To get the topic back on track.

 

How many of those in the discussion remember the old European Cup format, the old Uefa Cup format?

 

The European nights back then were just as good if not better back then, it wasn't all designed as a cash cow, if you lost over 2 legs that was it you were out!

 

These days football is a business nothing more, nothing less.

I see you've resorted to your usual trick of ignoring what was said and come up with your own response.

 

Yes these days I find it difficult to get to the Bridge, however I still lend my membership out to people on here, I also try to attend a few away days a season, which I find are far more enjoyable and there seems to be less of the pretentious pricks like you at them!

 

I take it you don't want to come up to the NE for a visit and are to cowardly to meet over the weekend by your lack of reply.

 

Why would I come up to the North-East? Seriously? I'm not going to do it just to talk to you, I'm obviously not going to do it for any other reason, and I'm busy this weekend so am unlikely to cancel plans.

 

When I say to people similar stuff, it's usually based on meeting them at a point of common interest - a Chelsea match. That's because I understand it's easier to combine this stuff with an activity you're already doing (like sitting in the Prince of Wales with mates before a match) rather than specifically going out of your way to meet somebody for 'words'. That to me is a little sad (no offence). So why don't you wait until the fixture list is out, book the time off from your weekend job, download google maps and then arrange to meet me at a pub near the ground where I'll already be. Isn't that far more sensible?

I think the problem with this whole debate is that it's very hard to distinguish the effects that the Champions League has had from the Premier League. Both were fundamentally altered in 1992 and the financial effects from both have made profound changes to the way almost every club operates.

 

Some will see those changes as bad, others will say that the level of football is better than it's ever been. But whenever something changes, you will get those who say 'it was better in my day'. That's not a criticism of anyone, simply an inescapable fact in any walk of life.

 

Now we can all express an opinion as to whether it is better or not because that's a subjective thing, but there are certain objective truths that I think some are refusing to acknowledge. One of those is the impact that the Premier League has had on English football, especially the finances, and how that has impacted the domestic cups. But I think Crem and I have a fair point that globalisation has been the biggest enemy of these trophies - don't forget Man United pulled out of the FA Cup to play in the Club World Cup. That may have had a more profound impact on it's status than anything else.

 

Ultimately though, football is a business. Contrary to what some may believe, it's always been that way (the League Cup was set up purely as a revenue maker) but now it's on a much larger scale. The domestic league is worth more, the Champions League is worth more and that unfortunately leaves less room in the market for domestic cups. It could change in the future but something radical probably needs to happen.

 

So to get back to the original question, no the Champions League hasn't 'ruined' domestic football which is arguably as vibrant and exciting as it's ever been, but it is part of a raft of changes that have incontrovertibly altered the sport in this country at the top level. 

But that does not make it a result of the CL.  You could just as easily blame globalisation and the fact that the big leagues, as a result of the local TV revenue, now attracts all the best players from the diminishing leagues. In the 'old' days it was the Italian League which had the best TV rights and attracted all the players as a result.

 

The PL and the CL are two sides of the same coin, both so awash with money that getting there and staying there is the be all and end all, ahead of both domestic cups and the Europa League. Both were the result of the bigger clubs wanting to pull the ladder up, keep most of the money for themselves, and to hell with the rest. FFP was another blatant attempt at closing off the one remaining way for a club to break into the elite. Lucky for us that we got in just before the ladder went up, but we could just as easily have been on the other side, condemned to being mid table/group stage cannon fodder for the better teams.

To get the topic back on track.

 

How many of those in the discussion remember the old European Cup format, the old Uefa Cup format?

 

The European nights back then were just as good if not better back then, it wasn't all designed as a cash cow, if you lost over 2 legs that was it you were out!

 

These days football is a business nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

You also only got to see highlights of the earlier games and they only showed the semi-final and final live (IIRC)

 

All the other games, certainly those involving overseas teams could only be read about it a small column of the morning papers.

 

I don't see how that is better myself.

Why would I come up to the North-East? Seriously? I'm not going to do it just to talk to you, I'm obviously not going to do it for any other reason, and I'm busy this weekend so am unlikely to cancel plans.

 

When I say to people similar stuff, it's usually based on meeting them at a point of common interest - a Chelsea match. That's because I understand it's easier to combine this stuff with an activity you're already doing (like sitting in the Prince of Wales with mates before a match) rather than specifically going out of your way to meet somebody for 'words'. That to me is a little sad (no offence). So why don't you wait until the fixture list is out, book the time off from your weekend job, download google maps and then arrange to meet me at a pub near the ground where I'll already be. Isn't that far more sensible?

 

I can assure you, I don't need google maps to find any of the pubs in the Fulham Broadway area, I was drinking in them since you were holding your daddys hand scared of the police horses while waiting for the first train home after leaving 5 minutes early, so you didin't see any hooligans!

 

These days football is a business nothing more, nothing less.

If there was to be any doubt, see Blatter and co!

I can assure you, I don't need google maps to find any of the pubs in the Fulham Broadway area, I was drinking in them since you were holding your daddys hand scared of the police horses while waiting for the first train home after leaving 5 minutes early, so you didin't see any hooligans!

 

We used to drive up and park on the Embankment but, ok. Hope that doesn't alter that little fantasy you've got going there too much.

