game he had 4 chances on the break to play a simple final pass, there were at least 2 players he could have passed to (all I remember is that one of them was Oscar) and in each and every attempt he messed it up.

 

No one is expecting him to play Mata-esque balls, however I don't think it's asking much for him to be better in the final third in situations such as the one outlined above.

I didn't say Moses was good enough, i was just making a point. If people are going to make out that that stat of Willians is good enough, then people will have to say that Moses is good enough because he was more of a threat on goal.

 

And i wouldn't be go praising Mata on a chances created stat, i would praise him for what i seen him do on the pitch. And that was his ability to thread passes all over the pitch. That is why his chances created stat would look far more impressive than Willians.

 

But you're very wrongly assuming that people saying Willian is good enough are doing it solely on the basis of the stat.

 

That stat only reaffirms what some people think.

 

Believe it or not, and this might stagger you as you for some reason felt the need to mention it here of all places, you're not the only person here to watch every game and form opinions on players.

Why are you assuming and constantly repeating that a great % of the chances he created were simple 5 yard passes? Not that there's anything less worthy about the stat if they were either, a lot of assists come from short passes. There's more to an assist or creating a chance than the final pass you know?

 

Anybody can kick a ball into a net from 10 yards as well, another senseless point.

I'm not assuming, that is what i saw.

 

You're say a lot of chances are created from short passes, that is true, but clear cut chances are created from balls threaded into the area. Willian can't do this.

Am done arguing the point with you, it's pointless.

 

You're completely ignoring the esteemed company he is in in chances created.

I much prefer Schurrle to Willian.

Things happen when Schurrle is on the pitch, he makes smart runs off the ball and gets into good goal scoring positions.

I think he's going to have a great season now he's got a years experience under his belt.

I think if we want to be an effective counter attacking team then Schurrle has to start, it's a no brainer in that regard.

 

If we want to be compact and keep possession then Willian should start.

 

It's nice to have both players that offer something different though.

Am done arguing the point with you, it's pointless.

 

You're completely ignoring the esteemed company he is in in chances created.

 

Again, no i'm not. From what i have seen those players can thread a ball through, Willian can't.

 

Since you love these stats so much then take a look at this https://www.bsports.com/extratime/premier-league-2013-14-creativity-gerrard-hazard-nasri-silva#.U5MWNyjSbIU

 

 

As you can see, Moussa Sissoko, Robert Snodgrass and Ashley Westwood all created more chances than Willian did. So from your point of view we should be impressed with them too right ?

 

If Willians stat had come from some great crosses and through balls then i would be far more impressed but from what i saw last season his chances created were more from simple 5 yards passes than anything else.

Edited June 7, 201412 yr by Scott Harris

WhoScored.com @WhoScored · Jun 4

Willian: Created a chance more often (every 21 mins) than any other player with 15+ apps in Europe’s top 5 leagues in 2014 #CFC

Again, no i'm not. From what i have seen those players can thread a ball through, Willian can't.

 

Since you love these stats so much then take a look at this https://www.bsports.com/extratime/premier-league-2013-14-creativity-gerrard-hazard-nasri-silva#.U5MWNyjSbIU

 

 

As you can see, Moussa Sissoko, Robert Snodgrass and Ashley Westwood all created more chances than Willian did. So from your point of view we should be impressed with them too right ?

 

If Willians stat had come from some great crosses and through balls then i would be far more impressed but from what i saw last season his chances created were more from simple 5 yards passes than anything else.

 

 

You've just defeated your own argument 

You've just defeated your own argument 

 

No i haven't because my point is that it means very little. It's something you don't seem to understand.

 

WhoScored.com @WhoScored · Jun 4

Willian: Created a chance more often (every 21 mins) than any other player with 15+ apps in Europe’s top 5 leagues in 2014 #CFC

 

 

Again, it's meaningless if those chances were all 5 yard passes that led to a shot. Anyone can do that.

   

   

 

I don't know why you are being a twat. All you are proving is that you can't actually take part in a forum discussion without being childish.

You're the one being a twat. Some of the comparisons you've attempted to make don't show you in a very intelligent light.

 

Lineker and Shearer probably scored a couple hundred goals from inside six yards between them. Somebody should probably tell them they don't actually count because anybody could kick a ball a few yards into a net.

You're the one being a twat. Some of the comparisons you've attempted to make don't show you in a very intelligent light.

 

Lineker and Shearer probably scored a couple hundred goals from inside six yards between them. Somebody should probably tell them they don't actually count because anybody could kick a ball a few yards into a net.

 

Yeah, because they both were experts at making good movements.

 

Finding space to score a tap in from 5 yards out is a lot harder than making a 5 yard pass outside of the penalty area.

 

Now who is making ridiculous comparisons ?

Edited June 7, 201412 yr by Scott Harris

Yeah, because they both were experts at making good movements.

 

Finding space to score a tap in from 5 yards out is a lot harder than making a 5 yard pass outside of the penalty area.

 

Now who is making ridiculous comparisons ?

 

 

If all he does is make 5 yard passes and it's all so easy then surely everyone would be doing it and have an overall better chances created than him because in your words everyone can do what he does but they're all capable of threading passes on top of that while he isn't.

 

Hmmmmmm, why is he only second to David Silva in shot assists per 90 minutes in the premier league if the above is true? I know, maybe it's because the above is a complete fallacy, that could explain it.

You do know that statistic chart shows Willian created the second most chances right? Far more then both Siissokho and Snodgrass

Maybe, just maybe, you should try actually looking at the sheet before making bold claims next time?

Edited June 7, 201412 yr by Xfaxtor

You do know that statistic chart shows Willian created the second most chances right? Far more then both Siissokho and Snodgrass

Maybe, just maybe, you should try actually looking at the sheet before making bold claims next time?

 

No, it shows that he created the 2nd most chances over the course of 90 minutes.

No, it shows that he created the 2nd most chances over the course of 90 minutes.

Exactly. So when he played he created more chances then the ones you mentioned.

There is no point arguing about this anymore. I know what i saw and i what i saw throughout last season was that Willian failed on nearly every occassion when trying to thread a ball through a defense. And yeah i do believe that most of Willians chances created were from simple passes because that is what i saw.

 

Unless we can prove each wrong then there is no way to settle this argument so let's just leave it at that.