Of course it has.

Champions League should mean just that...the champions.

England getting 3 other sides is a joke and it's starving other clubs who finish as Champions but instead get put into qualifiers of vital money.

The CL keeps the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Of course it has.

Champions League should mean just that...the champions.

England getting 3 other sides is a joke and it's starving other clubs who finish as Champions but instead get put into qualifiers of vital money.

The CL keeps the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Because the Slovenian champions should be put straight into the group stage?

It's about having the best teams play each other. I'd much rather we play a team like Real Madrid than Ludogorets.

Because the Slovenian champions should be put straight into the group stage?

It's about having the best teams play each other. I'd much rather we play a team like Real Madrid than Ludogorets.

Yes.

How bloody selfish short-sighted is that comment!

You turn your nose down to teams like that because they don’t have the players to compete? Why is that exactly do you think? Anything to do with the £15+ million windfall from the CL group stages?

Champions League should be exactly that, champions of the country. No wonder Dutch, Scottish, Slovenian and the rest of the other leagues are suffering big time due to money…because competitions like this spit on their faces while rewarding the clubs who don’t finish as champions but play in a higher profile league.

Yes.

How bloody selfish short-sighted is that comment!

You turn your nose down to teams like that because they don’t have the players to compete? Why is that exactly do you think? Anything to do with the £15+ million windfall from the CL group stages?

Champions League should be exactly that, champions of the country. No wonder Dutch, Scottish, Slovenian and the rest of the other leagues are suffering big time due to money…because competitions like this spit on their faces while rewarding the clubs who don’t finish as champions but play in a higher profile league.

 

Do you know why the Dutch, Scottish and Slovenian leagues are suffering? Because they're in Holland, Scotland and Slovenia. 

 

The Champions League isn't just about the champions - that's true. It's about the best players in the best teams in the best leagues competing against one another. Nobody wants to see the Slovenian champions play apart from Slovenians and whilst you might think that's short-sighted, it's also realistic.

 

And yes it's also selfish because I'm a Chelsea supporter first and I want to see my team do well and play against the best. I'm also a football supporter and next year I'd much rather see James Rodriguez, Ronaldo et al compete on the best stage rather than .....I can't be bothered to Google the name of a player in the Slovenian leagues. Sorry.

 

The Champions League has become the best competition that football has ever seen in my opinion where you regularly see the very best compete against one another. No it hasn't ruined domestic football either. In fact it's probably helped us attract a higher calibre of player to the club and it's questionable whether Roman invests in this club if we don't secure CL football in 2003.

Do you know why the Dutch, Scottish and Slovenian leagues are suffering? Because they're in Holland, Scotland and Slovenia. 

 

The Champions League isn't just about the champions - that's true. It's about the best players in the best teams in the best leagues competing against one another. Nobody wants to see the Slovenian champions play apart from Slovenians and whilst you might think that's short-sighted, it's also realistic.

 

And yes it's also selfish because I'm a Chelsea supporter first and I want to see my team do well and play against the best. I'm also a football supporter and next year I'd much rather see James Rodriguez, Ronaldo et al compete on the best stage rather than .....I can't be bothered to Google the name of a player in the Slovenian leagues. Sorry.

 

The Champions League has become the best competition that football has ever seen in my opinion where you regularly see the very best compete against one another. No it hasn't ruined domestic football either. In fact it's probably helped us attract a higher calibre of player to the club and it's questionable whether Roman invests in this club if we don't secure CL football in 2003.

 

Typical of you Blue Daze.

 

The European Cup as it was, was a fantastic competition back in the day and was only changed because the big clubs couldn't handle not being in the top competition every year.

 

The Uefa Cup was a fantastic competition and probably the hardest to win in Europe back before the Champions League stole its competition.

 

The Cup Winners Cup was also a great competition.

 

All three competitions had their own identity and all were good European competitions, now we're left with 1 moneypot competition thats loaded towards the richest clubs, and continues to feed those rich clubs.

 

To answer your question of do I want to watch the Slovenian champions in a competition called 'The Champions League' yes I do.

Edited May 27, 201511 yr by shedpensioner

Do you know why the Dutch, Scottish and Slovenian leagues are suffering? Because they're in Holland, Scotland and Slovenia.

The Champions League isn't just about the champions - that's true. It's about the best players in the best teams in the best leagues competing against one another. Nobody wants to see the Slovenian champions play apart from Slovenians and whilst you might think that's short-sighted, it's also realistic.

And yes it's also selfish because I'm a Chelsea supporter first and I want to see my team do well and play against the best. I'm also a football supporter and next year I'd much rather see James Rodriguez, Ronaldo et al compete on the best stage rather than .....I can't be bothered to Google the name of a player in the Slovenian leagues. Sorry.