 

But look, if you want to 'sort these issues out' then pick a home match next season, ask your boss a day off from your weekend job and we'll arrange it. I'm obviously not going to go up to your neck of the woods this summer because, well it's the summer. We're both Chelsea supporters, we'll both have an interest in going to the Bridge and you can see how much it's changed in recent years. Ok?

 

Any other issues, feel free to PM me. It's just boring people now.

You also only got to see highlights of the earlier games and they only showed the semi-final and final live (IIRC)

 

All the other games, certainly those involving overseas teams could only be read about it a small column of the morning papers.

 

I don't see how that is better myself.

 

Good point, but with the digital media explosion we've had in the last 10 years could we not have expected all the games to be shown if the format had remained the same??

 

Genuine question.

Good point, but with the digital media explosion we've had in the last 10 years could we not have expected all the games to be shown if the format had remained the same??

Genuine question.

Raises an interesting point SP. It may be memory fog, or nostalgia, but I feel I saw more footie when there were fewer viewing platforms as it were.

Edited May 28, 201511 yr by Droogba

To get the topic back on track.

How many of those in the discussion remember the old European Cup format, the old Uefa Cup format?

The European nights back then were just as good if not better back then, it wasn't all designed as a cash cow, if you lost over 2 legs that was it you were out!

These days football is a business nothing more, nothing less.

the league format is all about money and is getting more and more tedious, the top seeds invariably go through. get back to straight knock outs .

We used to drive up and park on the Embankment but, ok. Hope that doesn't alter that little fantasy you've got going there too much.

 

But look, if you want to 'sort these issues out' then pick a home match next season, ask your boss a day off from your weekend job and we'll arrange it. I'm obviously not going to go up to your neck of the woods this summer because, well it's the summer. We're both Chelsea supporters, we'll both have an interest in going to the Bridge and you can see how much it's changed in recent years. Ok?

 

Any other issues, feel free to PM me. It's just boring people now.

 

Yes I work weekends, well done for noticing!

 

I've been to the bridge in recent years and guess what I paid for it myself, daddy didn't even buy me a programme.

 

On the issue of boring people, yes you are, in fact you've been boring people for months but you're too thick skinned (stupid) to have realised that.

 

I'll see you at that home game, don't forget to bring your keyboard so you feel brave.

Oh lordy, not ground hog daze.

It seems as though this discussion is focussing more on the commercialisation and globalisation of the game. The Champions League is more a by-product of that then a driving force in altering the domestic game.

 

But football has been a business for as long as you'd probably care to go back. I remember reading about us signing William Foulkes to play in goal, whose gargantuan size (they'd stick ballboys next to him to accentuate this) was something of an attraction to get paying fans in.

 

If we're going back that far, isn't our club's very founding based on a need to fill a stadium and make money? I think it's hard to say that commercialisation of the game started in 1992, but it went into overdrive then.

Good point, but with the digital media explosion we've had in the last 10 years could we not have expected all the games to be shown if the format had remained the same??

 

Genuine question.

 

 

I think , even with the old format, it would have been the premier competition in Europe so, yes, no doubt all the games would have been shown live.

I think , even with the old format, it would have been the premier competition in Europe so, yes, no doubt all the games would have been shown live.

 

But as soon as you have the media companies getting involved and the subsequent revenues, all parties would have looked to have expanded the competition. 

But as soon as you have the media companies getting involved and the subsequent revenues, all parties would have looked to have expanded the competition. 

 

Quite - the Champions League was inevitable. As you have said, people want to see all the best teams playing not necessarily the champions.

Such a breathtaking lack of self awareness.

Completly agree, quite a few people on here with that complaint.

You also only got to see highlights of the earlier games and they only showed the semi-final and final live (IIRC)

 

All the other games, certainly those involving overseas teams could only be read about it a small column of the morning papers.

 

I don't see how that is better myself.

Don't remember seeing a European Cup Semi Final in the 70's and 80's. After 1992 yes definitely. 

It's not the point that they weren't televised then, it still doesn't change the fact that for many of us the old structure was better. Fact is if the three competitions still existed they'd be all televised now.

Also when we on the Cup Winners Cup in 1998 I specifically remember watching that run on Channel 5 and I'm pretty sure that was all our matches that were televised.

Do you know, I hate to admit it (and maybe this will mark me as a bad fan to some) but I cannot remember watching the final in 1998.  Was it on tv?  Maybe up here in the sticks we couldn't get Channel 5,  Or maybe it was because I had 3 children under 7 so can't remember anything from those days.  I do remember hearing that we'd won it the next morning but not watching it.

^ I think the final was on BBC for some reason, even though Channel 5 had shown all the other matches.

^ I think the final was on BBC for some reason, even though Channel 5 had shown all the other matches.

 

Oh dear!  I hang my head in shame even more!  Look, I was a zombie, probably not knowing what day it was.......... Tbh it's just as likely I watched it and don't remember it.

Oh dear!  I hang my head in shame even more!  Look, I was a zombie, probably not knowing what day it was.......... Tbh it's just as likely I watched it and don't remember it.

 

Well I remember absolutely nothing about the match except Zola came on as a sub and scored 10 seconds later. And I know I watched it!

^ I think the final was on BBC for some reason, even though Channel 5 had shown all the other matches.

Yeah I think you're right about that

Sone of my favourite memories watching that Cup Winners Cup run, sat in my kitchen at home watching the matches on this small TV.