Watching chelsea tv commentary on u18's and u21's you'd think we had team of world beaters and yes we have some good players but we are still not delivering. The strategy isn't working as;

1. The loan players going abroad are not coming back better players, if at all

2. The loan players going to the championship or division 1 - ditto

3. The players we keep on the fringes of squad - ditto. Oh and I am not counting zouma cos he didn't. Come thru the academy

Solution is to pick a player and play him in the first team and give him a run and keep him in even if he is slow to pickup

Or

Scrap the academy, radical yes but be realistic as it ain't doing what it's there to do.

How about give the academy more time? Man Utd havent really produced anyone outstanding from their famous set up for a while

 

People talk about playing youngsters yet whenever we lose a game everyone gets suicidal and criticise every player.

 

Bertrand, Bamford, Omerou all seem to be doing alright, Also im sure the new loans for Baker & Kalas will help them.

 

Im a believer in saying we should play them in the carling cup though.

Need a chance to break into the first team which they don't get.

We have 2+ world class players for every position and a number of players that can cover multiple positions if needed, yet fans and experts still moan that city's squad is stronger and that could cost us. The only way youth is going to get a real chance is if either ; one of them shows early and undoubtedly that they are going to become one of the best players in the world. Or, if the club changes its mentality and adopts an approach similar to Arsenal - we'd like to stay around the top but winning the league is never really the aim at the start of the season......but we'll play some youngsters.

That said I do think one player from the academy per season could be integrated, given game time at every opportunity for a whole season without it costing us league places. Then at the end of the season a decision made, is he a first teamer or not, if not sell him.

The other consideration is; what is the aim of the academy? If it's to run without a financial loss in the hope that we do see that world beater come through one day, then I expect they are delivering. If it's to put x players a year into the first team then they're failing miserably.

We have 2+ world class players for every position and a number of players that can cover multiple positions if needed, yet fans and experts still moan that city's squad is stronger and that could cost us. The only way youth is going to get a real chance is if either ; one of them shows early and undoubtedly that they are going to become one of the best players in the world. Or, if the club changes its mentality and adopts an approach similar to Arsenal - we'd like to stay around the top but winning the league is never really the aim at the start of the season......but we'll play some youngsters.

That said I do think one player from the academy per season could be integrated, given game time at every opportunity for a whole season without it costing us league places. Then at the end of the season a decision made, is he a first teamer or not, if not sell him.

The other consideration is; what is the aim of the academy? If it's to run without a financial loss in the hope that we do see that world beater come through one day, then I expect they are delivering. If it's to put x players a year into the first team then they're failing miserably.

 

 

Pretty much this. but you know the fan's our no better. We have a full thread on Reaus which names a load of other players when we could be giving opportunity's to Boga and Torgan. Torgan isn't even really youth team. Baker is a great player  at youth level but he's only going to progress with games. 

 

I mentioned it early in the season, Sterling would be out on loan not achieving much if we had brought  him from QPR, Barkley would be out on loan if he had come through are youth system, and if Bertrand was a Southampton player last season we would be talking about a 20 million bid. To develop players they need more attention from their parent club. 

 

Another thing to consider is they get brought up with a certain style of football, with quality players around them and lot of time on the ball and at 19 they are sent to a championship side where they have to completely re-develop there game. I see no point in this what so ever. We have never brought a player from the championship so why loan players out to get experience there ? I'd much rather they went abroad every time

Not sure what the obsession about producing youth players is, we're one of the best 10 sides in Europe, we're not reliant on promoting academy players because if there is a weakness in the squad we are in the fortunate position of being able to go out and buy the required player.

End of the day 90% of our youth players were bought anyway so what difference does it make if we buy them at 16, train them and loan them out until ready or just buying the finished product? The player was still bought somewhere along the lines.

Not sure what the obsession about producing youth players is, we're one of the best 10 sides in Europe, we're not reliant on promoting academy players because if there is a weakness in the squad we are in the fortunate position of being able to go out and buy the required player.

End of the day 90% of our youth players were bought anyway so what difference does it make if we buy them at 16, train them and loan them out until ready or just buying the finished product? The player was still bought somewhere along the lines.

 

There's a financial benefit to producing players rather than buying them but it's also about having that link with a player that you don't always get from signing them. 

 

What we need is stability so that there's a framework for young players to be brought into. We are getting to that point now so it's a lot easier to integrate players like RLC than it would be if we were struggling.

It's all everyone else's fault but the player.

 

We are a top 10 club, the players who will make it here are the cream of the crop. top 0.1% of players. The chances of us producing such players every year is slim at best. They have to go on loan to get playing time because it won't happen here. Then if they don't perform on loan its the players fault, not the clubs.