The Champions League has become the best competition that football has ever seen in my opinion where you regularly see the very best compete against one another. No it hasn't ruined domestic football either. In fact it's probably helped us attract a higher calibre of player to the club and it's questionable whether Roman invests in this club if we don't secure CL football in 2003.

Shouldn't be called the Champions League then should it.

Make the richer and the poor poorer typical Uefa.

Stinks

If the Champions League isn't about the Champions then they shouldn't have bloody called it the Champions League. I really don't see how why Celtic for example should had to qualify when they're the Champions of their league. It's daft.

The old way of European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup was miles better IMO. When we won the CWC in 98 that felt bloody huge as it should. They wonder why people don't care as much about the Europa League these days.

Also how anyone can say that the whole idea of the CL hasn't ruined the domestic cups is ridiculous. If it weren't for the structure that is the CL then the FA Cup and League Cup would be seen as the competitions they once were.

Also lets not forget that CWC success in the early 90s was massive for United and Ferguson. Who did they play in the final? Only Barcelona. Having all the top teams in one competition is actually the problem and a reason these big clashes aren't as special as they once were.

Edited May 27, 201511 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

Shouldn't be called the Champions League then should it.

Make the richer and the poor poorer typical Uefa.

Stinks

Technically it shouldn't be called a league either because it's not.

Yes it does exist to make the rich richer, but you support a rich team. Self interest is always going to exist.

Typical of you Blue Daze.

The European Cup as it was, was a fantastic competition back in the day and was only changed because the big clubs couldn't handle not being in the top competition every year.

The Uefa Cup was a fantastic competition and probably the hardest to win in Europe back before the Champions League stole its competition.

The Cup Winners Cup was also a great competition.

All three competitions had their own identity and all were good European competitions, now we're left with 1 moneypot competition thats loaded towards the richest clubs, and continues to feed those rich clubs.

To answer your question of do I want to watch the Slovenian champions in a competition called 'The Champions League' yes I do.

In what way is that typical of me? Because I want to see the best teams compete against each other? Sorry but once you've seen Barcelona at the bridge being demolished 3-0 then it's hard to go back to watching us play Austria Vienna and Victoria Zizkov... So please don't lecture me about what things used to be like in the old days because I was there mate.

It was typical of your approach to the rich getting richer while the poor can go f**k themeselves.

 

Oh you was there, well whoopy do for you!

 

Guess what, you weren't the only one, I was there, along with countless others.

 

When we dropped to the Europa League a couple of seasons back, I loved it, because we got to see teams that we'd not seen for a few years, to play in other places!

 

Give me back the old European system any day!

It was typical of your approach to the rich getting richer while the poor can go f**k themeselves.

 

Oh you was there, well whoopy do for you!

 

Guess what, you weren't the only one, I was there, along with countless others.

 

When we dropped to the Europa League a couple of seasons back, I loved it, because we got to see teams that we'd not seen for a few years, to play in other places!

 

Give me back the old European system any day!

 

We're in the business of football and to be honest, the club's approach is pretty much the same. We backed FFP to stop other teams doing what we did and to turn the CL into a closed shop. Why don't you moan at Roman and the board for telling the poorer teams to go f**k themselves??

 

I get that as people reach a certain age they get nostalgic for days of yore, but maybe the CWC run felt special in 1995 because we hadn't had European competition for so long. Maybe the 1998 win felt so special because we'd not had European success for 27 years.

 

We're not that club anymore. We have loftier expectations so maybe if you have a need for those old days this isn't the club for you. That's not me being intentionally rude but simply pointing out that maybe your needs aren't aligned with this club's anymore.

 

Also how anyone can say that the whole idea of the CL hasn't ruined the domestic cups is ridiculous. If it weren't for the structure that is the CL then the FA Cup and League Cup would be seen as the competitions they once were.

 

 

It has diminished them. So?

 

The League Cup was set up for purely financial reasons and it's been usurped by competitions with greater financial rewards. 

 

But the benefit of the CL, and the Premier League to a similar extent, is that the product on show is of a far higher quality. We get to watch better players consistently playing against the best opposition. Chelsea actually has something of a rivalry with Barcelona....that is crazy but it's a beautiful thing to be able to say.

 

The world has gotten smaller. Local rivalries are still the most important thing but we can now interact with fans from other clubs around the world, we can watch their matches every week and we can get to these matches quicker and cheaper than ever before.

 

The Champions League was an inevitable consequence of technological change. I honestly think this thread is nothing more than the inevitable response to that - 'things were better in my day'.

This isn't about us this is about Football as a whole and if The CL has ruined domestic football.

The answer can only be yes as the money is distributed among the same clubs year on year.

If you had the actual Champions playing from countries around Europe then guess what? The level of those teams and players in it increases ten fold meaning more competition, better games and new places to see and travel to for us fans.

The Champions League is nothing more than a rich boys playground where it's the same teams, same games and same outcomes nearly all the time.

Imagine winning a league over a long period, slugging it out blood and guts to be rewarded with 3 QF's to play before you can even make any decent money? Is that meant to be a reward?

Is it F**K.

We're in the business of football and to be honest, the club's approach is pretty much the same. We backed FFP to stop other teams doing what we did and to turn the CL into a closed shop. Why don't you moan at Roman and the board for telling the poorer teams to go f**k themselves??

 

 

 

Yes I do think that the premise behind FFP is wrong, making the top level a closed shop is ridiculously wrong!

 

If I were to win the £100m on the Lotto & wanted to spend the money on my local football team to make them a force, who is to tell me I can't?

 

Oh yeah another bunch of businessmen who want to keep themeselves in a select club!

It has diminished them. So?

The League Cup was set up for purely financial reasons and it's been usurped by competitions with greater financial rewards.

But the benefit of the CL, and the Premier League to a similar extent, is that the product on show is of a far higher quality. We get to watch better players consistently playing against the best opposition. Chelsea actually has something of a rivalry with Barcelona....that is crazy but it's a beautiful thing to be able to say.

The world has gotten smaller. Local rivalries are still the most important thing but we can now interact with fans from other clubs around the world, we can watch their matches every week and we can get to these matches quicker and cheaper than ever before.

The Champions League was an inevitable consequence of technological change. I honestly think this thread is nothing more than the inevitable response to that - 'things were better in my day'.

So you prefer to have only two competitions that teams take seriously good for you. Exactly financial rewards, football is about winning trophies for the fans not just the financial awards. The domestic cups used to be amazing and winning them meant a hell of a lot. Now though those cups are seen as less important than a top four finished because you get CL and the money it brings. It's ruined those domestic cups.

Well if you think that then why keep arguing about it? Again clear you love an argument.

This isn't about us this is about Football as a whole and if The CL has ruined domestic football.

The answer can only be yes as the money is distributed among the same clubs year on year.

 

It's not as big an issue in this country because you still have massive money being distributed amongst the teams from the domestic TV rights. We also have a very competitive domestic league and the gap between the top and bottom has probably narrowed over time, something I've mentioned before.

 

If you had the actual Champions playing from countries around Europe then guess what? The level of those teams and players in it increases ten fold meaning more competition, better games and new places to see and travel to for us fans.

 

 

Really? I honestly don't think the level of competition in Slovenia or Scotland is going to increase much if they're playing in the CL simply because these aren't attractive propositions for top talent. What you'll get is a weaker CL competition.

 

And it's not just these minnows who I'm talking about, but also leagues like France. I've long believed that the PSG model is unsustainable because even though PSG may well progress in Europe regularly, the level of competition in the domestic league simply won't improve. 

 

The other flaw in your argument is that if you have one team from each of these countries getting a slice of the CL pie then they'll have far more financial muscle in their own leagues. They'd be able to dominate every year. 

 

The Champions League is nothing more than a rich boys playground where it's the same teams, same games and same outcomes nearly all the time.

 

 

Chelsea are one of the rich boys. We like this playground. Should we apologise for that?

 

Imagine winning a league over a long period, slugging it out blood and guts to be rewarded with 3 QF's to play before you can even make any decent money? Is that meant to be a reward?

Is it F**K.

 

Yes it's a reward. Unfortunately your league is sh*t so we'd rather not have to put you on TV because no-one wants to watch you.

 

Sport is a business, not a charity.

 

 

If I were to win the £100m on the Lotto & wanted to spend the money on my local football team to make them a force, who is to tell me I can't?

 

 

Roman Abramovich.

So you prefer to have only two competitions that teams take seriously good for you. Exactly financial rewards, football is about winning trophies for the fans not just the financial awards. The domestic cups used to be amazing and winning them meant a hell of a lot. Now though those cups are seen as less important than a top four finished because you get CL and the money it brings. It's ruined those domestic cups.

Well if you think that then why keep arguing about it? Again clear you love an argument.

 

You've asked a question, I've offered a point of view. If you don't want discussion or if you only want certain views expressed then say so.

 

I like all the competitions but I have a hierarchy of which ones I'd like to win, as do most fans in my experience. The league is the big one, the CL is next and then there's the FA Cup which has tremendous history but simply lacks some of the importance it once had. Part of that is financial but part of that is simply a result of the growth of the Premier League and Champions League.