 

Players won't suddenly become good enough by being forced into the first team.

It's all everyone else's fault but the player.

 

We are a top 10 club, the players who will make it here are the cream of the crop. top 0.1% of players. The chances of us producing such players every year is slim at best. They have to go on loan to get playing time because it won't happen here. Then if they don't perform on loan its the players fault, not the clubs.

 

Players won't suddenly become good enough by being forced into the first team.

 

 

But you have to ask, we repeatedly get to the final of youth cup competions and win it. Yet it looks more likly we would buy a prospect from everton then the most successful youth team in the  country? 

Just means we have a good group of players (which you'd expect, we pay a bunch for them), but the guy whose good enough is at say Everton, surrounded by players not as good so he isn't winning youth cups but his career will go further than most other kids.

 

Also, note that Evertons best youth, Barkley, is is playing for the first team. I'd hazard a guess that a lot of the good U21's are not playing for the youth team, but the first team at their respective clubs. 

 

I admit though I don't follow youth teams because I feel it's a fools errand. Bunch of guesswork imo unless you are a trained scout.

Edited January 19, 201511 yr by Stim

There's a financial benefit to producing players rather than buying them but it's also about having that link with a player that you don't always get from signing them. 

 

What we need is stability so that there's a framework for young players to be brought into. We are getting to that point now so it's a lot easier to integrate players like RLC than it would be if we were struggling.

 

There is a financial benefit yes but what are odds of a top 10 club actually producing and promoting a player from their academy. 

 

In the last 10 years how many top quality players have the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich, Manchester United successfully promoted and kept in their first team squads?

 

As for the emotional bond to a youth product I think if the player is good enough the fans will respond. Lampard wasn't a academy player but through his efforts on the pitch he became a fan favourite despite coming from West Ham. 

 

Look at how quickly Diego Costa has endeared himself to the fans through his efforts on the pitch. 

 

As I said, it's a lovely ideology to have this theoretical conveyor belt of academy players but for me personally as long as we are winning on the pitch I couldn't care how the players ended up in the team. 

It's all everyone else's fault but the player.

 

We are a top 10 club, the players who will make it here are the cream of the crop. top 0.1% of players. The chances of us producing such players every year is slim at best. They have to go on loan to get playing time because it won't happen here. Then if they don't perform on loan its the players fault, not the clubs.

 

Players won't suddenly become good enough by being forced into the first team.

 

 

As I said above, I believe if Barkley had been with us he wouldn't be doing as well 

There is a financial benefit yes but what are odds of a top 10 club actually producing and promoting a player from their academy. 

 

In the last 10 years how many top quality players have the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich, Manchester United successfully promoted and kept in their first team squads?

 

 

United and Barca's success was built on their academies. One could argue that in not sticking with that philosophy United have actually lost out on one of the best young players in Europe (Pogba). Bayern had a few decent players come through the system, in Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Badstuber, Muller, Alaba, Kroos and even Hummels. That's not a shabby list of Champions League and World Cup winners.

 

I'm not saying we need that type of success but an Ake or Loftus-Cheek promoted from within saves us the £17 million-odd we spent on Ramires. 

 

 

As I said, it's a lovely ideology to have this theoretical conveyor belt of academy players but for me personally as long as we are winning on the pitch I couldn't care how the players ended up in the team. 

 

In the future they will probably be linked. We do amazing work in the transfer market but it's just another way to remain competitive under FFP.

This is such a hard one. The longer-term members on here will know how I have harped on about youth for some time now. I know I'm not alone, many of us have but I seemed to get a little more frustrated than others and I'm still pretty much devastated that Josh is wearing our No.10 jersey right now!! 

 

But I have had to accept, that it comes down to a pretty simple equation. You cannot expect to be one of the tops sides in world football and also expect to be bringing youth players through to the first team. It just ain't gonna happen. Sure, teams like Everton and Southampton can do it, but you are unlikely to see them getting near to winning the PL or making the latter stages of the CL. Even sides like Arsenal - if you are happy just to be viewed as a good side, making the top 4 but not seriously considered as going to win the big trophies, then again, you can take a gamble on some youth.

 

I was most disappointed when we were going through a bit of a transition (under AVB) when it looked clear we weren't going to win anything so the time was right to try some of the young players. But it didn't even happen then as still there was too much pressure on the coaching staff to succeed. Now, with Mourinho back, if he can bring one or two players through he will, but it won't be at the expense of compromising on results. You can't have your cake and eat it - as much as it would be nice. And those who talk about the Man Utd side - that's a heck of a long time ago now and different times. Would that same Man Utd side be as successful NOW, trying to compete against Mourinho's Chelsea and City's mega-million pound squad? Almost certainly not.