 

That's the fundamental flaw with your argument. The CL hasn't ruined domestic football because domestic football, specifically the Premier League, has fundamentally changed the way cup competitions are viewed. The amount of money the PL brings in is too big to be ignored, not just by us but by teams at the bottom of the table. Ask Leicester or Sunderland or even Aston Villa what was more important this season and it will probably be the league.

 

Again, football has changed radically over the last 20 years. It hasn't been ruined.

So nobody would want to watch PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord, Celtic or Rangers in the Champions League?

Why are people using the Scottish league as an example? Celtic have already monopolised the league & steal everyone else's best players, how would giving them more money make the league better? It would make the divide even larger & they'd win the league by January.

You've asked a question, I've offered a point of view. If you don't want discussion or if you only want certain views expressed then say so.

I like all the competitions but I have a hierarchy of which ones I'd like to win, as do most fans in my experience. The league is the big one, the CL is next and then there's the FA Cup which has tremendous history but simply lacks some of the importance it once had. Part of that is financial but part of that is simply a result of the growth of the Premier League and Champions League.

That's the fundamental flaw with your argument. The CL hasn't ruined domestic football because domestic football, specifically the Premier League, has fundamentally changed the way cup competitions are viewed. The amount of money the PL brings in is too big to be ignored, not just by us but by teams at the bottom of the table. Ask Leicester or Sunderland or even Aston Villa what was more important this season and it will probably be the league.

Again, football has changed radically over the last 20 years. It hasn't been ruined.

No the emergence of the Champions League as it is with three to four teams getting in has ruined the importance of the domestic cups, it's the financial impact of getting into it that has seen clubs take their eye off the cups. When the old structure was in place the cups were still viewed as great honours especially the FA Cup. Nowadays because of the financial impact of the CL they're seen as a nice trinket to go alongside a CL place for to many clubs.

Did I say football had been ruined? No I didn't I said the CL has ruined domestic football and by that as I said in my original post it was in reference to the League Cup and FA Cup.

Edited May 27, 201511 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

So nobody would want to watch PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord, Celtic or Rangers in the Champions League?

 

I'm sure there is an audience for these teams but if we're looking at the revenue that these leagues generate then I think you have to be realistic about how big that audience is. 

No the emergence of the Champions League as it is with three to four teams getting in has ruined the importance of the domestic cups, it's the financial impact of getting into it that has seen clubs take their eye off the cups. When the old structure was in place the cups were still viewed as great honours especially the FA Cup. Nowadays because of the financial impact of the CL they're seen as a nice trinket to go alongside a CL place for to many clubs.

 

So you don't think the growth of the Premier League and the associated television rights have had any impact on the importance of domestic trophies?

 

In the interests of fairness, this is one of those times where I'm asking a question where there's really only one right answer. 

Edited May 27, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

So you don't think the growth of the Premier League and the associated television rights have had any impact on the importance of domestic trophies?

No I don't because it wasn't until they started to grow the CL that the problem emerged.

Love how you ignore my final part but that's you all other choosing and picking the parts that suit your argument:

Edited May 27, 201511 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

In the interests of fairness, this is one of those times where I'm asking a question where there's really only one right answer.

Stop been such a cocky twat!

No I don't because it want until they started to grow the CL that the problem emerged.

Love how you ignore my final part but that's you all other choosing and picking the parts that suit your argument:

 

That wasn't the right answer. 

 

Realistically there are 7 clubs (?) who have a realistic shot at Champions league football each year. That means the rest are playing for what? What is top of their priorities? 

 

Is it the League Cup which is a great little competition to win, or is it their league status which is worth upwards of £150 million per season?

 

That's the economic reality of modern football. Has the Champions League played a role? Absolutely. But the growth of that competition has seen more clubs benefit from being at the top table, even if it's still a relatively small table. Even so, the growth of the domestic league has seen clubs focus more on their league status than the cups. That doesn't mean people ignore the cups, but they've simply had to be realistic about what is in their best interests going forward.

 

Now if you think I haven't addressed any points then highlight them and I'll try my best but I think you have to acknowledge that your view is tied up in nostalgia for an era that simply doesn't (and probably can't) exist in the modern market.

 

Stop been such a cocky twat!

 

Oh do have some good humour. If you're going to argue a point then at least have some fun with it. At least I was honest when I admitted that the question I asked didn't have anything except one correct answer. 

 

In retrospect it may have been mean to ask it, but I honestly didn't expect you to answer 'No'.

Edited May 27, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

You are so cocky, how does it only have one answer?

If Europe wasn't so profitable do you honestly believe teams wouldn't take the League Cup and FA Cup more seriously?