 

Still hope one or two of the current academy make it through but I have given up putting too much optimism in it.

As I said above, I believe if Barkley had been with us he wouldn't be doing as well 

let me add that if barkley was in our first team squad but was playing the way he has been for everton this season you can guarantee the majority of the supporters on this forum would be saying he's proven he's not good enough and we should be looking to sell him and sign... james ward prowse maybe?

 You cannot expect to be one of the tops sides in world football and also expect to be bringing youth players through to the first team.

 

Bayern.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Munich.

Bayern.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Munich.

 

Haven't got time to look into but how many academy players do they have in their first team?

Haven't got time to look into but how many academy players do they have in their first team?

 

In their last match they had 3 I think. No Lahm or Alaba in that one.

 

To me it's a balancing act. Where Bayern have the edge is through their dominance of their league (something we may well be approaching at the youth level) and a B Team, for whom I think all of these players appeared.

 

We need that in this country and I'd be quite happy to see a few lower league teams fold in order for that to happen.

In their last match they had 3 I think. No Lahm or Alaba in that one.

 

To me it's a balancing act. Where Bayern have the edge is through their dominance of their league (something we may well be approaching at the youth level) and a B Team, for whom I think all of these players appeared.

 

We need that in this country and I'd be quite happy to see a few lower league teams fold in order for that to happen.

The fans of those teams wouldn't and rightly so, we're not more important than any other club regardless of size.  Well apart from: tottenham,westham,milwall, leeds,liverpool,manutd,leicester,wolves,stoke,sunderland,newcastle,wigan,everton,cardiff........you get the idea though.

The fans of those teams wouldn't and rightly so, we're not more important than any other club regardless of size.  Well apart from: tottenham,westham,milwall, leeds,liverpool,manutd,leicester,wolves,stoke,sunderland,newcastle,wigan,everton,cardiff........you get the idea though.

 

I know I'll sound like a prick but f**k'em.

 

It's like the argument about 3 o'clock kick-offs not being screened because it might reduce attendances at lower league grounds. To me that's just tough luck. Football is part of the entertainment business and if your 'act' isn't drawing the punters whilst 300,000 people want to watch a Chelsea game then that's life unfortunately.

 

On a more serious note, us doing well in Europe raises this country's co-efficient so other teams can compete in European competitions, thus having more money to afford better players to increase the exposure of smaller teams and earn them more TV revenue. Germany allows B-teams as does Spain and it's worked out pretty well for their national team too. I was gonna count how many of Spain's 2010 World Cup squad played for a team with 'B' in the name but got bored after 10.

 

At some point people need to ask if we can maybe annoy the 8,000 people who watch Cheltenham, Morecombe, Dagenham and Accrington each week by dropping them out of the football league and maybe bringing through some top English talent who could be playing in front of 80,000 people at Wembley.

Agree with a lot of the points made although I am sure there are teams with home grown players in their first team squads and they make it work. Clearly the youth recruitment works well until u21 level as we are probably best uk academy currently and that includes acquisitions like izzy brown and bamford. And the youth coaching is good too, it's the link into the 1st team.

We know they train regularly with the 1st team so that's ok too.

And we name some academy players in the squads but we need to find reasons to play them more, see if they are good enough.

I agree to some extent it doesn't matter where we get the players but we must retain the culture in the club that you get from a home grown product like JT

So my solution is to adopt a must play em policy, give a couple of them 10 games or so in a season like we are with zouma, find a way to get em played.

Ake yes, and Rubén yes, give them a full season

If we can't bring through/play just one youth player without results going wrong then I think there's a problem with the set up at the club. No one is wanting us to go to the extreme and do an Arsenal. 

I think José should rotate more in the PL/FA Cup/CL with players like Schürrle, Luis, Ramires, Remy, Mikel and Salah, so that some of our youth players can show what they got in the Capital One Cup. Especially in the first few rounds (against Bolton, Shrewsbury Town and Derby County) we should have given Aké, Loftus-Cheek, etcetera more chances in my opinion. I mean, if Salah already doesn't get play time, how could Loftus-Cheek ever come into the first team for more than 5 minutes?

in all honestly, Ake right now is the only player I think is ready.

in all honestly, Ake right now is the only player I think is ready.

To be fair, he us the only one that has had a decent amount of opportunities to prove himself. Hard to say any of the others aren't ready, when they haven't been given the opportunity.